Curse

JR · May 11, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

If this update lets Izzy make good PvP updates, it will be fine. But only in the case that PvE was the restrict for Izzy to make proper balance updates in past. Otherwise, the situation won't change, skills will still get ether renewaled etc.

I think conflicting views on balance has been a bigger problem in the past than the PvE impact. If this change in approach allows Izzy to make updates more often then it might have some merit, otherwise it really isn't going to change a great deal.

DarkNecrid · May 11, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

if this means izzy is going to update way more than 1-2 times a month, then ok it will make me feel a bit better about it.

but with anet's stance on gw2, I doubt it.

Legendary Shiz · May 11, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

as for the whole "feel" last time I checked PvP and PvE used entirely different skill bars, so meh...

You can use whatever bar you want to in PvE. You could have glyph sac met shower on a monk if you really wanted, that's the greatness of PvE.

And fyi, I've used PvP bars many many times in PvE and it's equally effective. That's not the point I'm trying to make, just saying.

Magikarp · May 11, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

i tried to warn everyone this was going to happen, and how devastating this would be on the playstyles of well over 70% of the community...

isamu kurosawa · May 11, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I have been against this idea every time it was proposed, I am suprised to see thay actually decided to do it. Hopefully they will keep it on as few skills as possible and use it as a temporary buffer till they can find a better balance.

Heck, i'd prefer they at least added additional effects to skills such as the KD trigger on [[Club of a Thousand Bears]. Having extra effects that trigger from skills used on non-humans or giving certain water skills extra effects if used against charr for example would be better than whole different damage, cost, casting, recharge numbers in each mode.

Or preferably give skills changes like the current clumsiness, that was a nerf for pvp and a buff for pve at the same time. (i'd love the same thing to be done to [[ineptitude].

Riotgear · May 11, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I agree with you on Splinter Weapon, not on the others.

Also, kicking the first 3 in the teeth is going to prove to be bad for the game after the dust settles.

I'm still curious to what the thought process was behind reverting ALL of the changes, especially when several had little to no real impact on PvE and some were even improvements.

Whether Death Pact Signet is good for the game depends on who you ask, a lot of people don't like the proliferation of hard res skills. I don't think Ancestor's Rage is making a particularly positive contribution to the game either, Splinter I could tolerate if they'd fix NPC balls (or simply make NPCs resistant to splash damage).

isamu kurosawa · May 11, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I'm still curious to what the thought process was behind reverting ALL of the changes, especially when several had little to no real impact on PvE and some were even improvements.

Whether Death Pact Signet is good for the game depends on who you ask, a lot of people don't like the proliferation of hard res skills. I don't think Ancestor's Rage is making a particularly positive contribution to the game either, Splinter I could tolerate if they'd fix NPC balls (or simply make NPCs resistant to splash damage).

PvE wise the temp skill balance hit [[aegis], [[flesh of my flesh], [[death pact signet], [[splinter weapon], [[song of restoration] and [[ballad of restoration] hard.

aegis cost too much to run on hero monks flesh and dps lost the main reason they are used over other hard resses, splinter was made less affective and the chants where made useless for that week. all of which my aliance use in teams on a daily basis.

Trylo · May 11, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

personally i think that we should wait and see how many they actually change. they wrote in the update that they were going to try to keep it to a minimum, so im expecting ~10 skills to be changed at first (probably one or two for each prof)... which already seems to be too many. however, i am afraid of the loss of 'feel'... and hope that they only change skills which have no other possible fix. because i really think that all the 'broken' skills could be fixed, this whole separation thing just sounds like laziness to me.

Molock · May 11, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Hopefully Anet doesn't make any extremely stupid mistakes in their balancing... e.g. nerf certain skills to uselessness because "it won't affect PvE anyway"

This new system should only be used in extreme situations when a skill is being abused a lot in PvP but also used a lot in PvE. For example, I wouldn't support a change to Splinter weapon for PvP only, if they re-increase the recharge to 8 seconds it should apply to PvE also. The last thing we want is a massive gap between PvE skills and PvP skills.

