Curse

Sir Mad · Jul 13, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

I hate posting on this type of forum cause it seems more like a bragging contest than anything else, but saying it takes no skill to win at random is often just ppl who consistantly fail and want to blame the system. If you lose, its always better to rationalize that the outcome was..."random." Well, I got my glad title playing mainly RA a week or so after factions came out cause I was guildless at the time. I found that about 70% of the times I entered (albiet as a monk), it would lead to an 8+ win streak. Most of the time you do end up on bad teams, but if you are deserving of a glad point, then you should be able to pull your team through it (yes I have won and have friends who have won points with ppl under lvl 20). For example, it is not uncommon for me to go through a 20-30 minute RA match, just keeping the group togethor till we got the job done. The automatic retort is "well you were playing a boon prot so thats unfair." Well...it seems like most of the ppl after a match complain about how easy and cheap a boon prot is to play so I see no reason that everyone can't do it then... As for RA versus TA, I wouldn't say RA is the red headed step child of TA. If you play with other ppl who are half decent, it is pretty easy to get a glad point (unless you run into HoT...yall are the best 4v4 guild out there now since Dtwo broke up). Just yesterday I ran a soul barbs mini spike and won 10 flawless. It seemed so pointless that we just left the game to go watch a friend in obs mode.

Edit: Yea sno, I just don't think it is some amazing feat compared to RA to get a glad point. Long streaks however 25-50 or beyond have always been impressive imo and are even more so since the competition has increased in 4v4 since the institution of the glad title.

Quoted for truth.

2 days ago I decided to go for this title. I also decided to get it in RA only. Why? Because I want to believe when you win 8/10 times with random people, it may also comes from you... I have played in RA maybe 5 or 6 hours in 2 days. I have 6 glad points so far. I know that provided there is no leaver/rage quitter, that everybody carry a rez sig and use it, and that everyone can press T, then I'm almost sure to get 1 more glad point. You need a strong build, and you have to bring some team spirit in this random group. That's enough to win. Of course you'll face a better team, or you'll just die because you're not enough concentrated, but I can say for me this title seems to be one of the easiest title to get (well.. expect lucky maybe

).

Concerning the bitter boys whining because you're a boon prot: they do that all the time. If you have a common build they'll tell you you're a noob and can't have an original build. If you don't have a common build, they'll be like: you're s*** as a ranger/monk/ass/whatever. Bitter boys are angry when they die. Everybody should mute the all chat there or ignore them.

Van Goghs Ear · Jul 13, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

whether you have a solid build or not, RA is still just luck of the draw. The player pool in random arena consists typically on new, inexperienced/template using players. Where's the challenge? The fact that a monk using armor of earth can do well in RA pretty much says it all, or an IW mesmer.

If you play in TA enough you encounter at least a few Random arena opponents each night, and ususally the ones you do encounter (the ones that were able to have a 10 win streak) managed to luck out with either a perfectly balanced team, or 2 monks. It's luck of the draw, no more, no less. And even these balanced teams get rolled in under 1 minute flat by my groups as we get the typical appologetic excuse "we were from RA". (no sh*t I always think to myself after they say it).

Don't get me wrong, RA is a great place for newb beginners, and hopefully a place that noob players will remain since they can't branch beyond it, and to some extent you can do some mild testing with certain builds. But winning in RA is nothing to be proud of. Playing in at least TA and beyond to GVG and HA is where you begin to truly develop as a player and surpass the individual survival build mentallity that plagues so many RA players (particularly wammos) and you begin to look at team builds that play out in a more complex manner that simply does not equal pressing the t button and following everyone else's target.

Run Red Run · Jul 13, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Well said Gogh. I consider myself fairly new to the PvP aspect of Guild Wars. When I was starting out, I viewed Random Arenas for what they are...Random...and went straight to Team Arenas. In doing so, I think I learned things much quicker AND in a team environment.

You still will not see me in RA because I'm allergic to PUGs.

