Curse

Kaelyn the Dove · Apr 10, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfs Shadow

Clearly You did not read what I wrote.

"Before I write the non-ending "field" test I have done. I completely agree that Rank 3 players only want to be teamed up with rank3 players and so on up the Rank chart. However start remembering when you first started.Now to the fun filled facts we all already know, but are afraid to fully admit it. It is also no new news that HA isn't what it used to be. But I don't quite think you understand truly how bad it will be in the future." FIRST PARAGRAPH. You couldn't manage to read that far.

I truly congratulate those of whom earned their rank. I really honestly do. It takes time and effort, I know.

Also another point right there.

Stop thinking I am complaining about high ranked people. They are simply playing the game the way it should be played. However for a game who cheers for their 5,000,000 players (which is impressive) should not have a lower number of HA than they did 2 years ago. Two new campaigns have come out even an expansion pack. The numbers in HA still falls. Who knows maybe the update allowing Taiwan players may make a difference. Doesn't change that new players have no chance. And yes I am ranked. I forgot what it was like to be r1 so I tested it. I was in a way yes surprised because it is 10 times harder now then what it used to be. I maybe Mr Obvious, but I did go to great lengths just to see how bad it really was. Close the thread if you want, but at least I pointed out hard facts. I am not going to go to a mass thread where my post will be on the 20th page. Clearly even with a first page topic people still did not read completely.

Sorry about not being clear, what I meant in my first sentence is that the thread has degenerated into a rank discrimination cry fest. I respect your posts, but read some of the other comments. It does not take a genius to see where the thread is headed.

TaCktiX · Apr 10, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

What's been killing HA more than anything has been the allowance of degenerate builds to stay in the meta for far too long. Boring for the high ranks to kill, hard as hell for the low ranks to kill. [/condensed version of earlier post]

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

What's been killing HA more than anything has been the allowance of degenerate builds to stay in the meta for far too long. Boring for the high ranks to kill, hard as hell for the low ranks to kill. [/condensed version of earlier post]

Your right. Pretty much plain and simple.

There really has to be a way to fix it. I loved playing HA it was so much fun. I come back to seeing plenty of ranked players which is great. it really is. If it really is brought up as much as people are saying then there is a serious problem ANET needs to look at.

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds

great PvP shame HA'ers are arrogant and wont make it great by helping the lower generation.

Nothing to do with that. No player should have to be the ones to teach other players. Its not their job. It is ANET's.

You need to understand that it takes almost 30-50 minutes (depending on the build). Balanced, Spike or whatever to get a ranked build together. That in itself is a pain. There truly isn't time to teach anyone new. It would take a whole day.

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelyn the Dove

Sorry about not being clear, what I meant in my first sentence is that the thread has degenerated into a rank discrimination cry fest. I respect your posts, but read some of the other comments. It does not take a genius to see where the thread is headed.

I apologize just having a thread closed isn't helping

Tyla · Apr 10, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds

great PvP shame HA'ers are arrogant and wont make it great by helping the lower generation.

I'm sure there are some posts in these forums about that. People just want a better chance of getting the best they can get. PuGs do fail, anyway -- Even in places like this. Especially because of all of the double fame weekends and farms using degenerate builds going on, which also causes good players to leave because it gets boring. Tacktix explained better, though.

Infact, some people who are higher ranked hate the "Rank barrier" and help others with it. I think Sektor made a post somewhere considering helping.

@Wolfs Shadow -- Please can you use Edit? >.>

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

I'll probably never really HA. It isnt worth it. The few times I have been there, its a case of wait 2hrs, get an invite, have a slow loader/rage quitter and the team dissappears in seconds.

My point exactly. Your right I have had this happen more times in the last two months than my entire guild wars career. People set off timer so there is a shout fest. Someone accidentally didn't put a trap right or rezed the wrong person people flip out and quit.

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

In my own opinion when Guild Wars just came out there was still a lot of mixes. build testing, team organization. So many more people were involved. However the focus has gone straight to PvE it seems.
If I wanted to play PvE constantly I would play WoW. I like competitions, I enjoy inventing new builds and all this other stuff.

IWAY IWAY IWAY
For those who actually got 100 fame from this alone I feel for you. Maybe when it first came out it was awesome, but how can people do a build over and over and over for 1-2 fames a pop.

Please please please quote me if I am wrong, but from my understanding that there is less then 10 total builds people actually use today.

It never felt like a chore or at least one this bad to get a team together. I never got stressed out because we lost. I actually have never seen so many rage quiters. I had to ask what a rage quiter was. I am getting old.

RiceCream · Apr 11, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

ah.... back to 6v6 HA...that would make things fun again
what would happen if HA went back to 6v6; what would that do?
-It would destroy nearly all current popular spikes...
-IWAY wouldnt come back... IWAY's "Fear Me" aspect is dead
-Balanced...would still work
-25% fewer players required for a team = more teams in HA = more of a chance to face low ranked teams

Any theories on what reverting to 6v6 would do to SWAY and ghey gimmicks?

ps: please stop qq'ing about the rank barrier... everyone (ranked) has gone through it before (and still goes through it (bleeeh your wolf isnt as big as my wolf you cant join)

Murris · Apr 11, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

A-net will not make any changes to HA in my opinion, at least for now.
All the changes that need to be made will be done in Guild Wars 2.

