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Old Apr 24, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41   #21
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The skills being discussed in this topic are not even the major part of the mesmer meta shift. Yes some mesmer skills were buffed/nerfed but what really changes "the meta" is the overall balancing of other professions... specifically ones that mesmers are set up to counter...

What is being run in the current meta (really comes down to midlines)?
-->split water E/D, mesmer, ranger
-->Icy Shackles or Water Trident stand ele, mesmer, ranger
-->gay 3 war frontline, plauge sig necro, smite monk
-->Cruel Spear, mesmer, ranger

These are your basic 4 builds that are seeing a lot of play right now. Because of the increase in water magic eles, people are bringing [skill]hex eater vortex[/skill] on their mesmers a lot more. I think this is the #1 biggest change in the mesmer meta.

People, of course, still bring E-surge because of its buff, but now E-burn is being taken along with it a bit more... for added e-denial. This option is also being emphasized in the meta due to the aegis nerf. Now it is much easier to E-deny monks because they have much less defense and are required to used up more energy.

Power block has seen a bit of play, probably for the mesmers that doen't like HEV (there are a lot of them). It's pretty easy to shut down a water ele with P-block since his entire bar is usually completely composed of water magic spells.

These are the changes in the meta that I have seen more so than p-leak and... PRICE OF PRIDE... are you kidding me with that one!

thoughts???

ps. --> how do you counter the massive party heals of the 3 war frontline build stated above. That build is strong imo.
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Old Apr 24, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46   #22
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what do you guys think about psychic instability, ive seen it run a couple times but its kindof underpowered imo.
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Old Apr 24, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05   #23
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Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
These are your basic 4 builds that are seeing a lot of play right now. Because of the increase in water magic eles, people are bringing [skill]hex eater vortex[/skill] on their mesmers a lot more. I think this is the #1 biggest change in the mesmer meta.
Wtf? rawr is the only guild I've seen run HEV, pblock is better vs water eles and vs builds with no defensive midliner (in fact it's always better unless you're running a pure spike).

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Power block has seen a bit of play, probably for the mesmers that doen't like HEV (there are a lot of them). It's pretty easy to shut down a water ele with P-block since his entire bar is usually completely composed of water magic spells.
The main reason people run pblock is because prot monks running 5-7 prot skills and there not being much off monk defense in this meta, water eles are a distant second reason at best.

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ps. --> how do you counter the massive party heals of the 3 war frontline build stated above. That build is strong imo.
Run 3 warriors yourself and just push their shit in.
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Old Apr 24, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19   #24
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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
Run 3 warriors yourself and just push their shit in.
gawd... so basically what your saying is you cant build-wars this in any way... You basically just have to run the same build against it better than the opposing team... that seams a bit unbalanced imo... lol!

If anyone else can think of a clear cut shutdown to their smite monk... let me know. The party healing and damage on that bar is rediculous. Basically all you can do is try to spike it out. If you fail at that, you lose. At least that's what I have come to believe.

Mitch, pretty much everything in your last post is correct imo. yes P-block is used to shut down prot monk bars... but it was used for that pre-skill change so i didnt mention it... smart ass jkjkjkjkjkjk

I have seen a lot of guilds using HEV... A LOT!!!!
Last edited by Brian the Gladiator; Apr 24, 2008 at 07:23 PM // 19:23..
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Old Apr 24, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42   #25
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Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
gawd... so basically what your saying is you cant build-wars this in any way... You basically just have to run the same build against it better than the opposing team... that seams a bit unbalanced imo... lol!
You can outspike it with normal balanced, or even pressure them out with p, r, me midline.

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If anyone else can think of a clear cut shutdown to their smite monk... let me know. The party healing and damage on that bar is rediculous. Basically all you can do is try to spike it out. If you fail at that, you lose. At least that's what I have come to believe.
Diversion (obviously, it's the universal counter to everything) and energy denial (the energy is pretty bad on that smiter if he's actually using his skills).

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Mitch, pretty much everything in your last post is correct imo. yes P-block is used to shut down prot monk bars... but it was used for that pre-skill change so i didnt mention it... smart ass jkjkjkjkjkjk
Before the last update there wasnt too much of a point in pblocking a monk as every team had several copies of aegis and a melee ward and most of the time a bsurge ele as well.

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I have seen a lot of guilds using HEV... A LOT!!!!
Bad guilds maybe, I've hardly seen it.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25   #26
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The smite monk is a fantastic character. It is a strong counter to the ridiculous dominance of knockdowns, brings back decent party healing, has offensive potential, and offers utility in having slots for additional hex/condi removal or hard res.

How to shut it down? The same ways you shut down any other caster.
Last edited by JR; Apr 25, 2008 at 07:41 AM // 07:41..
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17   #27
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Originally Posted by JR
The smite monk is a fantastic character. It is a strong counter to the ridiculous dominance of knockdowns, brings back decent party healing, has offensive potential, and offers utility in having slots for additional hex/condi removal or hard res.

How to shut it down? The same ways you shut down any other caster.
It's basically just a 3rd monk, it's 'offensive potential' is pretty much zero.

Old AoE smiters were decent templates, this one is just another VoD stall character.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39   #28
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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
It's basically just a 3rd monk, it's 'offensive potential' is pretty much zero.

