Curse

American Redneck · Jun 08, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I see a lots of QQing on these threads and forums about a variety of Gimmick builds (sway, rspike, and ritspike come to mind) and numerous people calling for nerfs of a variety of skills and builds.

My question is this- When was HA not gimmicks? I've only been around for a few months, so this isn't the beginning of a defense for gimmicks or an attack on someone. I'm honestly curious. Are we talking pre-IWAY? Pre-pre-IWAY? Was there actually a time when people didn't copy other people's builds?

Guild Wars isn't an ancient game by any means, so a time frame would also be helpful.

Icy The Mage · Jun 08, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

HA was always, and always will be gimmicks, for the most part.

jonnieboi05 · Jun 08, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

hmm... when it was 6v6 it neccessarily wasn't all gimmick. a LOT of builds were introduced and literally almost every month a new meta came out. so, in conclusion, 6v6 was the lesser of HA's gimmick rep.

~LeNa~

Horace The Great · Jun 08, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

hmm... when it was 6v6 it neccessarily wasn't all gimmick. a LOT of builds were introduced and literally almost every month a new meta came out. so, in conclusion, 6v6 was the lesser of HA's gimmick rep.

~LeNa~

I agree, though after paragon nerfs.

In old days people played with 3 monks, so 5 other characters. Now they play with 2 monks (most of the time), so 6 other characters. You would say there are more options of builds in 2 monk backlines, but compared with the old days there aren't more build.

Pesi · Jun 08, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

no matter what people play, except balanced, will it be called gimmicks.
people copy eachother because when they see something better, they run it aswell.
Its in the human nature to improve.

danilovic · Jun 08, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

6v6 was the king of gimmicks.

I'd say the meta we have right now is the most gimmick free.

I D E L E T E D I · Jun 08, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by danilovic

6v6 was the king of gimmicks.

I'd say the meta we have right now is the most gimmick free.

Plzz tell me your joking.

RotteN · Jun 08, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

there were gimmicks since the beginning of Tombs of the primeval kings. Well, maybe not the absolute beginning, cause back then nobody knew what was going on. But after a short while, the first "gimmicks" (as in broken or overpowered builds) started showing up. On the top of my head i remember Chain Lightning spike, oath shot spirit spam, ether renewal smite, ranger spike, IWAY, ... as old gimmicks

RhanoctJocosa · Jun 08, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

oh how i miss that shit

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Jun 08, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

I believe the first gimmick/meta was iway, unless anyone can remember one pre that

Killed u man · Jun 08, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Yeah, and the smart and experience people arn't QQ'ing about the fact there is gimmicks. EVERYONE runs gimmicks... Because of NF skill imbalances, running a non-gimmick would simply put U at such a disadvantage you simply can't win... ANY balance you see will have a splinter rit, with or without Warmongers. From that point on, you really can't call it "balanced" no more, because of the one-dimensionalism of the Rit...

I mean, if U go by the "diversity" of the build to label it balanced: My ritspikes can do 4/4 splits and stay alive. We have a PD so we can play defensivly, we can fall back (With the actual skill

) on a split, and kill 1-2 of them. We can Focus on snaring and staying alive...

According to what most people find the "line" for balance, my ritspikes have ALL they need to be in that category. Ok, we don't have the warrior, or the ele, or the mesmer, but we can just about as much as your theoretical balanced.

So for one, there is no point in splitting the balanced-non balanced builds all together. Simlpy because in HA, you hardly found any balanced. At best, it sometimes was a GvG bar, combined with something typical lame HA (To give it the buff it needs to rape sheit).

So now to the real reason why people QQ (Smart/good people):

Gimmicks have always appeared and disappeared within 2 weeks-2 month lifespan. (Sometimes longer)
So if people were frustrated, they would only have to wait a few weeks, for new skills to be throw into the meta, and shifting the HA builds.
Now (Pretty much last 1-1.5 years), we are stuck with the same meta for what, a year now? In overal, 1 thing changed about the build (sway): Thumpers => R/D's...

Most of GW fun comes out of the bars/profession you play, and play against. Playing 100+times against exactly the same gimmick simply isn't fun. It has even got a name within the MMO scene: grinding.

That's what HA has been since few months. Grinding. Grinding through the first few maps, so U MIGHT reach HoH, so U MIGHT get KoTH and have some fun. And for me, KoTH is still somewhat worth playing for. (Aside from Relic Run and Cap Points still sucking, I can also find myself enjoying them. But on about 80% on overal Cap Points map, someone gets ganked at 1-2 minutes, because a third team can't win anymore...)

