Curse

Lorekeeper · May 21, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Developer_Updates

Added the link because it is somewhat easier to read than it is here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anet

[Dev Update] PvP/PvE Skill Balancing – 21 May 2008

With this week’s update we will introduce a new system to split certain skills into separate PvE and PvP versions. With this system we can update skills for one game type without affecting the other. To prepare players for the changes, we have decided to post this Dev Update as a preview. The skill changes will go live on May 22.

With the new system, we can restore skills to their original forms, so they are no longer impacted by PvP balance changes. For example:

* "Incoming!" "Incoming!": increased duration to 1..5 seconds; added PvP version with previous stats.

Where balance changes were required for PvP, but not PvE, the skill has been split and the changes will apply to the PvP version. For example:

* Assassin's Remedy Assassin's Remedy (PvP): increased Energy cost to 10.

We will be reintroducing the PvP balance changes that we tested from April 17 – May 1, but now these balance changes will apply only to PvP.

Skills that differ in PvP play will have (PvP) listed at the end of their names when viewed in PvP outposts and matches. These skills will automatically be adjusted within PvP outposts and matches. Players can equip their skills as normal, and the game will use the PvP version where appropriate.

We recognize that this is a new system, with different stats possible for the same skill in PvE and PvP. We intend to use this system to the benefit of all players, and maintain our dedication to careful evaluation of each skill that we balance. Since this is the initial roll-out for the new system, we altered more skills than we would expect to in future updates.
[edit] List of Skills Affected
[edit] Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE

In this update, we will restoring a number of skills so that they work similar to how they used to before various PvP-related game balances. Each of the following skill restored in this way will also have a PvP version:
[edit] Assassin

* Shadow Form Shadow Form: increased duration to 5..30 seconds.

[edit] Mesmer

* Energy Drain Energy Drain: decreased recharge to 20 seconds.
* Energy Tap Energy Tap: decreased recharge to 20 seconds; decreased casting time to 2 seconds.

[edit] Necromancer

* Discord Discord: decreased casting time to 1 second.

[edit] Elementalist

* Ether Renewal Ether Renewal: increased duration to 5..20 seconds; increased Energy gain to 1..4.

[edit] Monk

* Light of Deliverance Light of Deliverance: decreased recharge to 6 seconds.

[edit] Warrior

* "Watch Yourself!" "Watch Yourself!": increased number of attacks before "Watch Yourself!" ends to 10.

[edit] Ritualist

* Ritual Lord Ritual Lord: increased Spirit recharge reduction to 15..75%.

[edit] Ranger

* Penetrating Attack Penetrating Attack: increased damage to 5..25.
* Sundering Attack Sundering Attack: increased damage to 5..25.

[edit] Paragon

* "Incoming!" "Incoming!": increased duration to 1..5 seconds.
* Defensive Anthem Defensive Anthem: decreased activation time to 1 second.

[edit] Restoration of April Balance Changes (PvP)

We will also reintroduce the PvP balance changes that we tested from April 17 – May 1, along with a few other tweaks to skills. These balance changes will apply only to PvP.
[edit] Assassin

* Assassin's Remedy Assassin's Remedy (PvP): increased Energy cost to 10.
* Shadow Form Shadow Form (PvP): decreased duration to 5..15 seconds.

[edit] Necromancer

* Enfeeble Enfeeble (PvP): increased recharge to 10 seconds.

[edit] Elementalist

* Blinding Surge Blinding Surge (PvP): decreased recharge to 3 seconds; decreased Blind duration to 1..5 seconds.
* Ward Against Melee Ward Against Melee (PvP): decreased duration to 1..18 seconds.
* Lightning Orb Lightning Orb (PvP): this skill no longer causes Cracked Armor.

[edit] Monk

* Aegis Aegis (PvP): increased Energy cost to 15.

[edit] Ritualist

* Ancestors' Rage Ancestors' Rage (PvP): increased casting time to 1 second.
* Splinter Weapon Splinter Weapon (PvP): increased recharge to 8 seconds.
* Death Pact Signet Death Pact Signet (PvP): increased casting time to 4 seconds.
* Flesh of My Flesh Flesh of My Flesh (PvP): increased recharge to 10 seconds.

[edit] Dervish

* Mystic Sweep Mystic Sweep (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.
* Eremite's Attack Eremite's Attack (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.

[edit] Paragon

* "Never Surrender!" "Never Surrender!" (PvP): decreased duration to 10 seconds.
* Ballad of Restoration Ballad of Restoration (PvP): increased recharge time to 30 seconds.
* Harrier's Toss Harrier's Toss (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.
* Song of Restoration Song of Restoration (PvP): increased recharge time to 30 seconds.

