Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · May 30, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Pact

I hope you're not serious by saying all a StS ranger does is crip the enemy flagger...
They might not play dedicated splits, but splitting in balanced counts as well imo

Pretty much yeah. All they do is send a ranger to your base so your flagger has to stay there all game and they try and semi power play, when you are down 2 guys from the stand while pretty much you always being a tad behind on flags...

Snow Bunny · May 30, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

StS may fall apart when it attempts to split, but its playstyle at least on an individual scale and tactics wise is very different.
Firefox and Godguard are nothing at all like Hexen and Polly.
Having Jatt and Asp should mean that rawr can play more interesting (meaning MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE) builds, but they choose not to, and I find that this is large in part due to Polly leading the team. Whereas StS's strengths for me seem to come in its backline, especially with Himi and Flaming.
Also, I find that Godguard is much more of an independent figure than either Polly or Hexen. Hexen is certainly most comfortable in the 8v8 situation, and everytime Polly extends away, he either dies or has Awowa camp Infuse on him. Godguard frequently takes initiative, especially when it means said initiative means a kill. I like Firefox's style, but I also really liked Acid on that team. Acid was a pretty aggressive player; seemed to complement Godguard nicely.
I'll agree that StS does the best when it's in an 8v8 situation, but then you could say that about dR...does that mean StS is euro of dR as well? dR only took gold using a rather definitely 8v8 build; placing their Ranger of all slots on a smiter. It's true rawr has much more success than StS, but StS as a guild is using the dynamic elements it has. rawr is not.

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 31, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

StS may fall apart when it attempts to split, but its playstyle at least on an individual scale and tactics wise is very different.
Firefox and Godguard are nothing at all like Hexen and Polly.
Having Jatt and Asp should mean that rawr can play more interesting (meaning MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE) builds, but they choose not to, and I find that this is large in part due to Polly leading the team. Whereas StS's strengths for me seem to come in its backline, especially with Himi and Flaming.
Also, I find that Godguard is much more of an independent figure than either Polly or Hexen. Hexen is certainly most comfortable in the 8v8 situation, and everytime Polly extends away, he either dies or has Awowa camp Infuse on him. Godguard frequently takes initiative, especially when it means said initiative means a kill. I like Firefox's style, but I also really liked Acid on that team. Acid was a pretty aggressive player; seemed to complement Godguard nicely.
I'll agree that StS does the best when it's in an 8v8 situation, but then you could say that about dR...does that mean StS is euro of dR as well? dR only took gold using a rather definitely 8v8 build; placing their Ranger of all slots on a smiter. It's true rawr has much more success than StS, but StS as a guild is using the dynamic elements it has. rawr is not.

Have you ever even played with ANY of those people?

Oh and dR never really had any success playing 8v8 builds unless they were hexes, dervspike or their 3 warrior 'pressure' build with 4 healers, a condition channeler and a bunch of VoD skills. They ran for the most part split oriented builds, so Tommy could run crazy monk bars without it causing them to wipe.

Lorekeeper · May 31, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I think some of you guys are reading way too much into this whole comparison between rawr and StS. Youre getting bogged down into in depth specifics about the guilds internal characteristics, when the parallel was made as a far more cursory commentary concerning their rigid 8vs8 playstyles.

Extending this parallel between Bdv and rawr is to some extent understandable if you consider Bdv's playstyle/build choice having adopted a rather rigid nature too. However, StS seems to be the most successful Euro guild of this playstyle... hence the whole ''euro equivalent of rawr'' comment. It wouldnt make any sense to name Bdv as rawr's euro equivalent. You could comment on how they share a similiar 8vs8 playstyle... no problem there.

Extending a comparison between rawr and dR makes no sense, since dR have only recently been running flag stand focused builds... only a few months ago were they running what I came to like them for, balanced with SF ele and ranger for high skirmish ability. dR have a history of running quite a diverse variety of builds, and are one of the remaining guilds who put in the effort to research into other guilds or the meta and try to think of builds to beat them... dR could be labelled as one of the most dynamic guilds, which would be in stark contrast to a guild like rawr who seem to be the opposite of dynamic. dR may have assumed an 8vs8 stance with their triple melee plague sig build recently, but that is where the similiarity ends. Its rather weak.

The comparison makes the most sense when made between StS and rawr, because they seem to show the most commitment to their favourite playstyle and perhaps show the most success at it (even if critiques might wish they broke away from their stubbornness). Analysed at far greater depth there are huge differences between the guilds... that much is clear to everyone.