It's like instead of making GW 4 : Utopia, they made EOTN and GW2 because it's better than the first plan.
In my opinion GW 2 will make the changes expected with even more cool things in it.

I don't think that fixing HA is in A-net top invesment at the moment. But it's gonna happen. it would look stupid to fix something and than sell a game with the same feature.

They could make it 6v6 for now...why not.

Lord Natural · Apr 11, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds

great PvP shame HA'ers are arrogant and wont make it great by helping the lower generation.

There comes a time when you just stop caring about training new players and you just want to play with players of equal experience. At least that's what I've found. This is a game after all, so having a good time is key. Besides, no high ranked players stuck their neck out for me back in 2005. Most people got their rank the hard way, and yeah you've gotta work through crap to get it. If HA activity is down, it's because the pvp population right now is in a steady decline. This is not a new trend.

Kyp Jade · Apr 11, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

please do not ask for 6v6, balanced fails in 6v6, youve no room for things that are important.

In 6v6, you pick one built arcetype, and go with it. Hexes would probably rape 6v6

Lykan · Apr 11, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfs Shadow

Stats during testing.
Fame: 1
Total time spent during waiting: 6 hours 33 minutes.
Total time playing actual matches: 17 minutes 31 seconds.

This is what is wrong with HA right now... people want everything handed to them.

In all that time waiting did you try and make a group of your own with r0-3 players?

No of course you didnt, like all the players whining about not getting into teams, none of them are prepared to put the work into researching a build and making a team themselves.

Thats the difference with high ranked players, they will go on something such as Teambuilder, write up a build and then play it. Instead of waiting around for others to do the work for them and tell them what to do.

And please dont mention 6v6 again, that was Anets biggest ever failure.

Masamune can you post that crying baby pic again and close this crap.

kranius · Apr 11, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

HeY I WanT To Do HardCorE DoA FarminG BuT TheY AsK FoR r10 !!!11!!

PLZ ANET LET ME DoA FarM, I WanT ThaT 1337 ThinG PLZZZ

plz close thread & stop QQ

yakuza · Apr 11, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

lykan.....u have a point there, and the op hould take a look.
NOTHING IS FREE...unles u have 5 finger discount somewhere

Hugh Manatee · Apr 11, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

This is what is wrong with HA right now... people want everything handed to them.

In all that time waiting did you try and make a group of your own with r0-3 players?

No of course you didnt, like all the players whining about not getting into teams, none of them are prepared to put the work into researching a build and making a team themselves.

Thats kinda backwards, how is someone absolutely fresh at the game supposed to have the innate experience to set up a good group without having a bit of practical experience. I know there are natural born leaders and such out there, I've been in parties with them, gotten pretty far and put up a good fight before going down. People like me, I'm a wingman, I follow calls, do what I'm told as best I can, and if I mess up I'm smart enough to know it and try not to do that again, I take coaching well, and got 77 fame for it in the few time guildies or allies call for extra HAers(thats was about 2 or 3, runs I can't recall).

Problem is, I've tried setting up groups, balanced, and canned stuff like Iway(long time ago) and others. Takes 2-3 hours of just sitting there, then getting rolled on the zaishen or one of the first 2 maps assuming you get the people in the first place. You CANNOT say I didn't try, and you CANNOT call me lazy. If 2-3 hours of idling in HA, sticking with a pug group to get it set up, commed and growing hemorrhoids is considered 'lazy' in the halls then what the hell isn't... I can tell you what it's not, FUN. I realized I could be doing something else 'productive' in the game and fun, so I gave up on halls in favor of GvG and PvE.

You just don't go into HA a lone cowboy and expect to have fun. Contrary to what people are saying, I've never met a person in HA I'd want on a friend list and I never get tapped by people on my lists. Where are these social networks forming, cause all I get when I try to lead is a party full of pushy jerks who also try and run the show, spam racist junk or just refuse to play well(run pinged builds and gear, comm up or get mics, follow called targets ect).

Like I said,I been playing around for almost 3 years, I have a brain, I'm relatively UAX from PvE, RA/TA, AB and GvG, I have all the necessary equipment, hardware, and software and I follow calls well enough, and am willing to make a decent attempt at learning, improving, I just can't find that certain something that everyone else has that allows them to get the ball rolling. I guess I've slipped through the cracks so to speak.

DreamWind · Apr 11, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

This is what is wrong with HA right now... people want everything handed to them.

In all that time waiting did you try and make a group of your own with r0-3 players? No of course you didnt, like all the players whining about not getting into teams, none of them are prepared to put the work into researching a build and making a team themselves.

