Curse

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Feb 23, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Well, of course people ab just for something to do, but when practicing (for gvg -cough-) it does have certain advantages for certain classes.

For example: Cripshot ranger/Any other sort of role involving snare.
One important idea behind these is controlling/slowing/influencing enemy movement. In RA/TA/HA, its relatively small maps, and two of those three are 4v4 arena's. A cripshot ranger in-training might find it easier to train in ab because of the large maps, with differentiating elevations and lots of targets. It also helps that the main goal is capping, because in order to cap you have to move, and movement control is one thing you're trying to work on.

Are there any other sorts of uses for AB sort of like the above one?

P.S. Yes I know ab is 12 lunatics vs 12 lunatics. On a side note: the double AB weekend is bringing out all the (super) noobs (like noobs didnt ab before) and the FFF'ers.
This makes crip shot especially fun, nothin like a "RUNRUN NUB!!11 OMG COWARD!11" to give you a sense of accomplishment (even though you didnt kill your target).

EDIT: They moved it. D:

Keekles · Feb 23, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Cripshot is incredibly fun in ABs. Probably one of my favorite classes to use in ABs. I've killed countless warriors that just kept trying to run at me even though they're limping and I'm shooting them with arrows :/

Shuuda · Feb 23, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

P.S. Yes I know ab is 12 Idiots that cannot play this game vs 12 Idiots that cannot play this game.

Fixed for the win.

Sakura Az · Feb 23, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

omg i agree, cripshot is amazingly fun in AB.

ab useless? i love ab personaly, its about the highest form of pvp i do.. hmm i guess that would make it the only pvp i do.

The Daemon Warrior · Feb 23, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Ye AB is fun

Agreed there you'll encounter people who dont have a clue what they're doing (like if you say CAP they reply: "Asshole! Dont listen to him guys the only way to get points is by killing people i swear!"), but still its a lot of fun

Abedeus · Feb 23, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakura Az

omg i agree, cripshot is amazingly fun in AB.

ab useless? i love ab personaly, its about the highest form of pvp i do.. hmm i guess that would make it the only pvp i do.

It just means that you don't do any pvp. AB is a quasi-pve thingie, where 12 people trying to sync will wtfpwnzor 12 idiots that are randomed worse than randomway at HA.

erk · Feb 23, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

A good thing with AB is that the max title looks achievable, unlike the Gladiator title that A.net totally screwed over. Also the Balth faction per hour seems better than in TA or RA, expecially on this double points weekend which made me dust off my AB builds, and actually played quite a few games.

bathazard · Feb 23, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

It just means that you don't do any pvp. AB is a quasi-pve thingie, where 12 people trying to sync will wtfpwnzor 12 idiots that are randomed worse than randomway at HA.

lol randomways owns what you talking about fool? j/jk
ab 's not bad but its not great. i use it to farm balth faction for the skills i want which i get from tomes! though only with guildies 3 nukers and a monk = gg. noobs vs guildies = ahh u can figure it out.

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 23, 2008, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Here's what I know.

When I wanted to learn magebane for TA, I didn't go and play magebane in AB. I went and spoke to every talented magebane that I knew, then ground fifty glad points in RA, then I ground another fifty points in TA. After missing every important skill in the book about six billion times, of which about half those are Res Signets, I finally learned how to prioritize targets, hit important skills consistently, and prevent another team from ressing.

When I wanted to learn how to infuse and spirit transfer in HA, I didn't go and play infuse in AB. I read every article in the HA forum about catching spikes, then I asked good friends if they'd be willing to put up with me, then I went and painstakingly ground fame with them. After missing about eight hundred thousand spikes, I finally learned how to catch directional and shadowstep spikes with fair consistency, and I seldom drop the ball on adrenal spikes.

So, if I wanted to learn Cripshot in GvG, you're saying that I should go into AB and snare trailing or isolated wammos whose entire group isn't likely to notice or care that he's snared, and then watch said wammo try and catch me while he degens to death? You're saying that I should spend my time in AB d-shotting fire eles who are likely to try and cast meteor shower on me, even if I'm in the most open part of the Jade Sea, and both of us are the only people in compass range?