Divineshadows · Jul 13, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

RA is still just luck of the draw

Here is the formula for how an RA match plays out IMO:

1. If one team has a monk with even a glimmer of skill (note a single non-smiting monk) and the other team does not have a monk, then almost always (somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time) the team with the monk will win.

2. Is one team capable of using rez sigs quickly after an allied death while the other team is completely incompetent in this area? If so, the team that uses their rez sigs wins.

3. Count up the number of players on each side that are running utterly useless builds. The team with fewer of these players wins assuming neither of the first two victory conditions were met.

Random Arena is a contest of "Do the nubs on your team suck less than the nubs on the opposing team?" and whether or not any individual gets a glad point from RA really is just luck of the draw as Van Gogh has said. Sure there are things you can do to increase your odds such as running solid builds, but in the end you are only 1/4 of your team and can only affect the outcome so much.

Here are some of the observations I have made from playing RA as different classes:

- Playing as a boon prot in RA does not equal autowin as some have suggested in this forum. There are so many times that you get paired with one or two other monks with the one or two remaining players on your team running low damage builds. If you don't leave this group quickly, then you can end up wasting a lot of time. I usually hang around to see if the team can win a match within the first 5 minutes and then leave after the first win. In other cases, you don't get paired with another monk but get paired with 3 waste of space characters that have no damage.

- Playing as a properly specced warrior or assassin in RA allows you to make sure that your team will have damage, but all too often you get paired with no monk or an incompetent monk that has no condition or hex removal. Empathic removal sever/gash/final sword warrior looks like it would have some good potential in RA.

- Playing a support character such as a crippling shot ranger is frustrating when you get paired on a team without a high damage melee character to take advantage of your snares. The other common case I see is a support ritualist with defensive spirits or trappers for ground control, but then the other 3 members of the team stay nowhere near the spirits or traps basically nullifying the advantages you were trying to gain for your team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

RA is a great place for newb beginners

I use RA for the following purposes with respect to PvP:

1. To try out a build I am unfamiliar with to learn some of the quarks before playing the build in larger team play (GvG, TA, etc.).

2. To remind myself what playing monk is like under extreme pressure. Oftentimes, all 4 members of the opposing team attack you especially when they do not have a monk. In addition, it is rare in RA that anyone on your team does anything to attempt to reduce this pressure or in turn pressure those that are placing the most pressure on their monk. It sucks at times, but it does help keep the skills sharp for when things break down in larger team play (GvG, TA, HA) and you have to try to keep things together.

3. To practice positioning as odd as this sounds. I've run both mesmer and ele builds in RA without a self heal before in RA and it really forces you to pay attention to your positioning relative to your teammates and your opponents. I've even run a martyr like ele build using ether prodigy, draw conditions, blinding flash, heal other, lightning orb, lightning strike, enervating charge, and rez sig. It may seem illogical to players to run a build where you are drawing poison and bleeding to yourself in RA with no self heal and some occasional self inflicted damage (albeit small) due to ether prodigy, but it really forces you to be extremely aware of your positioning assuming you are still trying hard to win with it. In the end, exercises like this can make you play better within a real team setting. Here is an example of how this type of practice can come in handy when playing against prepared teams (quoting self from another thread):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

At least the err7 happened exactly after we completed match number 30; could have been worse. This build was definately the most fun I have ever had playing cripshot in TA and was refreshing since I usually monk in TA. Even after your err7 and the other 2 leaving, I got thrown into a team that had just came from RA. The team had no monk, no means to remove conditions or hexes off of me, no healing breeze or heal other, and I had no self heal. Despite all of this, I still managed to win an additional 10 matches with this new team against teams that had a monk. Oftentimes, I found ways to survive with less than 30 health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

I have played in RA maybe 5 or 6 hours in 2 days. I have 6 glad points so far.

If you are content with this rate of faction gain and glad points, then keep playing RA but realize that RA will not get you [much] better as playing within a team. Guild Wars PvP is a team game and I think you'll find the faction rewards and glad point rate to be better in TA once you have mastered playing as part of a solid team. Trying to switch from RA to TA will likely be frustrating at the beginning, because the quality of teams in TA is orders of magnitude better than RA.