[edit] Restoration of April Balance Changes (PvE and PvP)

These skills were part of the the April Balance change and needed to be restored for PvP balance but didn't warrant splitting the skills into separate PvE and PvP versions. Some are skill improvements we wanted to apply to both PvE and PvP; others are power reductions we felt would have minimal impact on PvE balance. The one exception is Steelfang Slash, which was not a part of the April Balance update. It was added to this list to deal with particular multi-weapon skill combinations that allowed a player to repeatedly chain knockdowns on an opponent.
[edit] Mesmer

* Hex Breaker Hex Breaker: this skill now counts as a Stance.
* Fragility Fragility: decreased Energy cost to 5.
* Fevered Dreams Fevered Dreams: decreased recharge to 8.
* Chaos Storm Chaos Storm: decreased Energy cost to 5.
* Energy Surge Energy Surge: increased Energy lost to 1..10; decreased damage done per Energy to 9.
* Energy Burn Energy Burn: increased Energy lost to 1..10; decreased damage done per Energy to 9.

[edit] Elementalist

* Glyph of Concentration Glyph of Concentration: decreased number of spells that cannot be interrupted to 1.
* Shockwave Shockwave: increased casting time to 1 second.

[edit] Warrior

* Disarm Disarm: decreased skill disable time to 0..3 seconds; increased recharge to 20 seconds.
* Steelfang Slash Steelfang Slash: increased recharge to 1 second.

Havent seen any meaningful discussion threads or contributions from any of the usual PvP commentators for months now.

Wonder if anyone cares to comment on these newest changes?

Note: Apparently *they* are aware of the current trend in GvG meta with Conjure+SoH stacks and signet mesmers etc. Unfortunately there wasnt enough time to deal with those issues in this update. I guess we will have to wait until after this MaT.

Until then, buildwars is still the real name of the game.

Divinus Stella · May 21, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Pretty stupid changes imo, the current meta is 3 physicals, usually a mix of those laughable instagib dervish things and button mashing warrior bars so anet thinks its a good idea to nerf melee hate.....

Its pretty easy to assume that nobody from Anet has watched a single GvG game within the last 3 weeks.

Gneppe · May 21, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Im wondering:

"Wheres the Wounding Strike nerf!?!?!!.."

Free Sigils · May 21, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I pretty much hated the April 1st Changes. I did an irl happy dance on May 1st. For reals. At the moment it dosen't affect what we've been running except for the hard res smacks. Seriously? Nerf Death Pact more? Wow. Flesh nerf is meh, but I digress, I think the ele nerfs are retarded the orb buff was the best ele buff in a long time, but noooo. Plus Arage. This is the Fifth nerf? Sixth? I've lost count over the years. Sheesh.

All in all I'm a malcontent atm. But I'll wait and roll with it for a few days before I completely make up my mind,

Kaon · May 21, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

I absolutely hate the bsurge and ward nerf, as it only serves to push the game into iwayish physical builds more. With noone running air eles anymore the punishment for frenzy is on an alltime low, with only perhaps an eburn or shatter to hurt you a bit.

In other news: i herd sinsplit wuz gud

Team Ramrod · May 21, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Absolutely horrible update.

Turbobusa · May 21, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I won't take enfeeble over enfeebling bloog in any build now

Ec]-[oMaN · May 21, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Not much to comment on. It's Aprils update all over again except for enfeeble. Heavy physical meta or split. So to please the PVE crowd we are behind one month of changes, can't believe Izzy and CO; couldn't have built upon the previous update(Aprils) and give us something worthy.

DutchSmurf · May 21, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

As most of Anet balance updates, it is behind the meta with a couple of weeks. But a couple of things that come to mind:
Nerfing Aegis in a meta with 3 melee characters must be the best thing ever.
No idea why an 1/4 second extra activation on a skill is enough to add a PvP version, but I'm sure there is a reason.
Why is an actually useful buff to Edrain only for PvE?
Surge, melee, see Aegis.
Orb, makes sense.
Assassin's Remedy, as always, missing the point.
Splinter Weapon, as always, missing the point. And should have been done in PvE too.
Paragon, try buffing the command line some so we can get interesting options instead of being forced into restoration.

"Watch Yourself!", completely misses the point.
Penetrating Attack, is that really enough for a PvP version?
LoD, happy PvE monks I guess.
Who cares about Incoming when you have PvE skills?

Yichi · May 21, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

yay another balance update 2 days before the monthly...

Razz L Dazzle · May 21, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

fails to address any of the current problems in GvG

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 21, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

the punishment for frenzy is on an alltime low

[Signet of Rage][Bane Signet][Signet Of Judgment]123456789012

Tyla · May 21, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

....*Speechless*....

LifesRestorer · May 21, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

good idea. nerf the OLD meta.

just cause the last update for the final mAT was a welcomed one doesn't mean it can be used as an excuse to do RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all for the one that is supposedly tomorrow. This is a half arsed attempt to keep our mouthes shut while they pussy about with making more overpowered PvE skills.

wheres the wounding strike nerf? wheres the change to make strength and honor not stack with conjures? god... gg anet. it would have been better if you didn't do anything... retards...