In other words, we want sway nerfed (NOT for it's OP-ness but for it's boringness), we want a NEW button-bash to arise, so we can steamroll over that one for the next few months... We want current "balanced" to be swifted around. I doubt anyong still enjoys playing hexway, legoway, or any variaty of "balanced" builds that abuse Fire eles and splinter rits...

evenfall · Jun 08, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Chain Lightning Spike and Ranger Spirit Spam predate IWAY and are the earliest gimmicks i remember.
It was after the death of spirit spam that other builds like dual smite, various spikes, IWAY start flourishing, and eventually IWAY rose to dominance.

assassin of the god · Jun 09, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

There have always been gimmicks, and they have always been annoying. The reason,I believe, that so many people in tombs complain about gimmicks is that there are many more types of gimmicks than in the early days of tombs. Back when there were only 1-2 spike builds and few other assorted gimmicks, you could run a balanced build that could counter most, if not all of them. Now, it is considerably harder to run a balanced build that has counters for this wide variation of gimmick builds. This all stems from that a balanced build has to counter another build to be successful, while a gimmick only has to exploit a weakness.

erk · Jun 09, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Gimmick
noun
1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

I think what you would call a gimmick in GvG terms, is probably normal in HA, I honestly don't think HA has much in the way of gimmicks, more a rock->paper->scissors style of specialization.

Both HA and GvG are 8v8 and share the same skill pool, but that's where the similarity ends. A.net tend to balance for the vocal minority at the top of the GvG food chain, so what you get is GvG pressure for everyone playing the same bars for 20min+, vs the HA desire to play many different bars to keep it quick, interesting and avoid grinding. The two are at odds so even though HA is the more popular format nowadays, you are stuck with slow variations due to GvG's needs.

Coming up with a new HA team build that actually works is pretty hard without some selective pressure to help you, so you get people sticking with what works for them. You just have to accept that, keep grinding and experimenting as best as you can until someone develops a new build that works or A.net change some skills that provide a new opportunity. When that change occurs people are quick to label change a gimmick but if enough people play it for long enough you would have to say it was normal not gimmick.

zling · Jun 09, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

HA was, is and always be full of gimmicks. why you ask? the answer is very simple...
HA was, is and probably will always be about the reward, be it HoH uniques in the old days to just Fame now.
when all people want is the reward they'll use the easiest and fastest method to achieve it.
gimmicks do exactly that which is why they're used in HA.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 09, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

[chain lightning] ["I will avenge you!"] and teh spirit spam are the ones taht come to mind

but yea zlings right it has and always will be full of gimiks

Ate of DK · Jun 09, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Always been full with gimmicks and will always be full with gimmicks.

There is no such thing as a "balanced build" in Heroes Ascent because you're forced to bring several skills to survive maps. Try winning the relic-run in the Hall of Heroes without a speedbuff. Your chances of winning are very low.

Edge Martinez · Jun 09, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Redneck

so a time frame would also be helpful.

Within a few months after Prophecies release, I remember a dude asking me to play a ranger/warrior. IWAY. 7 of us and a necro. For awhile it was funny watching people kill the pets and then realize that was the plan. It must have been just as funny when we thought we were owning a team of necros, and they death bombed us. However, prior to this I clearly remember the air ele spike groups, and the trappers. And even before that, within just weeks of release, I remember people trying different 'gimmicks', like 8 monk teams, and 8 mesmer teams. So your time frame may just be from 'shortly after release.'

Kyp Jade · Jun 11, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Took several months for popular builds to start popping up. There werent gimmicks, as you know them today. Gimmicks you call today are builds with fairly strict skill sets. Things like, YOU MUST take this skillbar, or at least these 5 or 6 skills on that bar.

Back then, before chain lightning or Ether renewal smite, you had people grabbing three monks, taking a concept, and running with it.

An example, energy denial or shutdown was a beast back then, wasnt popular because people still liked to do whatever they felt like that day. But most teams that won in the early days took something overpowered and ran with it. Your build couldve been anything from 3 wars 2 mesmers 3 monks to 1 war 2 eles 2 mesmer 3 monks, and wouldve been considered in the same 'gimmick' category because your build FUCTIONED like similar builds that people have run against. Plus back then you had multiple means to get to the same end, again Ill use the e deny/shutdown 'gimmick'. You had energy drain, which popped 20 energy in 1 spell, or blackout/gale to get lockdown in multiple spells.

Take a moment to let that FUNCTION word sink in, because, at least when I quit, all gimmick builds were exactly the same with a few skill changes here and there, and then some people slightly better at running them than otheres. But it was always the same.

When I quit, THIS player did THAT to get this done.

When I started, SOME player did SOMETHING OR THE OTHER to get this done.

very different, the way you approach gimmicks today, such as sway, is to wand the trappers (thier pressure) and kill at your own pace.

There were similar ways to approach a gimmick back then, but the problem is, you didnt know who did what, you didnt immediatly know how they did it (you had to figure it out as fast as u can). You couldnt adjust to thier strategy until you figured out what was going on.

Z Y O N · Jun 12, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

well in the time I have been playing.... From the beginning HA is about taking advantage of any slight advantage. Spirits were able to be stacked so ranger-teams were big. Then Rangers could have double orders stacked and do impossible-to-heal damage. IWAY was just tons of DMG in many places. CG rangers were big for a while there. Blood spike was another fame farming build. But if you don't have a guild group or some friends that play together alot then you are going to have to play some of this just to get your rank going.