Curse

Ka Tet · Jun 16, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

thats why you need frequent intelligent skill balances, hence we need to build a better izzy

Akaraxle · Jun 24, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

There are many good posts how to fix the game on guru but they are being constantly ignored. I believe izzy just reads his talkpage on wiki maintained by pve'rs who contribute with their retarded ideas how to change pvp.

Izzy has his own share of advisors, many of which belong to former top PvP guilds. The problem is that in the end he tends to do what he thinks is right, and that advice coming from top players is not necessarily good advice.

skakid9090 · Jun 24, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Cap points is bad because it requires you to think? o ok

People cry gank too much in cap points, it's the most fun of the 3 gametypes and requires the most thought. It also promotes more balanced and less gimmicky spikey builds (excluding sway).

If you don't like cap points, it's because you're terrible at anything that doesnt require you to "lol kill" things.

Killed u man · Jun 24, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by skakid9090

Cap points is bad because it requires you to think? o ok

People cry gank too much in cap points, it's the most fun of the 3 gametypes and requires the most thought. It also promotes more balanced and less gimmicky spikey builds (excluding sway).

If you don't like cap points, it's because you're terrible at anything that doesnt require you to "lol kill" things.

If team sends X back, you send X back...

I fail to see how that is hard... If you think Capture Points requires ANY insight, well, then you're a VERY simply minded person.

No offence, It's not like I "hate" simple minded people, I just find it sad when people think they are "skilled" when they solve the mathematical principles of something very simple, such as Cap points.

Like I explained a million times already, the HoH map itself does NOT favor splitting. The bridge, the short, straight forward route to the enemy base, the small bridge simply does NOT promote "ganking"... It simply promotes full team ganks.

Funny thing is, more often than not, I win cap points. Simply because MOST people, as simple as it is, don't get cap points. They fail to see the simple principle: >0 = capping, 0 = holding, <1 = losing a base...
For example: the second ANY team sends ANY amount of people to another team's base, the third team will have 2 bases... I always loose because I'm still naturally hated by 4-5 people who often get to HoH, and they prefer to play to gank, than play for fun/to win.

At the end of the day, the team that does NOT engage, or get engaged at ALWAYS wins... It promotes passive play, it promotes lame play, it promotes retarded play. How is trying to "avoid" active fights and thinking skillfull?

Cap points is a random system, that maybe 1 out of a 100 times allows the most skilled team to win. The other 99 times a random team wins, the team that was most passive during the match...

Ciric · Jun 24, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If team sends X back, you send X back...

I fail to see how that is hard... If you think Capture Points requires ANY insight, well, then you're a VERY simply minded person.

No offence, It's not like I "hate" simple minded people, I just find it sad when people think they are "skilled" when they solve the mathematical principles of something very simple, such as Cap points.

Like I explained a million times already, the HoH map itself does NOT favor splitting. The bridge, the short, straight forward route to the enemy base, the small bridge simply does NOT promote "ganking"... It simply promotes full team ganks.

Funny thing is, more often than not, I win cap points. Simply because MOST people, as simple as it is, don't get cap points. They fail to see the simple principle: >0 = capping, 0 = holding, <1 = losing a base...
For example: the second ANY team sends ANY amount of people to another team's base, the third team will have 2 bases... I always loose because I'm still naturally hated by 4-5 people who often get to HoH, and they prefer to play to gank, than play for fun/to win.

At the end of the day, the team that does NOT engage, or get engaged at ALWAYS wins... It promotes passive play, it promotes lame play, it promotes retarded play. How is trying to "avoid" active fights and thinking skillfull?

Cap points is a random system, that maybe 1 out of a 100 times allows the most skilled team to win. The other 99 times a random team wins, the team that was most passive during the match...

I just like quoting you

! The problem with cap points isn't the game style, but the way people play it. Almost everyone now plays a '2-point' game, their base and the center. Thats fie if you want to play that way, but in that case 9/10 times the team with 3 fire eles a profane, and 3 monks wins. Also, any team that trys to play offensively, (exp. (lets assume we are blue, and red has the center) we send 1 war, 1 ele, and a rt with heals to the red base), is then accused of ganking, and all 8 red go to blue base. It is the mind set of HA players that make the game style dumb and boring, not the style itself.

skakid9090 · Jun 24, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Cap points is a random system, that maybe 1 out of a 100 times allows the most skilled team to win. The other 99 times a random team wins, the team that was most passive during the match...

...................No.

Takida · Jun 25, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by skakid9090

...................No.

Yes....

12 chars

skakid9090 · Jun 25, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takida

Yes....

12 chars

So teams that win cap points multiple times while holding (happens often) are just lucky enough to win with a 1% chance multiple times?