Can we drop this issue and pick up on the discussion about whether its possible to spec vs a highly defensive playstyle like rawr's? I believe Kaon was the first to list some potential ideas...

Snow Bunny · May 31, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Oh and dR never really had any success playing 8v8 builds unless they were hexes, dervspike or their 3 warrior 'pressure' build with 4 healers, a condition channeler and a bunch of VoD skills. They ran for the most part split oriented builds, so Tommy could run crazy monk bars without it causing them to wipe.

They only got gold with an 8v8 build. So....

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 31, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

They only got gold with an 8v8 build. So....

You'd think someone attending Yale University would have learned how to read..

Snow Bunny · May 31, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

You'd think someone attending Yale University would have learned how to read..

......I do believe I read your statement, but I was qualifying it.

My point was that despite running split-oriented builds with Tommy running unorthodox monk bars, they only received gold when running an 8v8 build.

Sure, they developed the Mindblaster, and Tommy after the Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight buff ran a Blight bar with those skills on them, but (and yes, I understand there were disconnects, but you can't attribute all of it to dc's) they never won gold.

It wasn't until they ran a build that was meant for 8v8 that they won gold. Sure, you can say they're a split guild, but they're only a split guild until they run an 8v8 build which works decisely better.

Lorekeeper · May 31, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

dR won their gold cape running dual dervish, dual water ele, HeV mes gank on frozen isle vs [Me].

Their build was designed specifically to counter Me's predictable playstyle on frozen isle... something I would love to see people doing more of vs guilds like rawr.

The tournament they won vs rawr they ran dual dervish balanced spike... probably because if they ran a split build rawr would have turtled and just forced the stand battle at VoD. So knowing full well the match was going to VoD, they rolled unblindable teleporting melandru dervishes which rawrs blind ele would have been useless against, even then it was still a close match.

dR rolls builds catered towards their opponents and the maps... you cant generalise about them just by looking at what they run because what they run will change depending on who they are facing and where.

In the blind ele, ranger balanced meta they took a concept necro build from a euro guild and adapted it for an 8vs8 build that would turn all the blinds and poisons etc back onto opponents... including the infamous balth pendulum smite monk that made magehunter smash warriors cry all the way home. It was almost a perfect counter build and in some sense was an unfortunately indication of today's triple melee meta.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 01, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It wasn't until they ran a build that was meant for 8v8 that they won gold. Sure, you can say they're a split guild, but they're only a split guild until they run an 8v8 build which works decisely better.

It had nothing to do with them playing 8v8 and everything with the build they ran (4 healers, condi-channeler, putrid, splinter, smites), when running somewhat similar 'balanced' builds (R, Me, P or R, Me, E midlines) dR pretty much always had to split in order not to wipe.

In monthlies of course they often resorted to Dervspike and Hexes on 8v8 maps and in the april monthly they just had a very strong vod build.

DutchSmurf · Jun 01, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

There is nothing wrong with running 8vs8 builds anyway. It is all about how you run it. If rawr runs an 8vs8 build, they play it defensively, try to get to VoD with as many npcs as possible. If dR would run the same build, they would be playing it far more offensively, trying to get as many kills before VoD as possible.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 01, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

There is nothing wrong with running 8vs8 builds anyway. It is all about how you run it. If rawr runs an 8vs8 build, they play it defensively, try to get to VoD with as many npcs as possible. If dR would run the same build, they would be playing it far more offensively, trying to get as many kills before VoD as possible.

Evidently not, did you observe any of their matches?

Kaon · Jun 01, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Please explain what the "discussion" is about? The only thing i see is mitch calling out people who make retarded statements.

Shmanka · Jun 10, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

For the next balance update, they definitely need to nerf Signet of Humility, that is just the #1 wanted skill on my list that NEEDS some kind of modification.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 10, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

For the next balance update, they definitely need to nerf Signet of Humility, that is just the #1 wanted skill on my list that NEEDS some kind of modification.

No they don't, Signet oh Humility is fine, it's only a problem because of Mantra of Inscriptions.

Div · Jun 11, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Oh and dR never really had any success playing 8v8 builds unless they were hexes, dervspike or their 3 warrior 'pressure' build with 4 healers, a condition channeler and a bunch of VoD skills.

We are strong at rawrspike too

Mitch is sexy at calling people out.

This thread died.