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Apr 08, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35
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#21 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
I referred the thread to moderation because i disagreed with the manner in which screenshots of guilds were being posted, the decision to close the thread was made when a moderator could see that the thread had barely even progressed from the posts on the first page. Its no wonder people are coming into these threads to bait you into derailing them. You fell for it. Dont make the mistake again. You have got to stop trying to convince people that ranger spike needs balancing, you already believe it, some others believe it too, work on your solution and sell it to Anet. IF they are reading, and IF they care, they might take heed of your constructive feedback. You arent going to convince everyone that it is overpowered, some might even disagree with you for the hell of it just to piss you off... its a public forum and thats a fact you need to adapt to. Just think, how long did it take for ritspike to finally get nerfed? Work with the people who will help to contribute to your thread. If other people feel the need to flame you and post unreasonable comments just refer them to moderation. If people come on and just disagree with you without resorting to flames, let them, just dont believe you can convince everyone of them to your way of thinking. You've got some posters providing you with some material to work on, you got some posters disagreeing on specific elements of rspike you think need nerfing. The closed thread also has a few posts where people tried to identify the problems with rspike. All you need to do now is to consolidate these ideas and try to form a consensus among those who think something needs to be balanced so that you can come up with a set of skill balance changes that will help to reduce the power of rspike (but not to nerf it into oblivion). After you feel you have done that, its up to you whether or not you try to convince everyone else that those changes are necessary. But be warned, some just wont agree with you no matter what you say or do. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01
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#22 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I once again agree and disagree. I doubt the fact me posting screenies derailed the thread. I know I shouldn't have mentioned names...
Anyways, I ALREADY Pm'ed holy to delete the posts from ciriq. You're not going to tell me his posts are constructive. It's basic QQ-don't nerf rspike, and this time I'm not engaging. I anwser apropriatly, and my Original Posts still stands... ALL the nerfs I would like to see are in there, and I'm still waiting for the posts that will actually proof me wrong in some nerfs (As in, they would hurt other builds)... (Not to fight, but rather to work out a compromise) So I would like to make this posts as a quick recap: I still stand by my updates in the first post, BUT: -> Leadership does need a nerf, but it is in fact NOT needed to tome Rspike down. -> Savage Shot is indeed not needed once the other nerfs have taken place, yet I have always found the Savage/Dshot combo a bit broken. (Non-Elite PD) Yet, I'm willing to compromise with keeping this skill untouched, IF the other nerfs show sufficient... -> Brutal Weapon nerf will NOT hurt HB (Which is the only other format where it sees play). Further posting on this skill will be concidered spamming, and will get reported to the moderator for deletion. -> "Make Haste!": See Leadership This doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see these skills (Which arn't necessary to kill rspike) nerfed aswell, in order to shift meta a bit, and get rid of the 1 year old legoway, to replace it with something more fresh... Last edited by Killed u man; Apr 08, 2008 at 05:05 PM // 17:05.. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11
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#23 | ||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
It is far easier to put a ele into an HA build then a para, there is just more damand for a extra snare or more aoe (in most builds) it is for this reason that most SMART balnce groups are seen running e/p's alot for the song+make haste. AND THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE, you should be fored to go /p in order to get the better speed buff. Why? because the para line is a PARTY BUFFING LINE. It is all about buffing other team member, not itself, so should paragons have the better buffing skills as long as they are other member party buffing skills. The skill is balance, as is windborn, no change needs to be made to it. Am im pretty sure i divert make haste all the time when i mesmer, its not hard, paragons use it every 10seconds exacly when they are just standing there shouting and being bored. And back to ur comment about rt spike, i said it goes threw SB, MEANING, sb hits and the infuse hits, i guess u didnt follow the math 14-16 over 60 damaging spells, 1/2 are going to get reduced by SB, the rest are up to the infuse to save, and the spikes COULD still go threw SB and Infuse, thats why it was IMBA. Quote:
savage+d-shot, yeah a 2skill, no fc 1/2(or more) second, blockable, dodgable, and easy avoidable PD. that is SOOO IMBA. im sorry, i just find it funny someone who obviously has no clue about what they are talking about makeing sugestions to change this game. I defend my points time after time, not to flame, but to point out how obviosly idiotic ur statments are, lrn2logic. and please, how is leadership broken?! GFTE and watchyourself were.. yes. but not leader ship its self Anyway here we go again, since u seem to ginore me every other time.. Brutal: belive it or not some people don't run meta HB builds and still run brutal, nerfing it will total kill the skill, and it will not be able to even come close to holding its weight vr orders. Forked/Dual: I see no reaon so total kill 2 skills, the idea behing forked when it was created was to create a realy strong ranger attack that requires skill and can be shut down skilfully. Kind like bulls strike in a od way, you only use it on a moveing foe, how do u avoid it? you stop. Forked, can only used if ur not geting proted or hexed, how to u avoid it? hex the guy using forked. Hexbreaker: Again, top 100 gvgers run it on b-surge eles, monks, warriors when u spec for hexes in ATs, nerfing it is a bad idea, and wont hurt r-spike in the least (see DoD spike.) Sloths, sloths is actualy a very good skill, not use much out of r-spike, but i have seen a limited number of GvG ranger run it to spike with at stand. Savage: err i think ive been there, it will totaly kill GvG rangers, and any kind of other ranger other then r-spike, save+dshot is far from IMBA, im failing to see where you get that. Make hatse: It fits the paragon line extreamly well as a party buffing skill, no reason to nerf as i stated above. Dual: Its already pretty bad, why nerf it more, it is only used for r-spike because its been nerfed so hard (because of r-spike) Thats it, might have missed some skills but im to lazy atm to look back. There is no argument, r-spike isnt IMBA, but sugest nerfs all you want, i will just keep trashing your ideas, and you will keep making a fool out of yourself because it is very obvious that u lack experience at playing"balanced" builds in this game. (note there was no flaming, no need to erase my post, everything was legit and a counter argument. thanx, plz don't QQ about me just flaming, read what i say, maybe you will learn something about this game.) Last edited by Ciric; Apr 08, 2008 at 05:24 PM // 17:24.. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21
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#24 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Lament of the Phoenix [LotP]
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I don't see how a paragon can be so bad that he just let his make haste gets diverted, he has almost nothing to do, so he should be able to whatch that.
I agree on Ciric about the PD svage/dshot thing though. I also want to ask everyone to be a little but more friendlier at discussing, would be cool. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32
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#25 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ign: Muffins Floozy
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
As to a nerf on forked arrow the skill is truely not overpowered a simple hex or enchant ruins it. Also a enchant on a ranger causes the ranger to lack a large portion of damage already by negating brutal and second arrow from forked. These 2 skills work well together but are very conditional already no need to nerf them when they are already conditional to a simple enchant that is unavoidable with pressure. Also hexbreaker will not matter if you make a stance. most people who run hexbreaker dont run any other stance on a ranger anyways making it a pointless nerf to try to make rspike less powerful. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39
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#26 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I will just ignore 80% of what you posted and reply to the few "good" statements you made:
I'm NOT saying we should nerf "Make Haste!" into oblivion...When did I say, please quote... I'm merely saying to tome it down: Making it 25% would mean windborne makes them move faster AT THE COST that it is stripable, and easily interruptable (C1). This way, we actually have an alternative.It's not healthy for a game to only have 1 style of play, and that is /P atm. We can fix this by thing either 2 things: Nerf "Make Haste!", as I said, toming this down, will indirectly buff Storm Djinns/Flame Djinss and Windborne. Buff other Speed Buffs: Longer Duration on Windborne... Off Topic-------------------------------------------- Don't read unless you're in for some math Ritspike never went trough Spirit Bond, don't pull random statements out of thin air and try and dictate them upon other people. If you want the Math: 7 Spikers with (Spirit) Burn, (Wielder's) Strike and Lam (entation). Burn was always the follow-up, in other words: Strike => Burn, Lam => Burn. IF you had to kill the target with the follow up, like you claim, there was 1.75 seconds IN BETWEEN the pulses. Meaning your infuser has: 0.5 natural Reaction (Assumign U have a slow infuser), 0.25 activation = 0.75 Seconds. 