Curse

Alleji · Apr 07, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

So after two weeks of playing mesmer, I decided to try something that has more impact on the game. As fun as migraine vs nub eles and necros is, you just can't single-handedly swing the match in your team's favour. With this bar, you can :P

[skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] [skill]Rotting Flesh[/skill] [skill]Barbs[/skill] [skill]Taste of Death[/skill] [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] [skill]Plague Sending[/skill] [skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] [skill]Signet of Midnight[/skill]

12+3+1 Death
9+1 Curse
9+1 SR

Monk friend recommended, unless you're godlike with SoLS.

I find this build works best on grenz if you're luxon and etnaran if you're kurzick. You ramp up some fiends from dead NPCs on the first two shrines on the enemy's side at the start of the game, then just camp the res orb shrine in front of enemy's entrance. Barbs + fiend spike takes down anything that attempts to run at you (a lot of people will attempt this more than once, lulz) and with a decent number of fiends and the NPC monk you can fend off pretty much anything less than half the enemy team. By constantly using BotM you can drag the NPC monks with you all the way to the mesmer and necro shrines if you need to defend those. Basically, I've controlled those 3 shrines on grenz alone for the most part, for the entire duration of the game several times.

This bar is probably harder to play than the usual MM stuff I see with 3 minions and 4 defensive enchantments, but it does way more damage with barbs and is actually more resilient imo if you can use all your utility properly.

EDIT: Pro tip for migraine mesmers - if you ever run into an ele casting meteor shower through migraine, try running up to him, doing /rank (/taunt or /dance will do as well :P) and then interrupting the spell at 9.5s through its cast. Best thing I've ever done in AB.

Riotgear · Apr 07, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

No offense, but I want to bitchslap anyone that takes Rotting Flesh into AB. WYour own team has zero disease protection, so you're basically just diseasing everybody in the area. I love bowling over a group and then seeing every teammate in the area diseased for duration because some necro thought that making someone die 1 second faster was worth it.

The only time it's even remotely useful is for dropping it on an enemy mob to grief them while you retreat, and I'd seriously question whether that's worth a skill slot. If you're not bringing Foul Feast or Tainted Flesh, don't bring Rotting Flesh, k?

Alleji · Apr 07, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

No offense, but I want to bitchslap anyone that takes Rotting Flesh into AB. WYour own team has zero disease protection, so you're basically just diseasing everybody in the area. I love bowling over a group and then seeing every teammate in the area diseased for duration because some necro thought that making someone die 1 second faster was worth it.

The only time it's even remotely useful is for dropping it on an enemy mob to grief them while you retreat, and I'd seriously question whether that's worth a skill slot. If you're not bringing Foul Feast or Tainted Flesh, don't bring Rotting Flesh, k?

I want to bitchslap anyone who makes assumptions about how I use skills. I mentioned that I spend most of the time solo, or with one monk/npc monk. It's excellent extra damage vs multiple people and vs NPCs guarding shrines, since I'm not meleeing them. When I'm with a group, I don't use it unless it will cause substantially more damage to the enemy team than to my own.

Yes, it's not the strongest skill on the bar, but the alternatives are deathly swarm, which is a terribaed generic nuke or more utility.

I also want to bitchslap people who say "no offense" as if that actually negates the offense.

itsvictor · Apr 07, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Turrent? You mean Turret Ranger...

Victor loves his new tribal axe so I've been playing w/ a conjure eviscerate bar.

12+1+1 axe
8+1 str
10 water magic(or element of your choice)

Eviscerate,executioners,bullstrike,distracting strike, frenzy,rush,conjure frost(or element of choice)

For the last skill it's usually shield bash or res sig or "iway"(lol it's actually quite useful sometimes),etc

Riotgear · Apr 07, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

It's excellent extra damage vs multiple people and vs NPCs guarding shrines

If there are lots of enemies and few allies, I'd have to ask why you think engaging them is a good idea.
If there are few enemies and a lot of allies, grats on griefing your team.
If there are a lot of enemies and lots of allies, you're really just harming both sides.
If there are few enemies and few allies, then 8 DPS per target is pretty shit.