Try using logic sometime, it helps.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Jun 25, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Owned...

Im guessing when raining fame was holding yesterday with a archer hench was just luck? then your percentage would be .05% with your math.

Takida · Jun 25, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by skakid9090

So teams that win cap points multiple times while holding (happens often) are just lucky enough to win with a 1% chance multiple times?

Try using logic sometime, it helps.

sigh

Capture Points:

Let the other team go for eachothers points, Play passive.
I didnt say luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

Owned...

Im guessing when raining fame was holding yesterday with a archer hench was just luck?

This guy must be so awesome

Killed u man · Jun 25, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by skakid9090

So teams that win cap points multiple times while holding (happens often) are just lucky enough to win with a 1% chance multiple times?

Try using logic sometime, it helps.

You're pretty pro at math, let me lay it out here for you:

1 our of a 100 was a random nr that wasn't even so far from what it prolly is.

The game, however, doesn't know if you're skill or not, making the 1% chance you have COMPLETELY random, Truthfully: I have NO clue how U even got there.
My point is that winning Cap Points is random.

With this, you DO however need to add some factors:

-Skillfull play DOES give you an advantage, but if there is a 3th team that doesn't know how to play, you're fcuked anyways...
-Blue team advantage, as explained before...
-...

Brave, if what you're saying is true, then HOW do you explain the fact that teams can hold Cap Points 3 times in a row, and then loose to 2 Unranked R/D pugs?

Like I said, as a Blue team, U have a small advantage (actually a large one, assuming U don't get ganked, U shoudl always win as a blue team).

Anyways, the mathematical principles:

3 teams with an equal percentage of winning:

33,333 per team to win.

To win 2 matches in a row:

1/3 x 1/3 => 1/9 = 11.11111%

To win 3 matches in a row:

1/9 x 1/3 => 1/27 = 3.7%

That's still pretty reasonable. But as I said, skillful play AND being the blue team without getting ganked can easily give you 4-5 holding matches...

My point merely is that more often than not, the winning of cap points is NOT the most skilled team, but it's rather the third team, that didn't gank or get ganked...

I explained the intire mathematical principles, without any personal add-ons, just the pure scientific "lay-out" of cap points.

And the way it (cap points) is now, is to simple promote passive play:

Do NOT engage, or get engaged at and you have the largest chance of winning...

I can't believe I'm actually explaining to someone Cap Points isn't a good system. I mean, It really doesn't take a genius to figure out that when 2 teams are fighting in a 3 team-fight, the third team reaps the benefit.
(This is also how MANY wars are won, in a multiple sides war, the army that "sits on the side" whilst other armies are fighting can, after the initial fight is over, run on the battlefield, and slay the weakened "victorious" army...

Teh Jace · Jun 26, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Cap pts and relic run have to go.
The whole idea behind cap pts is about holding the center. There is no option of split (unless it's gank). The whole idea of defending a microsize altar against waves of aoe is plainly retarded.

supa tim · Jun 26, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Cap pts and relic run have to go.
The whole idea behind cap pts is about holding the center. There is no option of split (unless it's gank). The whole idea of defending a microsize altar against waves of aoe is plainly retarded.

Thats why they should change the range of capping thesame as in AB: when ur radar bubble goes over a central point on the altar, youre capping.

But that would mean there would be no way u can never cap the altar unless u kill stuff/make the other team split.

Takida · Jun 26, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I dont think that would change much tim, its the map design, it need more neutral points, or it will allways be like this.

It is over a year till gw2 is coming, and nothing seems to be done its sad, really sad.

remake the capture point map, fix koth, dunno what to do about relic run, cant see how it can work in halls with what changes :/

good skill balances

cant see how this is to much to ask for really

taki

skakid9090 · Jun 26, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

................

A third team not knowing h2play will always kill results and make it luck, using that point as a basis for why 1 of the 3 objectives is bad is a logical fallacy.

Takida · Jun 26, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by skakid9090

A third team not knowing h2play will always kill results and make it luck, using that point as a basis for why 1 of the 3 objectives is bad is a logical fallacy.