1.75 - 0.75 (Infuse time) = 1 Second. Meaning your infuser has (had, RIP You have 7 Packets of 126 Damage (Wielders), which is 882 damage. This WAS in fact enough to kill someone TROUGH a shield, BUT NOT ENOUGH to kill trough SB. SB stops the next 10 spells, 96 at 14: 96 x 7= 672. Then assuming we count in the follow up (as you said): 3 x 96 damage (Only 3 spells "left" on the SB)= 288. Your 7 Spirit Burns will hit for 770 (Not 100% on how much Burn did, but I think it was 110) and you will (as said before) have 3 packet-prots left, so it gets reduced by 288. Now let's calculate WHAT we actually have left as damage (assuming the infuser doesn't heal, and only sprirt bond was on the target: 886 + 770 - 672 - 288= 696 damage. This can ONLY spike a 60 AL target, WITHOUT a shield down. (AND EVERYONE has a shield). This also assumes the infuser is afk... The reason why ritspike got nerfed, is because you couldn't kill them. They had 7 healers in their build, and often some wards aswell. It only got nerfed because it was becomming a problem in GvG. End Off Topic----------------------------------------------------- Savage Shot and Dshot ARE blockable BUT they are interrupts aswell. In other words, you could use Aegis or Guardian as the excuse for them not being overpowered. But that might aswell be the reason why they are. Seing they can easily Dshot these blocks. NO, I'M NOT SHOUTING FOR A NERF IN THESE SKILLS. I would merely like everyone to atleast acknowledge there is something wrong with these skills. (But they require skill to use, SO I wouldn't touch these aswell - Don't forget, it's not because something requires skill to run, it isn't OP...) Can we PLEASE drop the Savage Shot nerf? I already said it 4 times now: IT ONLY IS A SECONDARY NERF, WHEN THE FIRST ONES DON'T SHOW SUFFICIENT ENOUGH. EDIT: Reply to random: The skill WASN'T OP when Brutal wasn't around. (No-one knew the skill yet) WHY do you think it has the -no enchant/hex clause-? Simply to keep it in line (Becuase Dual Shot was already so OP, could you only imagine if they didn't have the -25% penalty) so it wouldn't get stacked with: OoP/OoV... Anet forgot about this skill when they buffed Brutal Weapon tough, thus now ending up with an endless ammount of +XX damage factors to every Arrow. An echant on the ranger relies on your team tough, also don't forget these rangers often have Lightening Reflexes, which is an insta-prot, and enables monks to get away with a simple red bar go up... The spiking power from Rspike is most definatly OP, and atm the most obvious nerf would be hitting the stacking of Damage factors... This means no more Dual Arrow skills +XX Damage skills. If you want to buff your arrows, that's fine, just don't allow every buff to count DOUBLE because of Dual Arrow skills... Last edited by Killed u man; Apr 08, 2008 at 05:49 PM // 17:49.. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41
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#27 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Guild: Leteci is [sexy]
Profession: Mo/
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There is little point in changing things, people will always find a way to find some other lame shit. the game is flawed. it's not really any good for proper competitive play.
The attitude of the person that goes into the shop and buys guildwars isn't really a super competitive one. Hell, even when I come from pro-gaming to go to guildwars. I did it when I had lost the majority of my drive to be any good at gaming as I saw it a waste of space. People may see a flashy emote and until they develop emotion enough to care what some person thinks online they don't care how they get it. Give up already... Miraculously I could be a 10 times better player from changing my internet so I no longer had 500 ping... Needless to say, no one would believe this. Why? Yay, guildwars doesn't support demo functions or ping, or tournaments on leagues, or lan play. Infact, guild wars supports very little... The only thing it supports is crap people with crap micro and crap dexterity to eventually gain some empathy from like minded crap people in the games own dead league made from broken skills with broken administration. I got like most of my fame from balance. For what? I hate to use the phrase 'who cares', but seriously. Quit the game for a few months, go play something properly competitive and then really ask yourself if guildwars matters if you play a broken r-spike, iway or balance... It doesn't. So, why change the skills? Break them more. Passive is a suicidal chav (chris crockers worst nightmare). Leteci is sexy peaches is a fat RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO chamalee likes little girls Ioo gold per heal sucks at game and is a wanna be clareice starling <3. and i never used mic, always lied about my rank, and never needed to show title. So for all you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO suckers that say you need high rank to join groups... No you don't. You need an attitude. Tell r12's they suck when you play with them and don't stop criticizing them! Their enemies will invite you to play with them <3. guildwars 101. P.S sissy girl is win. P.P.S I own you all @ q4 ut99, 2003, 2004, 2007 sof2 qw q3 q4 wc3 cod1,2, 4 cs 1.6 cs;s promod ggkthxbai. Last edited by elektra_lucia; Apr 08, 2008 at 05:56 PM // 17:56.. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33
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#28 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I'm not against a slight windborn buff and other run buffs, however, none should be as good as Make haste due to the nature of the profession.