It's a terrible skill in almost every situation there. The bitchslap is deserved because not only is it terrible, it's harmful to your teammates. The only thing worse is bringing nature rituals.

Swap with Foul Feast or Rip Enchantment. If you're trying to gank people in small-scale fights, then spamming Deathly Swarm on recharge does about 50% more damage than disease.

Bobby2 · Apr 08, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I can't begin to recall the number of times when I've thought of a fellow Luxon 'keep your gddmn STDs to yourself'.

Maybe you should go /A for Blinding Powder if you think melee Blind is actually gonna save you. It would allow replacement of that crap Elite.
[skill]tainted flesh[/skill], anyone? If you're infected better bring protection!

Molly Moll · Apr 08, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I mentioned that I spend most of the time solo, or with one monk/npc monk.

Hey...I'm not going to wade into the argument about your build specifically....

What I will say is by going it alone you create a 3 man team who could probably use your help- unless you're with a coordinated team who know what you up to or are doing other solo activities (trapping). I have only had a few teammates in pug's go solo and it really, really made me wish I hadn't taken them. Ab should be fun, but others shouldn't have to suffer..I always tell people when I'm running trapper, for instance, so they can decide to kick me if they like.

Only my 2 cents....

Patrick Smit · Apr 08, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Nah solo can be cool if team has enough power to cap (basically that needs two man, to not instantly die when players mix in). But solo is also cool when u start to gain overhand, or want to gain it, by protecting shrines as a monk. As a ranger to cripshot teams on the move, and split them, etc.

Alleji · Apr 09, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I can't begin to recall the number of times when I've thought of a fellow Luxon 'keep your gddmn STDs to yourself'.

Maybe you should go /A for Blinding Powder if you think melee Blind is actually gonna save you. It would allow replacement of that crap Elite.
[skill]tainted flesh[/skill], anyone? If you're infected better bring protection!

"Must follow an off-hand attack"

Also, if sig of midnight is a crap elite, why is everyone and their mother running a Me/N with it and plague sending in TA?

Quote:

If there are lots of enemies and few allies, I'd have to ask why you think engaging them is a good idea.
If there are few enemies and a lot of allies, grats on griefing your team.
If there are a lot of enemies and lots of allies, you're really just harming both sides.
If there are few enemies and few allies, then 8 DPS per target is pretty shit.

1 - Because I have a bunch of fiends following me around?
3 - As long as I'm harming enemies more, it's fine by me. If you disagree, I'm glad I don't play with scrubs like you.

Pro tip: you can also solo cap shrines with it (although slowly) and not get owned by 140 damage lightning hammers.

Shuuda · Apr 09, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

"Must follow an off-hand attack"

Also, if sig of midnight is a crap elite, why is everyone and their mother running a Me/N with it and plague sending in TA?

1 - Because I have a bunch of fiends following me around?
3 - As long as I'm harming enemies more, it's fine by me. If you disagree, I'm glad I don't play with scrubs like you.

Pro tip: you can also solo cap shrines with it (although slowly) and not get owned by 140 damage lightning hammers.

Well:

1. TA =/= AB
2. TA is meh anyway
3. You just called Riotgear a scrub, lol, he seems much more respectable than you.
4. Solo capping is best left in the hands of people who acn do it fast and can survive on their own. The minute a Ranger sees you solo capping, he's gonna own you (assume he has the brains to use cripple, or just smart in general.)

frojack · Apr 09, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Man... It's AB. Run whatever the hell you want, it's about having fun at the end of the day. All this talk about what you 'should' and 'shouldn't' run, or how you 'should' or 'shouldn't' play, just makes AB seem to be far more important than it actually is...

Just for that, I'm gonna' run 40/40 Rotting Flesh the next time I play AB and get a guildie/F Lister to run a Virulence Sword warrior...