I see what you are saying, but in practice Guild Wars just doesn't work like this. One of the games biggest strengths, its team aspect, has also been a major weakness for a large majority of players.

It is difficult to get teams together organized to play...often takes several hours with minimal playing time. It is particularly worse in lower ranked groups who don't usually have much success and tend to rage out in 1-2 games. I don't blame people for not wanting to put in work when the playing time is minimal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Thats the difference with high ranked players, they will go on something such as Teambuilder, write up a build and then play it. Instead of waiting around for others to do the work for them and tell them what to do.

Hey if I had 7 people who could play a build with me all day I would, but I don't have that luxury. I love Guild Wars don't get me wrong, but the preparation time to play is a HUGE factor. I can go pick up any other PvP game and play all day if I want. Guild Wars I need 7 friends with similar schedules and logged on at the same time as me.

Ate of DK · Apr 11, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

The problem is grouping, plain and simple.

...

If you want to fix the issue of grouping, HA needs more leaders. One group leader generally has 20-30 people he will play with on a consistant basis. Whats more is that groups form with people of roughly the same skill level. AND even more than that, as a player you really only improve when you play in teams at your skill level.

I have to agree with this.

The Alliance I'm in is mainly PvP-focussed and you'll see a few leaders that each have their own player base. If someone is missing the Alliance gets asked to fill the empty spot. If no Alliance members are available, we have a few outside-connections with players. Often these players are much lower in rank but earned a possition in the team by playing well.

Before a PuG gets a chance into these groups you'll see everyone ask their friendslist or they keep waiting till another Alliance member gets online. Currently we have 2-3 Alliance teams running during the evening. A few days ago we even had 3 Alliance teams facing each other in the Halls.

And if this works like this in most Alliances then I can see why PuGs have no chance to find a group.
Just like we did, they have to create their own network of players.

@Kyp, sometimes these networks are closer than you realise. You we're in the Alliance with British Bulldogs [DOGS]. My brother is one of their leaders and he mentioned that he played with you sometimes. His name is Zophar and he prob. played mesmer or monk if that rings any bells.

DreamWind · Apr 11, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

The Alliance I'm in is mainly PvP-focussed and you'll see a few leaders that each have their own player base. If someone is missing the Alliance gets asked to fill the empty spot. If no Alliance members are available, we have a few outside-connections with players. Often these players are much lower in rank but earned a possition in the team by playing well.

Before a PuG gets a chance into these groups you'll see everyone ask their friendslist or they keep waiting till another Alliance member gets online. Currently we have 2-3 Alliance teams running during the evening. A few days ago we even had 3 Alliance teams facing each other in the Halls.

And if this works like this in most Alliances then I can see why PuGs have no chance to find a group.
Just like we did, they have to create their own network of players.

That is an ok system, but most people have problems greater than this even if they have this network.

Think about the average PvE player in the average alliance. If they want to play HA or GvG, theres a large chance they won't be able to play with alliance members because their alliance is mostly PvE members. You essentially have to be in a PvP alliance/guild in order to depend on them to play.

Then of course the next step down from guild/alliance is the friendlists, which are wholly undependable in my experiences. I have a full friendlist of PvP players, and play with people who have full friendlists of PvP players, and it is often still hard to consistently get the required 8. Often friends that are logged are on already in a group, don't have time, only have time for 1-2 games, or just plain aren't logged on.

Then the next step down is pug, which is basically the last resort. It can be a starting point, but I don't think I need to go into the problems with pugging for the average player beyond that.

It can get very frustrating. I have friends who really like GW, but quit and now play other games solely because its basically impossible to play whenever you want in GW.

Kyp Jade · Apr 11, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

That is an ok system, but most people have problems greater than this even if they have this network.

Think about the average PvE player in the average alliance. If they want to play HA or GvG, theres a large chance they won't be able to play with alliance members because their alliance is mostly PvE members. You essentially have to be in a PvP alliance/guild in order to depend on them to play.

Then of course the next step down from guild/alliance is the friendlists, which are wholly undependable in my experiences. I have a full friendlist of PvP players, and play with people who have full friendlists of PvP players, and it is often still hard to consistently get the required 8. Often friends that are logged are on already in a group, don't have time, only have time for 1-2 games, or just plain aren't logged on.

Not really true, I dont get people from the alliance very much, every alliance I have ever been in rarely brings to me people, and only a few of those are actually lfg enough to play with me on a regular basis.

And the entire bit about MUST BE in a pvp guild/alliance is a falsehood. I play with several pve people. One person not even in my guild I play with almost every day, hes the biggest pve noob if I've ever seen one, he is 1 max title away from KoBD (6) I believe.

This is social networking. You know those real life skills you develop to help you land jobs, internships, summer research, that kinda stuff. That ALL applies to a social game like GW. It sucks at first, but as soon as you get the snowball rolling down the hill it grows bigger, and faster.

I did play with zophar once or twice, but then again I didnt flist him, and didnt ask the alliance very often because of a couple noob guilds always having players that want to leech fame in my groups.