Curse

Red Sand · Apr 27, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkingofaname

Anyhow, here are my golden rules to AB.

All your allies are retards unless proven otherwise, if you want to get something done do it yourself.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkingofaname

If you arent capping, chances are no one else is.

If you are fighting, you are losing. Instead you cap, you gank, you run.

All your builds should have some ways to help capping and/or hinder the other side from capping, if you arent arent doing these things you are worthless as an AB player.

No argument from me. Stand, fight and lose. Although when losing by a large margin, we sometimes stand and fight on a shrine and make them pay to take it.

Quote:

When it comes to a battle, kill NPC first, Monks second, Cappers (AoEers) third, everything else dont matter.

My guild runs an AB team, usually a warrior and a monk, with midline support. Our targeting priority generally puts Casters above Healers. I put Assassins pretty high on my list too, cause I don't like it when they try to kill my healer. Otherwise, good stuff. I hope you're on my side!

Boogz · Apr 27, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

AB is fine with shrines, it just needs to be 1 party of 12 players instead of 3 of 4 players

moriz · Apr 28, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

AB is fine with shrines, it just needs to be 1 party of 12 players instead of 3 of 4 players

and if one of those players connects in late, it will lag all 12 people instead of 4? no thanks.

one of the chief reasons for 3 teams of 4, imo, is because the game will be absolutely unplayable given anet's current server setup.

Bobby2 · Apr 28, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

C'mon Moriz, 8 against 12 is just as lost. Besides, it works for Quarry and Aspenwood

But PvP chars can't come tharr

Naylyn · Apr 28, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

^Yeah they can, talk to the NPCs in the Great Temple of Balthazar.

Bobby2 · Apr 28, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

me = pwnt.
argument = pwnt.

Everyone whining about lack of slaughterfests: shame on you

MasterSasori · Apr 29, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkingofaname

If AB needs a change, I would like to see smarter AIs (lol what are the chances). Instead of dying in 10 secs from AoE, or farmed for free with a long/flatbow, the NPCs should scatter and come out agressively and try to do as much damage to the player as possible. Also, I would like to see monk followers spawning constantly from base, so each team is self sufficent and the difference of team with monk vs team with no monk isnt as great.

Wow, awesome post. I agree with basically everything except the spawning monks. I just see that as yet another reason to promote mobbing because the mentality I see is this:

1. Monk NPC follows Typical Wammo

2. Typical Wammo: yay! I have monkzorz I r using Healing Handz+Mending to pwn suxons/kurdicks.

3. Typical Wammo meets Typical Wammo 2 with exact mentality as above.

4. 30 seconds later, the worthless Wammos are not dead but their pointless brawl has escalated because brawls lead to mobs.

This doesn't hold true if the ABers prioritize capping or if one side is significantly more skilled than the other, but other than that, this should ring a familiar tone to how the great mob of the century starts.

CagedinSanity · Apr 29, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

AB is a PvP version of a PvE storyline. Kurzicks vs. Luxon, they gain territory like a gang war.
In more modern terms, shrines = streets/blocks/whatever gangs fight over these days.

What do gangs have to fight for if they don't have those streets?

/notsigned. It makes sense how it is now.

Pyro maniac · Apr 29, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

AB is a PvP version of a PvE storyline. Kurzicks vs. Luxon, they gain territory like a gang war.
In more modern terms, shrines = streets/blocks/whatever gangs fight over these days.

What do gangs have to fight for if they don't have those streets?

/notsigned. It makes sense how it is now.

no one cares about role playing 'sense'.

AB is fine imo, the people who play it aren't. While I do like alliance battles (more depth then the arena's and even HA imo) it is number one PvP place for bad players. There should be some change to the quality of people.
Better rewards may be one, but that attracts more PvE'ers as well. Another possibility would be to add some consecutive win to it. Let the winning team stay together so the bad players get filtered out. This will either bore them to death or give them a motivation to improve their quality. Both possibilities are fine.
Two 6 vs 6 teams may help as well.

CagedinSanity · Apr 29, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

no one cares about role playing 'sense'.

AB is fine imo, the people who play it aren't. While I do like alliance battles (more depth then the arena's and even HA imo) it is number one PvP place for bad players. There should be some change to the quality of people.
Better rewards may be one, but that attracts more PvE'ers as well. Another possibility would be to add some consecutive win to it. Let the winning team stay together so the bad players get filtered out. This will either bore them to death or give them a motivation to improve their quality. Both possibilities are fine.
Two 6 vs 6 teams may help as well.

So you want continuity to be flawed just because "no one" "cares?".

The rest I agree with, more or less. Different rewards for it maybe.
I'd play it more if there was increased balth or something.