Old AoE smiters were decent templates, this one is just another VoD stall character.
A VoD stall character? Since when was running a utility/defensive character considered purely stalling for VoD? Not letting your Monks get blown up or KD chained is usually a pretty good strat. Do you really consider it more defensive than say a Bsurge with a Ward?

The meta has definately moved in a better direction, and physical pressure works again. You can hardly expect people not to keep some form of support character when there are four/five physical builds running around. Maybe if people relied less on KDs to kill (Euros) you would have less of a problem with it.
Last edited by JR; Apr 25, 2008 at 10:42 AM // 10:42..
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39   #29
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Originally Posted by JR
A VoD stall character? Since when was running a utility/defensive character considered purely stalling for VoD? Not letting your Monks get blown up or KD chained is usually a pretty good strat. Do you really consider it more defensive than say a Bsurge with a Ward?
Yeah, at least a BSurge has a damage skill, the damage output from these smite monks is next to nothing.


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The meta has definately moved in a better direction, and physical pressure works again. You can hardly expect people not to keep some form of support character when there are four/five physical builds running around.
Mirror matches between dR's 'physical pressure' build (you know, the one with 6 healing characters) are possibly even boring than mirror matches with both teams running rawr build were before the update.

Physical pressure is definitely viable again, running some sort of somewhat defensive support character is understandable, running 4 fullblown healers however is VoD stalling.

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Maybe if people relied less on KDs to kill (Euros) you would have less of a problem with it.
That's the way Guild Wars works, KDs are everything, it's not just euros either.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36   #30
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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
Yeah, at least a BSurge has a damage skill, the damage output from these smite monks is next to nothing.
I'd assume that if you added up the damage caused by a bp smiter you would at least be close to the DPS of a Bsurge - assuming the bar has Judge's/RoD/Smite Hex. Not really sure, but I don't see why it even particularly matters whether or not the character has a skill to spike assist with.

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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
Physical pressure is definitely viable again, running some sort of somewhat defensive support character is understandable, running 4 fullblown healers however is VoD stalling.
Well I wasn't advocating that. I'm fairly sure you can run the smiter in builds with only two other defensive characters.

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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
That's the way Guild Wars works, KDs are everything, it's not just euros either.
They are 'everything' because they are so powerful and difficult to defend against. I certainly don't think they are a necessary part of any metagame.
Last edited by JR; Apr 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM // 12:39..
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04   #31
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Originally Posted by JR
I'd assume that if you added up the damage caused by a bp smiter you would at least be close to the DPS of a Bsurge - assuming the bar has Judge's/RoD/Smite Hex. Not really sure, but I don't see why it even particularly matters whether or not the character has a skill to spike assist with.
You can probably get higher DPS out of an air ele with conjure lightning that wands people, but that doesn't mean it's better.



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Well I wasn't advocating that. I'm fairly sure you can run the smiter in builds with only two other defensive characters.
Not until splinter weapon gets nerfed properly.


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They are 'everything' because they are so powerful and difficult to defend against. I certainly don't think they are a necessary part of any metagame.
I think they are, but I also think that shock and magehunter's are probably a bit too strong.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
You can probably get higher DPS out of an air ele with conjure lightning that wands people, but that doesn't mean it's better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
Yeah, at least a BSurge has a damage skill, the damage output from these smite monks is next to nothing.
Do you care about damage output or not?
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14   #33
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Originally Posted by JR
Do you care about damage output or not?
On a support caster with low dps I'd much rather have a 'spike skill' than reversal of damage and smite condition.

I'm gonna stop arguing now, cause I don't get paid for arguing on forums/irc.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31   #34
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Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH
On a support caster with low dps I'd much rather have a 'spike skill' than reversal of damage and smite condition.

I'm gonna stop arguing now, cause I don't get paid for arguing on forums/irc.
I don't see the logic of that when you aren't playing a build that is built to spike. .. but I guess you are a euro, so that's all you do.
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Old Apr 25, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27   #35
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I don't see the logic of that when you aren't playing a build that is built to spike. .. but I guess you are a euro, so that's all you do.
Is your job really this boring?
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Old May 01, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09   #36
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hurrah skill revert warriors can RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO right off ^^

whats with thinking euros only spike? just cause we dont require a paragon to pressure well, a good midline and frontline can cause pressure without a turret
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Old May 01, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20   #37
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there is neither am nor euro guild that can pressure with any kind of ele
para is still da best and wins vs ele unless there is 2aegises1partygon1bbotbreakermantra1campnerdmes2co unterblowwarsWAY


edit: forgot about melee after ...bbot...
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Old May 01, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26   #38
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Well who gives a crap now that everything is back to what it was. Thanks for the fun meta anet in who knows how long, only to be axed 3 weeks later.
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Old May 02, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16   #39
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Yea playing guild wars was actually a lot of fun for once, too bad everything got reverted because pvers cant deal with a slight change, and Anet still doesn't have a clue.
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Old May 02, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01   #40
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Originally Posted by Phe Belladona
hurrah skill revert warriors can RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO right off ^^

whats with thinking euros only spike? just cause we dont require a paragon to pressure well, a good midline and frontline can cause pressure without a turret
I think he meant the guild [Euro] and not general euro people.
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