Maybe you should read his whole post

Apok Omen · Jun 26, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Dervish:

Wounding Strike: Revert to original form. It saw alot of play from the beginning, now it's just free covered deep wound every 4 seconds

Reaper's Sweep: Shorten Recharge to 6 seconds, lower added dmg to +5...25 random buff, makes it more spammable without making it OP

Elementalist:

Searing Flames: Change to: 10e, 1sec, 5r, Hex Spell: After 1 second, this hex ends. End Effect: 5...82 fire dmg and 1...5 second burning to foe and foes adjacent. I think this will make it more of a pressure skill rather than a spike skill, but that's just me

Monk:

Strength of Honor: Change to physical melee damage. Buff dmg to +1...15 +28 dmg a swing is a bit much to prot/heal, make them choose

Defender's Zeal: Change to: 5e, 1sec, 5r: Hex Spell: For 1...9secs, the next time target foe blocks, they lose 1...2 energy and Defender's Zeal ends. In it's current form, people don't want melee to hit if they are running a hex build. Many Anti-melee hexes shadows this.

Withdraw Hexes: Change function to: 5e, 1sec, 12r: Remove one Hex from target ally. If target ally is under the effects of an elite hex spell, remove 1...2 more hexes. In its current form, even Hex Eater Signet looks good. At least now, it will be more versatile.

Dwayna's Kiss: Remove ''target other ally'' clause. Today's monks are running out of self heals.

Aura of Stability: Revert back to previous duration Knockdowns are baed and more popular

NecroMancer:

Depravity: Change to: 10e, 1sec, 20 recharge: Hex Spell: For 5...10 seconds, Whenever foe casts a spell, they and 1 additional foe lose 1...5 energy. A recycling energy lose hex that is better than E-surge needs to have a more attentive look at, instead of firing and forgetting

Weaken Knees: Change to 10e, 1sec, 8 recharge: Hex Spell: For 5...17seconds, the next time foe attacks, they are knocked down, and Weaken Knees ends. Ehh, random change time

supa tim · Jun 27, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Dervish:

Wounding Strike: Revert to original form. It saw alot of play from the beginning, now it's just free covered deep wound every 4 seconds

Reaper's Sweep: Shorten Recharge to 6 seconds, lower added dmg to +5...25 random buff, makes it more spammable without making it OP

Elementalist:

Searing Flames: Change to: 10e, 1sec, 5r, Hex Spell: After 1 second, this hex ends. End Effect: 5...82 fire dmg and 1...5 second burning to foe and foes adjacent. I think this will make it more of a pressure skill rather than a spike skill, but that's just me

Monk:

Strength of Honor: Change to physical melee damage. Buff dmg to +1...15 +28 dmg a swing is a bit much to prot/heal, make them choose

Defender's Zeal: Change to: 5e, 1sec, 5r: Hex Spell: For 1...9secs, the next time target foe blocks, they lose 1...2 energy and Defender's Zeal ends. In it's current form, people don't want melee to hit if they are running a hex build. Many Anti-melee hexes shadows this.

Withdraw Hexes: Change function to: 5e, 1sec, 12r: Remove one Hex from target ally. If target ally is under the effects of an elite hex spell, remove 1...2 more hexes. In its current form, even Hex Eater Signet looks good. At least now, it will be more versatile.

Dwayna's Kiss: Remove ''target other ally'' clause. Today's monks are running out of self heals.

Aura of Stability: Revert back to previous duration Knockdowns are baed and more popular

NecroMancer:

Depravity: Change to: 10e, 1sec, 20 recharge: Hex Spell: For 5...10 seconds, Whenever foe casts a spell, they and 1 additional foe lose 1...5 energy. A recycling energy lose hex that is better than E-surge needs to have a more attentive look at, instead of firing and forgetting

Weaken Knees: Change to 10e, 1sec, 8 recharge: Hex Spell: For 5...17seconds, the next time foe attacks, they are knocked down, and Weaken Knees ends. Ehh, random change time

WS: Agree

RS: Agree, theres only 2 elite scythe attacks and 1 isnt even that much pressure.

SF: Agree, tho it would look alot like incendairy bonds: Increase damage to max 114 or something.

Strenght of Honor: Theres nothing wrong with the skill itself, its just that the Signet mesmer doesnt need his energy so he takes a random upkeep enchantment.

Defenders Zeal: Thats really lame. Just loosing 2 energy? and Who the hell is gonna run Smiting prayers? And theres still loads of hexbuild that dont have "miss hexes".

W-Hex: what? Look at Expell Hexes: 5e 1c 7r. Removes 2 hexes (so twice as good as remove hex). Monks should have some sort of elite like that as well.
I would lower the recharge to 7...4 seconds.

Dwaynas: Youre making monks even better now. Since HB and WoH buff 3 monk backline has been replaced by 2 monk backline. Monk skills already used dont need Buffs.

Aura of Stab: revert back to b4 previous update, Now its just not long enough. Buff recharge of brace yourself to 8-9 seconds.

Depravity: Agree, Shorter recharge than duration on this skill is BAAAAD.

Weaken knees: Its conditional so 5e

grz,

Timmeh