MasterSasori · Apr 29, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

no one cares about role playing 'sense'.

There are probably PvErs who would disagree and like the storyline of GW, despite how....funny it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

AB is fine imo, the people who play it aren't. While I do like alliance battles (more depth then the arena's and even HA imo) it is number one PvP place for bad players. There should be some change to the quality of people.

AB is the bottom tier of the PvP scheme of things so it only make sense that its populated with bad players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Better rewards may be one, but that attracts more PvE'ers as well.

You just answered the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Another possibility would be to add some consecutive win to it. Let the winning team stay together so the bad players get filtered out.

This sounds remarkably like HoH. You wanna screw AB as well? PvP farmers are the same as PvE farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

This will either bore them to death or give them a motivation to improve their quality. Both possibilities are fine.
Two 6 vs 6 teams may help as well.

Or AB can die and fester with triteness.

6 vs. 6 = mob mob mob mob mob mob mob mob mob

Pyro maniac · Apr 29, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

There are probably PvErs who would disagree and like the storyline of GW, despite how....funny it is.

story line isn't about logic.
I killed Shiro but he came back at nightfall, doesn't make sense however people like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

AB is the bottom tier of the PvP scheme of things so it only make sense that its populated with bad players.

And why is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

You just answered the problem.

I know ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

This sounds remarkably like HoH. You wanna screw AB as well? PvP farmers are the same as PvE farmers.

imo it is an improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Or AB can die and fester with triteness.
6 vs. 6 = mob mob mob mob mob mob mob mob mob

6+6 vs 6+6 allows better team guilds who know what they are doing (cap cap cap cap cap). Coupled with winning = staying you could get good teams pretty easy.

The Meth · Apr 29, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

AB, as it is right now, is a very complex and interesting match style. The problem is that it was targeted for the average pug straight out of PvE, who most often are dumber then npcs. I would love a real alliance battle with 12v12 arranged teams, but go and try to get Anet to add anything new when they are working on GW2.

MasterSasori · Apr 30, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

story line isn't about logic.
I killed Shiro but he came back at nightfall, doesn't make sense however people like it.

Lol. I can definitely see your point in this one, but the fact remains that GW needs any help it can get to keep its storyline going. It's not a big secret that GW's storyline isn't particularly great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

and why is that?

People aren't going to flock to high end PvP if they are uncomfortable. Many ABers are just PvE players who come for a bit of fun. You certainly don't see them in higher PvP forms such as GvG.

Since PvEers play AB for fun, its pretty reasonable that they want to win. Seeing how both sides are often populated with these people who share the same ideas and goal, AB stays afloat. How often do you see HoHers invite people with lower titles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

imo it is an improvement.

Well there is already HoH if people want that. Since it's no suprise that HoH is dead, its pretty reasonable that if AB were to follow suit, similar effects will follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

6+6 vs 6+6 allows better team guilds who know what they are doing (cap cap cap cap cap). Coupled with winning = staying you could get good teams pretty easy.

Again this is making too much like HoH. It's sad to say, but the more organize a PvP, the more builds become important and sooner or later, a general "buildwars" is going to be the result. All ABers moan and groan about how terrible pugs are, but the fact remains that they are also the reason why its so fun. Since shrines don't go above 4 pips anyway, 6 ppl at a shrine at a time is nonsensical. If you argue they should split, then it is pointless to have 6 ppl in a team anyway.

CagedinSanity · May 01, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

story line isn't about logic.
I killed Shiro but he came back at nightfall, doesn't make sense however people like it.

Pay attention. He was just sent to Abaddon's realm, as the Lich was.

Red Sand · May 01, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

AB, as it is right now, is a very complex and interesting match style. The problem is that it was targeted for the average pug straight out of PvE, who most often are dumber then npcs.

That's not a problem, it's part of the charm. AB lets people who do not regulary PvP have fun trying out PvP. AB lets people who regularly PvP have fun playing PvP. Simply enough, AB is fun PvP.

Ask the typical PvE player to join you for an AB and they will tell you that they don't play PvP because "It's not for them". The truth of the matter is, the one time they tried RA with their uber PvE toon, they died in less than 30 seconds, no one rez'd them and they got called "N00b". Left a bad taste in their mouth. They never will play again.

While they might not be the best player straight out of PvE, they might have fun, learn the difference between PvP and PvE, and come back again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I would love a real alliance battle with 12v12 arranged teams, but go and try to get Anet to add anything new when they are working on GW2.