To be frank, I think this is just another thinly veiled attack on the format masquerading as a legitimate argument. People should play AB because they want to play AB. Not for "practice," not for faction, not for ego, not for rank.

bathazard · Feb 23, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

lol you sound pissed off, but hey your way is your way and some people do things diffrent. Some people don't have 'contacts' and there fore have to learn to be good without doing things like ha! so because you have friends in high places dosen't mean you can't practise in ab. How is it diffrent that figuring out how to interupt if its agisnt a ele in ab or ha?

Pyro maniac · Feb 23, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathazard

lol randomways owns what you talking about fool? j/jk
ab 's not bad but its not great. i use it to farm balth faction for the skills i want which i get from tomes! though only with guildies 3 nukers and a monk = gg. noobs vs guildies = ahh u can figure it out.

you should bring an obs tank as well

Turbobusa · Feb 23, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Except for split characters or with snare ability, AB isn't the place to practise. First, training on noobs isn't exactly training. And if the build you're training on isn't prepared for splitting, you'll end up doing nothing much and won't be better than all the noobs described in here.

Just as a note:

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless guy

Asshole! Dont listen to him guys the only way to get points is by killing people i swear!

Don't come here and bash AB for the fun of it. I never heard that and if you did, please tell me what was the ratio of the time you actually encountered this kind of reaction and the time where people repeated "CAP!!!1ZOMG NOOBS!!!" (failing nonetheless)

bathazard · Feb 23, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

why?...... its ab for goodness sake?
directed at pyro...

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 23, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

bathazard, so you ask this one question: How is it different, figuring out how to interrupt, if it's against an ele in AB or HA?

An ele in AB is dumb enough to stand in front of you and cast meteor shower, even if they've watched you use PD, you're the only other person in compass range, and you're in the center of the flattest part of the Jade Sea. In the same respect, you can replace the interrupt with diversion (which you should have anyways), and the Meteor Shower with Searing Flames, and they're going to watch you cast diversion, wait five seconds, and blast Searing Flames at you. They're content to spend an entire match camping their energy and enchanting staff.

A decent ele in HA isn't going to let you do that shit. They're not going to bring crappy five second cast skills, they're going to cast on 40/40 sets, and if they're part of some insanely heavy AoE setup that requires a PD mesmer to start camping the eles so their team doesn't blow up, they're hopefully not going to just merrily blow diversion on Mind Blast and let you nonchalantly interrupt their AoEs. And frankly, in the grand scheme of things, if you're playing PD in HA, you're probably doing more important things than just camping some dumbass ele.

As Turbobusa put it, AB isn't a place to practice. Training on noobs isn't exactly training.

Syntonic · Feb 23, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Movement, positioning and maybe overall general tactics is the only thing you can really get decent practice and a feel for in AB. You can also learn the basics of each class and generally how the bar works but you'll hardly have to cancel cast for example. That isn't to say that there aren't good players in AB - there are times where you WILL have to cancel cast and do whatever tricks you know to have your team survive. People with champ titles or whatever aren't entirely rare in AB and there's even a gold cape now and then (not talking about guilds who sold theirs) so it isn't full of scrubs all the time. There are other decent players as well but it's a needle in the haystack.

Tactics you mainly learn in AB all have to do with movement really - knowing when to retreat back to shrines or when to press into one, changing your route, recognizing and tagging priority targets in a sea of enemies (it's surprising how people just outright ignore bonders or whatever), getting an idea of the energy level of your backline and how to react accordingly, etc. helps you realize the larger picture at hand no matter where you are playing. You'll also grasp the basics such as kiting (OMG U NOOB RUNNER!!!), communication (even if it's not voice chat and rather just calling targets, hexes, whatever and map drawings) and target switching (healing hands riposte tank anyone?). Positioning is hardly ever punished until whenever you decide to turn around and face the mob with the sole intent of stopping or completely killing them. The latter is highly improbable (though there are some games...) but the former is achievable depending on how bad the opposing team is but positioning matters more there when there is mass AoEs, melee trains on your soft targets (monk bash!), etc. so there is a lot of damage mitigation/choosing the right targets/etc. that you need to be doing. If you ever happen to face a decent or even a good balanced group of 4, you'll find it works out much like TA until the deaths start or if another group backs either you or the opposing team.

The problem with all of the above is that you really need people with the like mindset and have a decent pvp background to guide you properly or do a lot of reading on forums and the like if you are just starting out or you'll end up being a total scrub (earth tanks with stone daggers pew pew pew.) It's suffers the same issues that RA faces mainly due to the players themselves unfortunately. If you want to improve with any given individual bar, TA would be a better place to go - you'll grasp the basics much like AB but some of the other things aren't stressed as much in TA. TA is also filled with scrubs too but you'll also find more solid players to test your skills against and learn from there.