Alleji · Apr 09, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Well:

1. TA =/= AB
2. TA is meh anyway

I agree on both points, but it is still widely and effectively used, even if in another arena. I don't think that merits a "crap elite" label. Nobody runs divert hexes in AB, for example, but it's still an excellent counter vs hexway.

Quote:

3. You just called Riotgear a scrub, lol, he seems much more respectable than you.

His mentality of "harming yourself/your team = bad" makes him a scrub, plain and simple. Regardless of whether he is respected on forums or not. I mean, if it causes more damage to the enemy, which in turn helps you win, I really don't understand the problem. You ultimately derive benefit from it. By his logic BiP is a bad skill? Or infuse? (If I'm misinterpreting this, feel free to clarify, but from the comments he made so far, that's what I'm getting.)

Quote:

4. Solo capping is best left in the hands of people who acn do it fast and can survive on their own. The minute a Ranger sees you solo capping, he's gonna own you (assume he has the brains to use cripple, or just smart in general.)

When an opportunity arises, you might as well take it. At least I prefer to.

As a side note... wow, didn't think Rotting Flesh would stir up this much controversy. That makes me want to run Rotting, NR and EoE and take screenshots of the chat.

Riotgear · Apr 09, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

1 - Because I have a bunch of fiends following me around?

Lots of bone fiends vs. lots of players...
My money's on the players, especially when the only person they need to kill is you.

Quote:

3 - As long as I'm harming enemies more, it's fine by me. If you disagree, I'm glad I don't play with scrubs like you.

Or you could... you know, bring something that harms your enemies more and doesn't harm your allies.

Quote:

Pro tip: you can also solo cap shrines with it (although slowly) and not get owned by 140 damage lightning hammers.

Pro-tip: Almost anything with any kill power can solo cap a shrine. Anything with any form of self-heal can solo the air ele shrine. Bring TEAMMATES and you don't need to tank lightning hammers alone.

Also, as noted, spamming Deathly Swarm does more damage and consequently caps shrines faster.

Quote:

I mean, if it causes more damage to the enemy, which in turn helps you win, I really don't understand the problem.

Does the term "net gain" mean anything?

Quote:

By his logic BiP is a bad skill? Or infuse?

If you're carrying BiP or Infuse then you almost certainly brought something to deal with the negative effects of it. I assure you than randoms in AB are not bringing things to clean up disease.

Quote:

That makes me want to run Rotting, NR and EoE and take screenshots of the chat.

If you want to be a dick, you go to FA:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Riotgear

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

=All this talk about what you 'should' and 'shouldn't' run, or how you 'should' or 'shouldn't' play, just makes AB seem to be far more important than it actually is...

The purpose of this thread is to discuss builds and their viability/quality.

moriz · Apr 10, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

cripslasher variant
W/N
sword=12+1+1
str=11+1
tac=5
curse=4
crippling slash {E}
gash
body blow
bull's strike
sprint
healing signet
frenzy
rip enchantment

the synergy between the new rip enchantment and gash is quite strong. with the new gash and body blow, this warrior gets going faster than an eviscerate build while still managing decent DPS and spike.

Bobby2 · Apr 10, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

^----- gonna test that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

"Must follow an off-hand attack"

Oh, ffs. Smoke Powder Defense, Throw Dirt, Ash Blast k? At least pretend to think along and be open to suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Man... It's AB. Run whatever the hell you want, it's about having fun at the end of the day.

Ruining others' fun can be great entertainment. As long as one doesn't try to present it as 'good'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

His mentality of "harming yourself/your team = bad" makes him a scrub, plain and simple. Regardless of whether he is respected on forums or not. I mean, if it causes more damage to the enemy, which in turn helps you win, I really don't understand the problem. You ultimately derive benefit from it. By his logic BiP is a bad skill? Or infuse? (If I'm misinterpreting this, feel free to clarify, but from the comments he made so far, that's what I'm getting.)

Starting off with an insult always gets the masses going. There's the tiny matter of control involved; whereas the spread of Disease can run rampant regardless of side, one at least knows who (s)he's BiPing. Comparing the two skills is just... odd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

As a side note... wow, didn't think Rotting Flesh would stir up this much controversy.