Edit: I fully support the idea if ANET can use it to justify a complete and utter nerf to Ursan, one so harsh the ursanites will QQ in Riverside for 3 whole weeks!

Trylo · May 11, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

im hoping Relnor was using the /sarcasm command?

anyways... after rethinking the idea and consulting a third party, this idea seems like it should help the game as a whole. PvP and PvE are already separate games, and this will not effect it at all. this will also justify an UB nerf, and hopefully bring less used classes into the PvE scene.

having to memorize 2 different skills should really not be that hard, theyll have different names (PVE/PVP) which i assume they will keep when in a match, making it obvious that it is not the same skill.

about the 'feel' idea, dont you already have a different 'feel' for PvE than PvP? even if skills have different numerical values, the mobs already have different numerical values (armor, skill sets, damage multipliers, etc). people can cope with that when they switch from PvE to PvP, this might make it even easier because now your damage wont be so far apart (120 from rodgorts on a squishie, 100 from rodgorts on a mob instead of 80 on a mob-assuming rodgorts got changed).

anyways, this seems overall like a decent change that will satisfy the PvE players while not subtracting anything from the PvP environment. this thread seems to be overreacting to something we havent even seen yet.

Riotgear · May 11, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

PvE wise the temp skill balance hit [[aegis], [[flesh of my flesh], [[death pact signet], [[splinter weapon], [[song of restoration] and [[ballad of restoration] hard.

Oh I know some of them were pretty hard hits. Chaos Storm was a buff, Energy Surge was roughly the same, Fevered Dreams was a buff, and Dark Pact was a buff.

Tyla · May 11, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Oh I know some of them were pretty hard hits. Chaos Storm was a buff, Energy Surge was roughly the same, Fevered Dreams was a buff, and Dark Pact was a buff.

Fragility was quite sexy for that period of time too, it managed to get Gwen off my not-used heroes list.

None of those updates really bothered me, though.
Aegis was only 5E more, for PvE, I noticed next to no difference while Monking.
FomF and DPSignet, I only use Res Sig mainly.

Splinter Weapon was only 3 seconds difference. Didn't make a change in my killing.

But I'm going to miss the love ANet gave to Frag....

It shouldn't of got reverted still. I'm not bothered about the buffs and nerfs that came, as long as PvP stays...fit and healthy (Perhaps not the best words in it's current state though).

Bowstring Badass · May 11, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I thought PvE skills were the solution to all of this garbage about "MAKE THE NERFS ONLY TO PvP."

red orc · May 11, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

All the player base that is playing from now till GW2 should get a discound on GW2, for testing the concepts for Anet.
I think this is going to get wierder as tme GW2 beta approches.

kade · May 11, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

What's more confusing that anything is considering the past with dying nightmares, gear trick nerf, griffin removal, loot scaling, AoE fleeing, all of this junk that was put into the game that obviously was going to piss off PvErs... yet now the game is being dramatically altered to appease them.

I'm with you on this...the only explanation is testing for GW2 as has already been mentioned. Why after all this time the entire focus of the game has been shifted is beyond me...

Ego · May 11, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I am curious how to this will play out, hope it doesn't take to long to arrive.

Alex the Great · May 11, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

there is always at least one person that crys like a baby whenever anet does something good.

quit being a whiner, if you where good in the first place it will be easy for you to adapt to.

la_cabra_de_vida · May 12, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I think the worst part of this will be that no longer will the pve/pvp divide be symbolic or mental. But now truly a physical barrier with the skills being different. Which of course will just keep both communities snapping at each others tail coats. And having different names for the changed skills would probably be best to keeping the divide at a minimum.

Sab · May 12, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

I cried a little inside. It's pretty stupid that someone who thinks "oh no, 2s cast on DA, my PvE Para is doomed!" has as much of a say on skill balance as anyone with a clue.

Draikin · May 12, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida

And having different names for the changed skills would probably be best to keeping the divide at a minimum.

I think that's the best solution. Basically it would come down to making skills like Splinter Weapon PvE only and to remove them from PvP, and then create a (nerfed) PvP only copy of the skill and give it a new name and icon.