Curse

Joseph Leito · May 09, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyrAnkh

(splinter nerf anyone?)

Actually, I have to say, that one did kind of piss me off. Rangers aren't exactly overpowered... Most of the time I can just adapt, but I had to just scrap four Splinter builds. (No, not all barrage, I'm not attempting to explain though.)

Before anyone rants me, yes, I'm mostly a PvE'er, though I like PvP just fine. I'm not a 'PvE whiner,' I wish they'd make it a bit harder actually. Though, trying to HM Hench Dredge in Ferndale is definitely hard enough.

Clarissa F · May 09, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Feel? PvE has never been the same as PvE. Are you saying you use the same technique in PvP as in PvE? With your experience it should take you all of a few weeks to get used to the style of play, like learning a new set of skills after a big skill adjustment update.

Think of it this way. You prepare for PvP(hopefully) in a different way than for PvE. For one thing, you can prepare well in advance for doing a mission, or even for clearing a zone. You tend to know where the spawns are, and what bosses are around. In PvP, you know, as a monk, that you will be the target for melee and interruptors, and you prepare according to the style(AB,RA,TA,GvG).

Now, skills will be adapted for each arena of play. Someone in PvE won't have to crap when a skill like LoD becomes Heal Party with a gold border. Casual players can have their fun. If they do decide to go to PvP, it could be more like a different game, with skills adjusted to favor player skill and synergy, not just hitting with the right bar.

It will get everyone ready for GW2, giving a glimpse of the separate worlds which will exist in that game. I love the idea.

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIDGOOCH

Lets take this a step further and make PvP a separate game from PvE, diferenent skill names, costs, icons too. That PvP players will have no reason to wander into PvE territory and vice versa.

Best idea yet... PvP players don't have to buy PvE version to play their game, only need to buy unlock skills. PvE players don't have to listen to LEET sauce PvP players brag about stuff they could really care less about.

Segregation thats the key!!!

This is the BEST idea so far ! This way, PvPers CAN get the skill changes they so desire, WITHOUT affecting the PvEers.

The Meth · May 09, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I can imagine this playing havok with pve/pvp players (of which I am one). Hopefully its going to be done pretty rarely, and its not going to be a like mentioned in your original post. A range difference across skills would be pretty frustrating. I'm more worried about a player new to PvP or PvE getting utterly confused when they realize skills are different then the players who are already good at the game.

BTW, does this mean we can go ahead and unnerf some real pve skills (ether renewal-type) and kill off ursan?

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I can imagine this playing havok with pve/pvp players (of which I am one). Hopefully its going to be done pretty rarely, and its not going to be a like mentioned in your original post. A range difference across skills would be pretty frustrating.

BTW, does this mean we can go ahead and unnerf some real pve skills (ether renewal-type) and kill off ursan?

Killing off ursan without nerfing would be hard.

U need to buff ALOT of skills over a range of many classes to reduce ursan hunting parties down.

Mr Fizzle · May 09, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

This update is either going to bring us to the depth of hell or its going to take us to the gates of heaven.

Yes I just said that.

The Meth · May 09, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Killing off ursan without nerfing would be hard.

U need to buff ALOT of skills over a range of many classes to reduce ursan hunting parties down.

By 'kill' I meant nerf into the ground beyond the point of ether renewal.

The way I see it there are lots of skills which should be essentially PvE only because if they were viable in PvP they would be horribly overpowered. The best example of this was pre nerf ether renewal. In PvP this gives teams infinite energy, but in PvE Soul reaping is already giving necros infinite energy, eles might as well get some too.

Edit: I hope this isn't just a cop-out to stop caring about PvE skill balance entirely and only balance skills for PvP. PvE changes to skills are refreshing to the game.

