Curse

Akaraxle · Jun 02, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

How about we don't talk VoD, as Anet doesn't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO?

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Getting rid of dAT's and making it ladder-only will turn Guildwars into a Europe-only game. The three remaining Japanese guilds and two remaining American guilds would simply quit from inactivity.

But hey, at least a Euro team would finally get gold after vD now if only Euros are playing! (unless you want to be proud that Uni won it for Europe ^_^)

Don't be dumb Divine, it's not like we have anyone that "counts" besides StS, sup (?) and maybe a couple others else I'm forgetting - and even those aren't rawr/dR level imho. While it may be true that Europe outnumbers yanks, the "top" level of the latter is clearly superior because we don't have people like eF or EW around anymore.

Divinus Stella · Jun 02, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Well sup outclasses rawr, they proven so on every occasion so far.

I wouldnt say dR was anywhere near rawr, they are just the only other american guild that doesnt rely on olias as a core player.

Kaon · Jun 02, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

How about we don't talk VoD, as Anet doesn't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO?

Don't be dumb Divine, it's not like we have anyone that "counts" besides StS, sup (?) and maybe a couple others else I'm forgetting - and even those aren't rawr/dR level imho. While it may be true that Europe outnumbers yanks, the "top" level of the latter is clearly superior because we don't have people like eF or EW around anymore.

Not entirely true, it's just a combination of bad luck, bad choices, and wrong playstyle. for 11 months dR achieves exactly as much as almost any other random euro guild. And rawr simply plays the best style suited for a tournament, ohyeah and their leader is european.

The problem is european teams keep dying and reforming.

vD died, came back, and died again
EW died and never reformed
eF died and never reformed
Storm Baerers died, reformed and died again
There is the Cry, Eu, Euro division who died and reformed endlessly
dT died, reformed, and died again
(old) Be Team died, vZ died reformed and died, they now reform under be team, one of the best guilds in the game currently
Even StS has reformed multiple times.

This instability reflects in the results. Established teams tend to do so much better. Take a look at the results and you'll see that guilds that have been around a long time win so much more, this is because they know exactly what they're capable of.

Europe definately has the players to win, just lacking the organisation, and a bit of luck.

JR · Jun 02, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

The problem is european teams keep dying and reforming.

I really don't see how that is different to American teams.

Te died, reformed under Honk, died again.
Charr died, reformed under QQ, died again.
DF died.
iQ died, reformed with some QQ members and randoms under dR.
cow died.
MH died.
KGYU died.
tag died.
etc...

Varies members of the above have reformed under other guilds such as OG, best... etc, but most are inactive now. [rawr] is the only consistent guild I can think of.

Kaon · Jun 03, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I really don't see how that is different to American teams.

Te died, reformed under Honk, died again.
Charr died, reformed under QQ, died again.
DF died.
iQ died, reformed with some QQ members and randoms under dR.
cow died.
MH died.
KGYU died.
tag died.
etc...

Varies members of the above have reformed under other guilds such as OG, best... etc, but most are inactive now. [rawr] is the only consistent guild I can think of.

It isn't different at all, only there are 2 exceptions, rawr and dR, and those are the ones with golden capes.

Zabe · Jun 03, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

eF died and never reformed

apr

had some extra members and few guys missing from their CT lineup etc, but still.

But then comes the big question, why did they quit? Why do great people like that quit. Okay, real life kicks in etc. But why there isn't any guilds to replace them? I'd really like to see guild like eF with the ballsy playstyle coming from somewhere, tho it pretty much aren't happening.

InfernalSuffering · Jun 03, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Even though its off topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

But why there isn't any guilds to replace them? I'd really like to see guild like eF with the ballsy playstyle coming from somewhere, tho it pretty much aren't happening.

The main reason that doesnt happen, at least in the American timezone, is that guilds recognize the success that guilds like rawr and dR have had and try to emulate them. They run the same build and play with the exact same playstyle. In theory you should end up with a whole bunch of guilds like rawr and dR, but in practice you just end up with a bunch of bad copies (I'm looking at you [meow]). It's really the negative effect of what Akaraxle was talking about with rawr and dR being the best guilds in the game even though American guilds are far outnumbered by Euro guilds. There are guilds such as mine ([oK]) that attempt to not follow this pattern, but for the most part guilds try to leech off the success of top guilds and adhere to what they believe to be the template for guild wars success.

Not that I don't completely admire what kiSu is trying to do, but what they are doing isn't going to fix the problem. It might create more knowledgable players, but it creates a mid-level atmosphere that has been taught to listen and follow top guilds and the meta. In order to create a guild wars with a lasting future, new players need to be taught how to not only play the game but to also use their creativity to play the most effective.

Both Euro and American guilds reform a ton. When people expect a certain level of success and that is not met, they blame each other or the game. The people who blame each other reform with slightly different rosters. The people who blame the game stop playing.

tigros · Jun 04, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

Not that I don't completely admire what kiSu is trying to do, but what they are doing isn't going to fix the problem. It might create more knowledgable players, but it creates a mid-level atmosphere that has been taught to listen and follow top guilds and the meta. In order to create a guild wars with a lasting future, new players need to be taught how to not only play the game but to also use their creativity to play the most effective.

I think that what kiSu is trying to do is not meant to fix that problem but rather create those more knowledgeable mid level players as you put it. However, for these mid level players that have the potential to become top level players, in order to develop their creativity, you need to put them in contact with top level creative people, and this is one of the things that we're trying to do through our mentoring system. In terms of listening and following... we do encourage our people to think for themselves because when they reach a certain level they are expected to be able to do that...

Kaon · Jun 04, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

I dont believe shit of guilds holding other guilds back with their playstyle. If you have good players it's going to come out no matter what.

InfernalSuffering · Jun 04, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

I dont believe shit of guilds holding other guilds back with their playstyle. If you have good players it's going to come out no matter what.

If you play rawr's build against rawr every single night you are going to have a hard time beating them.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 04, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

If you play rawr's build against rawr every single night you are going to have a hard time beating them.

or you will at least learn how to play the build

Kaon · Jun 04, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

If you play rawr's build against rawr every single night you are going to have a hard time beating them.

It's the choice of the players doing so, and if they're not good enough to make a better choice, then so be it.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 04, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Vandal Hearts