You're a noob.

Riotgear · Apr 10, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

3. You just called Riotgear a scrub, lol, he seems much more respectable than you.

By most measures I am a scrub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the synergy between the new rip enchantment and gash is quite strong.

That's clever to say the least. Wouldn't enraging charge work a bit better than sprint since the cripple's likely to stick?

Bobby2 · Apr 10, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Coming back from testing Moriz' build

The shorter recharge on Sprint makes it
- a better run skill
- a better Frenzy cancel

I tried swapping in Flail for Frenzy but it turned the build to shite. Not surprising since its main strength is quick build-up but I was stubborn enough to try

Must say S&MSlash worked out better for me than Body Blow.

frojack · Apr 10, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

My bad Riotgear:

@Bobby2:
You can't just say 'ruin other's fun' so plainly like that. There is a distinctive tactical choice to running heavy degen. The same principal applies to running ranger spirits like Toxicity or Lacerate. If you are confident your team can inflict more conditions and handle them better than the opposition, it is a 'good' tactical choice.
If you decide to play AB 'solo' (or pug with abandon), and 'not' take into account the different types of 'damage' your going to face, that's your own fault. Being able to make a team of 4 is one of the reason AB is any good in the first place...

In terms of synergy, Sprint is better than Enraging if you plan to use Frenzy. It's lower recharge makes it a better Frenzy cancel (dubious on a Rush-less bar but w/e) and allows effective chasing of kiting targets (crips slash is great but it doesn't always work out). You can supplement the AD engine with Lion's Comfort, which I find is more effective that Heal Sig in typical AB situations.

S&M is such a fine skill. It's an example of the direction I'd like sword to go in. It has quality where it counts (extra AD strike, unblockable, can be as much as effectively +53 damage, functions well with +damage modifiers like Harriers Haste) and is fairly well balanced (effectiveness drops off on high al targets quicker than +skills and dual attacks hurt a LOT if your in frenzy and get hit by Empathy before you can cancel the skill. Insidious isn't as bad but it can still be a significant chunk of HP loss).

In the spirit of taking part:

In between GvG's (the ever waning frequency of which is annoying) I've begun playing AB again (since TA is now officially a joke).

Bulls
Backbreaker
Crushing
Heavy Blow (Protectors. Energy heavy but I love this skill on hammers)
Flail
Enraging Charge
Deaths' Charge/Mend Touch/Rush
Lion's Comfort

Use your typical hammer set up (vamp, sundering, Ele) then run a shield and spear set. There are some interesting tricks you can do with Enraging and spears for AD gain.
Amusingly, running as spear/shield as your primary 'standby' set can lead some AB'ers into a false sense of security that you just don't see anywhere else. The people smart enough to kite (few) don't do so as effectively. You then just whip out the hammer and beat their faces in. You lose initial auto damage, but a monk is less likely to be under Guardian for example when you spike. So very satisfying...

Riotgear · Apr 10, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

You can't just say 'ruin other's fun' so plainly like that. There is a distinctive tactical choice to running heavy degen. The same principal applies to running ranger spirits like Toxicity or Lacerate. If you are confident your team can inflict more conditions and handle them better than the opposition, it is a 'good' tactical choice.

There's a reason that Lacerate/Toxicity are run with Pure Was Li Ming and disease is run with Tainted Flesh, because you're really not pushing things in your favor very much if you have to eat their drawbacks. Causing everyone on both sides to take -4 degen isn't really helping either team, and if it is helping one more than the other, the difference is very slight.

moriz · Apr 10, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

the only time where disease spread without tainted flesh (or mass condition removals) is beneficial, is when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will cause the other team to crumble under the additional pressure. in that case, the added pressure against yourself is justified since it also caused the other team to explode.

however, that applies ONLY in organized play with clearly defined frontline/midline/backline. AB is generally too chaotic for this style of play. since you most certainly cannot control the vast majority of your teammates, disease without counters is just asking for trouble.