Draikin · May 09, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

A possible solution to this problem (if it's at all possible to implement) is to give players the option of using the less powerful PvP versions of skills in PvE. To avoid confusion between party members (people using both overpowered and nerfed versions of skills) I guess they could implement it as a third mode beside Normal and Hard mode, so that the entire party has to select the same mode before entering an area. It could basically be the same as Hard mode but without PvE only skills (solving the Ursan problem) and without overpowered PvE versions of certain skills. The rewards in the area should of course be increased accordingly.

absolutcrobi · May 09, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

now if only they revert some of the pve skill back to what they were BEFORE pvp nerfed them.

The Meth · May 09, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

No, the solution would have been to leave this bullshit alone...

It depends on how its done. A difference in LoD range between modes would be incredibly frustrating. On the other hand, simply remembering that, say, Jagged Bones is worthless in PvP (with the current forever recharge) and good in PvE (with the original 5 recharge) isn't hard.

Shayne Hawke · May 09, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I was wondering when they'd do this.

Someone posted a suggestion to add a doomsday clock to GW the other night.

This pretty much confirms that we're getting there.

TheHaxor · May 09, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Both worlds should simply have completely different skills, not different versions of the same skill. This doesn't mean there can't be some overlap of skill types, but hopefully in Guild Wars 2 the PvP world and the PvE world have two different sets of skills.

I do think you are overreacting a little bit though Divine. I think your brain will be able to differentiate between how a skill feels in PvP compared to PvE just fine.

Aera · May 09, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

There's no need for separate skill balances. PvE will IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE nuking and repetitive predictable killing of mobs. I don't see how changing skills would affect that. There's no such thing as 'balance' in PvE, because you can easily exploit the bad AI etc. by using other skills.

And yeah even though I hardly PvE, I will definitely stop PvEing completely to prevent confusion.

Ego · May 09, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I doubt this will confuse many people, unless you really have no clue what you're doing.

Axel Zinfandel · May 09, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

If this is correct, then it's about freaking time. Honestly, it fixes PvE and it fixes PvP and the skill problems between the two. If we've learned ANYTHING from skill balances, is that PvP is a vastly different game from PvE. Personally, this does nothing to drive me away from either PvE OR PvP, in fact it makes me want to play BOTH more.

You can't honestly complain about having to 'learn' the new skills so to say. It will not honestly take that much time to adapt. I think of it this way... Now that they have done this, Anet doesn't HAVE to worry about how PvE changes will affect PvP and vice-versa, and skill balances will be more logical on both sides.

I am personally looking forward to this, if they do decide to go through with it.

Div · May 09, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by d00m1n470r

I doubt this will confuse many people, unless you really have no clue what you're doing.

Fact: 99% of the GW population has no clue what they're doing. They'll go to RA with their 300 damage flare and finds it only does 30 damage now.

MisterT69 · May 09, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

This looks awesome. Finally some needed balances between PVP and PVE. *hopes for MB + rodgorts revert in PVE

* and maybe an LoD buff for PVE...

frojack · May 09, 2008, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I like how we don't actually know what these changes will be yet...

Besides, GW is now a very good testing ground for concepts for GW 2. It's makes a lot of sense to see if the systems work before building an entire sequel out of it. I don't see how this is bad in any way whatsoever, if handled properly.
If your worried about the affects on this somewhat over-the-hill game, the changes can simply be reverted if they are hideous.

Until I have the skills in hand, I don't buy into this whole 'feel' business. Despite seeing the theory behind it, that's all it really is...

Bobby2 · May 09, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

If ANet intend to go through with this, they'd best just make completely different skill lists for PvE and PvP - truth is it's not as likely to confuse people than a precious few shady exceptions.

As for the 'feel' difference, you must've experienced like a gazillion nerfs by now. You a worse player now?

so /agree ish somewhat but imho not worth Q.Qing over

moriz · May 09, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

the only difference is, instead of a change being permanent, it will be different depending on where you are. that can potentially lead to problems in adapting.

of course, this also make it the first time where a pvp build might not work in pve at all.