12x12 Guild or Alliance teams would make AB a true GvG training ground. No one would be able to log on, grab a PUG and have some fun. In order to AB we'd all have to be in GvG guilds and be on schedules to with 11 Guildies in order to have hope of a win. I like the flexibility that AB allows people now. Get a couple of guildies or alliance members on your team and you're good to go.

I'm all for fixing stuff that needs fixing, but seriously, Alliance Battles are not broken.

MasterSasori · May 03, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

Ask the typical PvE player to join you for an AB and they will tell you that they don't play PvP because "It's not for them". The truth of the matter is, the one time they tried RA with their uber PvE toon, they died in less than 30 seconds, no one rez'd them and they got called "N00b". Left a bad taste in their mouth. They never will play again.

Seeing how many RA are scrubs as well, its not that much different from AB in that sense.

Noob calling in AB is probably more than in RA though. You get your occasional flame in RA, but AB is a hot bed of hate. The ones that normally talk most about noobs are generally the ones who are dead and have 20 or so seconds to type their heart out.

Red Sand · May 03, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Noob calling in AB is probably more than in RA though.

Agreed. Unfortunately it's the PvP that most PvE'rs try. When they fail there, they have to heal their hurt feelings in order to try again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

It's sad to say, but the more organize a PvP, the more builds become important and sooner or later, a general "buildwars" is going to be the result. All ABers moan and groan about how terrible pugs are, but the fact remains that they are also the reason why its so fun.

QFT. Hate PUGs on my side, love them on their side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Since shrines don't go above 4 pips anyway, 6 ppl at a shrine at a time is nonsensical.

I suppose that it could be argued that six people on a team start to take a shrine earlier, because of the numerical advantage. And with increased DPS they take a shrine faster. But I honestly don't see how slightly faster capping of two shrines at a time can possibly keep up with three teams capping and avoiding two mini mobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If you argue they should split, then it is pointless to have 6 ppl in a team anyway.

Splits dont work in AB, because it takes so much longer to turn a shrine over after you kill all the NPCs. Additionally, solo/duo cappers are so much easier to kill when a four man team runs across them.

valence · May 04, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Shrine capping gives you points, but unlike in HB one team cannot be total immune and use that as the only goal to victory. Basically because of the random aspect of AB this is not possible.

Therefor it aren't shrine caps that win in ab, usually the amount of shrines are just a visual display how well 1 team(*3) is doing. Moreover ab wins by the result of small skrims, the team that wins the 4vs4 skrim gets a shrine.

A game with 6 teams solely capping, will both go steady up with no huge difference. It is when you deny the acces to a shrine to the enemy when you start winning.

For example, both teams cap their 3 starting shrines. All teams meat each other in the middle (so 3 small 4vs4 skrims) and all 3 skrims are won by 1 side. This will instantly translate into at least 6 shrines for one side. Teams who are dedicated to shrine capping and avoiding battle at all cost are usually hindering the other 8 players. Shrine capping is fine, but people need to know when to do it. It is fine to go into a small skrim when you are 4vs3 on shrines, if you win the skrim you are closer to victory then by keep capping.

By no means teams shouldn't cap shrines, but your goal is to keep ahead of shrines. Sometimes this means not capping but engaging is a better way to reach this goal. To me, teams that solely cap just try to blame other teams when they lose: 'but we cap!'.

So to reply to the OP, the imbalance of shrines in AB isn't as huge as in HB. Simply said, getting 1 kill on 1 team is 12 points + the shrine they wanted to cap. However if you remove the random nature of ab, and people build more towards capping then your post comes closer to the truth.

Lexar · May 04, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

For example, both teams cap their 3 starting shrines. All teams meat each other in the middle (so 3 small 4vs4 skrims) and all 3 skrims are won by 1 side. This will instantly translate into at least 6 shrines for one side. Teams who are dedicated to shrine capping and avoiding battle at all cost are usually hindering the other 8 players. Shrine capping is fine, but people need to know when to do it. It is fine to go into a small skrim when you are 4vs3 on shrines, if you win the skrim you are closer to victory then by keep capping.

By no means teams shouldn't cap shrines, but your goal is to keep ahead of shrines. Sometimes this means not capping but engaging is a better way to reach this goal. To me, teams that solely cap just try to blame other teams when they lose: 'but we cap!'.

Very true.

For example playing luxon side on etnaran, when you go to the left teleport at the start and cap the necro shrine, sometimes you have teams that dont fight a a small scrimmage with the kurzicks at the warrior shrine, but instead run to the res shrine because they want to keep capping and avoid fighting. That's more than often a poor choice because basically you're giving away the necro shrine for free without a fight and then the res shrine close to base as well, not to mention you're starting a mob yourself at the middle res shrine with the middle team.