also, the fact that brutal + orders get an extra hit is rather minimal to r-spike, in fact with dual shot, the brutal/orders doesn't even make up for the lack of power the skill has. I'm not saying the extra arrow isn't nice damage, but the +15ish u get is only +45 over 3 spikers. And on ur math for rt spike your forgetting the dual damage packets, and the fact that no mater what ur ping is there is also lag to server and shit that u don't count in, a 1 sec follow up is actualy ABOUT the time that good infuser hit the button, and if can go threw both. I've seen it.. anyway moot point we both agree it was IMBA because it was hard as RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO to acutaly kill with 7 healers getting rune buffs on spike skills AND heal skills. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46
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#29 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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It isn't +45 Damage...
Assuming you run your rit with a superior (Which is advisory for more damage, longer weapons AND extra HP from Vital, which gives U some hP back you spend for the Superior), Damage will be +16... You have 9 Arrows total, and after the nerf you will in fact have 6. Meaning total damage will have been reduced by: *Grabs his team builder Rspike build and starts calculations* 3R 1P 1Rt 3Mo +18 From Glass Arrows +16 From Brutal Weapon +6 From Favorable Winds +5 From Vamps ------------------ +45 per Arrow => 45*3 = 135 Damage Reduction This should be enough on the damage side to actually NOT clean spike trough Shield and Harm... 4R 1P 1N 2 Mo +10 From Read The Wind +17 From OoV (Let's assume we want max spike damage) +6 From Favorable Winds +5 From Vamps ------------------ +38 per Arrow => 38*4 = 152 Damage Reduction This spike will still be quite strong, and thus maybe secondary nerfs will have to follow... *And Electric Lucia needs some professional help Imo* |
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Apr 08, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55
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#30 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2007
Profession: Mo/Me
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You can mark this as spam, but i can care less. Borat, give up already. No one cares about your wannabe "Nerfs" so you can beat r spike. Its obviously about skilled players and 2 monks that know wtf they are doing. You've made a fool out of yourself these past two threads, and as far as i think everyone is concerned, we all think your an idiot. Quit QQing about nerfs because clearly all the nerfs you want will change the entire metagame including GvG. Simple nerfs can be accepted, but sadly enough, for you, Guild Wars isnt only about HA.
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Apr 08, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21
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#31 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Lament of the Phoenix [LotP]
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Stop posting like this and say what you think of the build were it is about and what you think should change or not change and why. |
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Apr 08, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30
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#32 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2007
Profession: Mo/Me
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Apr 08, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59
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#33 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Apr 08, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50
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#34 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Great Soviet California!
Guild: Deputy Glitter's Shoe Squad [ghey]
Profession: Me/
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Apr 09, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57
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#35 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I would nerf channeling. |
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Apr 09, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09
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#36 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Most spikes at some point or another were imba, and people desired a nerf for them. In this case of r-spike, I think buffing counters (small and usable once) is the answer, instead of nerfing damage. Perhaps changes to skills like shields up, WoW (weapon of warding, lowered casting time, lowered duration, etc.) along these lines.
However, in my opinion, the whole situation of HA is what is mainly causing players to be disgruntled, not this particular gimmick/build. At least if we are going to ask for changes, lets make them worthwhile in order to make HA actually fun again if they are going to spend time at it at all. |
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Apr 09, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58
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#37 | ||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Oct 2006
Profession: E/Mo
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Apr 09, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10
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#38 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: France
Profession: Me/
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It wouldn't cause harm to rest of pvp/pve imo |
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Apr 09, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03
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#39 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Profession: P/
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Apr 09, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33
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#40 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New York
Guild: Vanquishing Memories [VM]
Profession: Mo/Me
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