I don't really get the totally negative view of AB when even in lower end GvG, you'll run up against power attack wammos and heroway (we ran into power attack wammos the other night in GvG.) Certainly, it's far more rare in GvG (well, maybe not heroway as that is somewhat common) when compared to lower arenas (duh) so I can't see anyone taking AB seriously ever but it doesn't deserve as much negative press as it gets currently. Bottom line - you can only learn as much as you are willing to put in to any given format. Any experience in one given format will never translate 1:1 into another pvp format.

This is all coming from a scrub though so take it with a grain of salt.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Feb 23, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

bathazard, so you ask this one question: How is it different, figuring out how to interrupt, if it's against an ele in AB or HA?

An ele in AB is dumb enough to stand in front of you and cast meteor shower, even if they've watched you use PD, you're the only other person in compass range, and you're in the center of the flattest part of the Jade Sea. In the same respect, you can replace the interrupt with diversion (which you should have anyways), and the Meteor Shower with Searing Flames, and they're going to watch you cast diversion, wait five seconds, and blast Searing Flames at you. They're content to spend an entire match camping their energy and enchanting staff.

A decent ele in HA isn't going to let you do that shit. They're not going to bring crappy five second cast skills, they're going to cast on 40/40 sets, and if they're part of some insanely heavy AoE setup that requires a PD mesmer to start camping the eles so their team doesn't blow up, they're hopefully not going to just merrily blow diversion on Mind Blast and let you nonchalantly interrupt their AoEs. And frankly, in the grand scheme of things, if you're playing PD in HA, you're probably doing more important things than just camping some dumbass ele.

As Turbobusa put it, AB isn't a place to practice. Training on noobs isn't exactly training.

As much as I hate to say it, ab isnt ONLY noobs, and theres aspects of it you can use to train that dont depend on the other players experience level. As I said, capping: from hamstorms too mending wammo's, they can all cap with a fairly even level of consistency (besides nukers, which obviously cap the fastest), and because of these you can train on stopping them from capping. Which way is this group gonna go? Which one looks to be the most vital for capping? Which shrine can protect it self most from a cap and therefore should receive the least protection?

Example: Group (seemingly a organized group, fairly balanced and not mobbing) heading to the ele shrine. I find a nice cliff and cripshot the monk at the last second as the rest of the group hits speedboosts. The other three are at the shine before they've got the chance to realize how far behind the monk is. Boom Booom Boom, 2 Dead shock wars and a dead splinter rit.

neoflame · Feb 23, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

Example: Group (seemingly a organized group, fairly balanced and not mobbing) heading to the ele shrine. I find a nice cliff and cripshot the monk at the last second as the rest of the group hits speedboosts. The other three are at the shine before they've got the chance to realize how far behind the monk is. Boom Booom Boom, 2 Dead shock wars and a dead splinter rit.

Noobs on good builds are still noobs.

wuzzman · Feb 23, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

AB consist of running around in circles, avoiding skirmishes, and killing AI as you go. Funny thing is, this shit is more competitive then HA right now, well unless your everything but a kurz ^_^

bungusmaximus · Feb 24, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Not entirely avoiding, defending shrines can lead to skirmishes. It's risky because skirmishess cost time, but you have to sometimes. Personally AB is the only thing I do nowadays. I can't stomach HA at all, there's a lot of scrubs in there as well, difference is they all think they are the shit 'cos they got fame :P.
I think AB doesn't have anything to do with other formats, it's a little like GvG because you have plenty of room (which I like a lot) but thats the only thing imo. There's no DP, no VoD, no lord (at least, no lord you can actually kill ^^). AB is buying time, and cornering other players (why go in if you can go around) and keeping as much area under your side's control as possible. It's certainly no practice arena for me, I prefer RA for that because you're in a game in a breeze, and it's much easier there to keep track of what's happening.
Don't entirely know if I like the OP's tone to begin with, to me it looks like hidden ab bashing after all because the man has little else to say that I already know, but meh.

moriz · Feb 24, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

AB trains movement and positioning.

incidently, movement and positioning is what this game is all about, if you remove builds, map objectives, and other superficial fluff.

therefore, AB train the most fundamental basics of the game, which is important if you want to get better at it.