Sir Mad · Jul 13, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Here is the formula for how an RA match plays out IMO:

1. If one team has a monk with even a glimmer of skill (note a single non-smiting monk) and the other team does not have a monk, then almost always (somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time) the team with the monk will win.

No. Half of the succesfull teams I was in had no monk. Indeed a monk help, but it's not necessary. I have never been able to get 14 consecutive flawless victories without a monk, I have with one. However, flawless or not, you can still win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

2. Is one team capable of using rez sigs quickly after an allied death while the other team is completely incompetent in this area? If so, the team that uses their rez sigs wins.

True, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Random Arena is a contest of "Do the nubs on your team suck less than the nubs on the opposing team?" and whether or not any individual gets a glad point from RA really is just luck of the draw as Van Gogh has said. Sure there are things you can do to increase your odds such as running solid builds, but in the end you are only 1/4 of your team and can only affect the outcome so much.

It seems to make sense indeed, but again when you win 8/10 either you're really lucky (should ANET merge lucky and RA gladiator titles then?

), or maybe you're a lil more than this 1/4.

I agree with the other observations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

If you are content with this rate of faction gain and glad points, then keep playing RA but realize that RA will not get you [much] better as playing within a team. Guild Wars PvP is a team game and I think you'll find the faction rewards and glad point rate to be better in TA once you have mastered playing as part of a solid team. Trying to switch from RA to TA will likely be frustrating at the beginning, because the quality of teams in TA is orders of magnitude better than RA.

Don't get me wrong: I never said that RA will help you get better for TA or HA. Different skills are involved. Don't think either I play RA because I don't have TA or HA unlocked, or I can't get a team there. No, I'm not frustrated in TA. No I'm not doing this to gain factions either: I have nothing to do with the factions I get.

Someone earlier was talking about "the individual survival build mentallity that plagues so many RA players (particularly wammos)". Indeed, with such a mentality you couldn't go far in TA/HA. But that's how RA works. The rules are different. That's the game.

And no, again, I wouldn't be proud of this title. I'm not doing this for that. I won't even show it off. I'm doing this because I can, and because sometimes I fond some kind of fun in the chaotic rules of TA. I understand other players don't, but please let me do without assuming I'm a newb who do that because he hasn't unlocked further PvP locations or can't play them.

Van Goghs Ear · Jul 13, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I'm not saying if you play in RA you are a noob or newb, I am simply saying the greater pool of players in RA consist of that variety. I personally enjoy RA a couple times a week despite the fact that I have been UAX for a month and frozen at just under 1 million faction, thus having no actual reason to do it. But the way I look at it is that RA is just the mcdonalds of pvp, and while every now and again I get a craving for a big mac and fries, I sure don't want to eat it every night.

Divineshadows · Jul 13, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

And no, again, I wouldn't be proud of this title. I'm not doing this for that. I won't even show it off. I'm doing this because I can, and because sometimes I fond some kind of fun in the chaotic rules of TA. I understand other players don't, but please let me do without assuming I'm a newb who do that because he hasn't unlocked further PvP locations or can't play them.

I think you meant chaotic rules of RA. Indeed, trying to work with players on your team that often make completely random actions in their skill selection, movement, or positioning is challenging and sometimes downright maddening.

Never claimed you to be newb and was defending your stance to a degree by pointing out some of the good reasons that I still bother to visit RA on occassion.

Aug · Jul 13, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I enjoy the randomness of RA, and the accessibility of it. Joining TA when you're not in a guild is generally frustrating... I've usually had more luck in TA with the teams I've progressed through RA with than with the random PUGs put together in the TA districts. I've even managed to win a glad point in TA with an RA group without a Monk.

Kais Unduli · Jul 13, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I've found the best way to earn gladiator points is with a guild team in Team Arenas. I love Random too, but you can organize and play better with people you know in TA.

Sir Mad · Jul 13, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I think you meant chaotic rules of RA.