Lorekeeper · May 21, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Just wanted to point out that the usefuless of smite signet mesmers is somewhat reduced by the growing popularity of these [Wounding Strike] dervishes

I didnt like that buff to Wounding Strike the instant I saw it, and perhaps it should come as no suprise that with passive defenses in such a sorry state it is now being abused to hell. I saw a top guild trying to counter the physical pressure with an air ele and a water ele... they still died. I even saw a team running 3 air eles, who won against the 3 melee team but is that wat people are going to have to resort to in the MaT? If dR are playing Id like to see what they come up with, although their [Foul Feast] necro does go a long way to turning the huge deep wound and bleeding pressure around onto the other team.

Its almost like the balancers at Anet just wont stop gnawing at the age old bone that was the hate directed at blockwaywebs of yesteryear.

It seems that I would give anything to be able to hide inside a comfy layer of block defenses while I'm seeing deep wounds appearing on 2-3 of my team mates almost every other swing of a scythe.

I hate powerblock being run in these builds lol... cant even risk casting aegis anymore.

Come on people, bust out those hexes. Lets play buildwars!

Greedy Gus · May 21, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Havent seen any meaningful discussion threads or contributions from any of the usual PvP commentators for months now.

I can't really log-in anymore, but I get the feeling that there has been a pvp player exodus recently similar to the first main one about a year ago. At least this pvp forum has pretty much died a couple months ago like TGH did awhile back.

Brother Andicus · May 21, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

I've got 2 comments.

A) The whole concept of a need for changes for PvE is dumb. Clearly PvE is far too hard and we need uber defence skills to compensate ....................................or not.

B) I disagree with others about the changes for PvP. The meta may have included 3 physical characters for a while, but it has been reliant on passive defense (and overpowered monk elites) for nearly a year now.

Taking the 3 main nerfs individually:
Aegis - The change is just fine. Once upon a time this was used by support characters who had to sacrifice attribute points into prot rather than just loading it onto monk. Hopefully its use will go back to this.

Ward against Melee - I don't think the change really has any effect on this. If you are putting points in earth, you'll still take this skill. Again though, it takes no player skill to use, so making it essential to make the most of it is a good thing. + There are also options for clearing wards.

Blinding Surge - Again the change promotes player skill. By making the skill recharge faster, players that spam it will just burn their energy. Shorter duration makes it harder to blanket blind players. The way to use the skill now is to blind at the correct times.

In addition, there is still the curse line(nerfed but still workable), the water line and the illusion line to provide extra physical hate.

In other news, SoH and conjures stacking is indeed lame, but there are these nifty skills called enchant removals, and another called prot spirit. I'm sure people might discover them if they look hard enough.

Lightning orb change was indeed good, since cracked armour >> hammer warriors.

and @ Dutch smurf. Edrain wasn't buffed in PvP since it would be imba as hell. The inspiration line can already do some nasty draining as it is without giving it a buff.

Edit: More posts while I wrote this.

@ Lorekeeper. Blockwebs are hardly a thing of the past. They are very much the present as well. It is however about time they were consigned to the past.
And yes, dervishes are imba. I will however say the same thing as I have always said. It isn't their skills that are imba. Scythes themselves are.

Killed u man · May 22, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Am I the only one who understands jack sh!t of HOW to read the update?

So this means the skill remains unchanged for PvE and updated for PvP, or the way around? Or does it change in PvP to whatever they state, and i goes back to original (NF-release) for PvE, or the other way around?

Aaaah, ef it, I'll go play some Hello Kitty Island Adventure...

WHOEVER came up with this system should be shot on sight, I have a better idea:

[Insert Random skill] : PvP: "whetevr it does", PvE "whetever it does"

See, THAT'S how U make a clear update when you're splitting skills...

EDIT: nvm, I get it now, I had to read through it 4 times to get it... I don't see the point in adding (PvP) in the end when I can make it as simple as the example I gave. But then again, why make it simple when U can confuse everyone to the extend they don't even give a ...no more ^^

street peddler · May 22, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Am I the only one who understands jack sh!t of HOW to read the update?

So this means the skill remains unchanged for PvE and updated for PvP, or the way around? Or does it change in PvP to whatever they state, and i goes back to original (NF-release) for PvE, or the other way around?

Aaaah, ef it, I'll go play some Hello Kitty Island Adventure...

WHOEVER came up with this system should be shot on sight, I have a better idea:

[Insert Random skill] : PvP: "whetevr it does", PvE "whetever it does"

See, THAT'S how U make a clear update when you're splitting skills...

really not difficult......theyre making seperate versions of certain skills.

ex. they nerfed shadow forms duration in pvp to 5...15 because it was only used for griefing.

in pve the duration will be 7..35.

Krill · May 22, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gneppe

Im wondering:

"Wheres the Wounding Strike nerf!?!?!!.."

+1

Skill is retarded as is on a critical scythe or conjure derv.