Yeah, of course lol

Sorry for this typo.

art_ · Jul 14, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I <3 RA. Its one of my favorite things about GW, despite the horrible players, moronic builds and unnecessary trash talking.

suiraCLAW · Jul 14, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

1. If one team has a monk with even a glimmer of skill (note a single non-smiting monk) and the other team does not have a monk, then almost always (somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time) the team with the monk will win.
2. Is one team capable of using rez sigs quickly after an allied death while the other team is completely incompetent in this area? If so, the team that uses their rez sigs wins.
3. Count up the number of players on each side that are running utterly useless builds. The team with fewer of these players wins assuming neither of the first two victory conditions were met.

I need to disagree with you about that first rule:
First of all: one skilled monk and three unskilled wammo's (even if they use res sigs) won't get far, even if they never meet a team with a monk. While somebody that can heal your party is always nice, having somebody who can prevent damage (spirits, interrupts, blinding flash spam) is as required as a healer.

Aug · Jul 14, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

An unskilled monk is probably the worst member on a team you can have. Good monks are invaluable... bad monks are a huge liability. Even a bad Warrior will have a chance (usually at least 25%) of targetting a caster and forcing them to kite a *little*. A bad Monk won't do anything but die. Quickly and repeatedly.

I'm more irritated when I see monks cast Mending than I am about Wammos doing it.

Divineshadows · Jul 14, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

I need to disagree with you about that first rule:
First of all: one skilled monk and three unskilled wammo's (even if they use res sigs) won't get far, even if they never meet a team with a monk. While somebody that can heal your party is always nice, having somebody who can prevent damage (spirits, interrupts, blinding flash spam) is as required as a healer.

Exactly why I could not make the first rule hard and fast, so I qualified it with a percentage. 3 unskilled wammos with 16 in their weapon attribute and a monk is very strong in RA actually. Or by unskilled are you assuming that the wammos brought only 8 or 9 in weapon attribute?

Van Goghs Ear · Jul 14, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Exactly why I could not make the first rule hard and fast, so I qualified it with a percentage. 3 unskilled wammos with 16 in their weapon attribute and a monk is very strong in RA actually. Or by unskilled are you assuming that the wammos brought only 8 or 9 in weapon attribute?

why would they bring anything more than 8 after spending hundreds of plat on that godly req 8 fellblade?

Celab · Jul 14, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

yep, and those are the teams who, 9 times out of 10, the team that does do a 10 win streak has to casually beat with their lucky 'random' team usually balanced with a monk to boot. It's like have you ever faced a team in TA with a monk, blindbot ele, edenial, and warrior proceed to tell you they are from random after you cream them? I always find that amusing, it's no different from obtaining a pug in TA, you just happened to get lucky with a balanced team in RA, there is absolutely nothing impressive about that. And even getting there without a monk, well like you said, most of the people playing there are not the brightest, or using paladin templates, so beating that is not much of a feat.

Infact, a while ago in RA i had something simular...

A blindbot (who left after 23 wins)
a me/r IW distractng pet thing (test build)
A assassin (me, ganking is fun

)
and a test build monk (essence bond + vengance for all

)

so overall... around 3 test builds w/ 1 cookie cutter. 23 wins from RA with that build and we only stopped because the ele had to go.

Must add, i didnt have a res signet. But whats 2 warriors anyway?

Pitha · Jul 14, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Today I was very unlucky... Me and my guild friends are playing Mesh Shutdown Build and its pretty strong. We ended at 9 wins ----- two times ---- I was a little bit angry so I shutdowned game and need to play PES 5.....

Ole Man Bourbon · Jul 15, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Losing on 10 sucks ass bigtime.

Zoskai Kultus · Jul 16, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

hmm.. made 11 glad points in the last 4 days.. this title is cake. I could see making 25 in a week very possible.

D E L E T E D · Jul 17, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I'd love to run into the people saying that TA is a joke to run into eat,ta,vis, etc . etc. and to see if then earning a glad title is easy.