Curse

Mauri · Jun 24, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

why is S-way so discredited, it works, it wins games and its fun to play. I fail to understand why people dislike S-way?

Frank Dudenstein · Jun 24, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauri

why is S-way so discredited, it works, it wins games and its fun to play. I fail to understand why people dislike S-way?

People like GuildWars PvP because it is (supposed to be) based on skill. Thus, builds that are ridiculously easy to play and also ridiculously powerful are not good for the game. Poor players playing an easy build should not be beating good players playing a balanced build. If this is happeneng, it is very bad for the game in the long run ... in a competitive sense .. you see the skillful competitive people leave when a game degenerates to this point.

BTW ... you may find sway fun to play because it wins a little and gets you fame. However good players do not find pressing 123123123 1000 times in a row fun, regardless of the reward. They would rather let their cat run the r/d and play some other game that requires strategy and decisionmaking.

Oh, and regarding the 50 posts that will follow this, complaining that sway is not overpowered but they are sick of facing it ... about 10% of these people are telling the truth, and the other 90% lose to sway much more than they will admit.

supa tim · Jun 24, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

People like GuildWars PvP because it is (supposed to be) based on skill. Thus, builds that are ridiculously easy to play and also ridiculously powerful are not good for the game. Poor players playing an easy build should not be beating good players playing a balanced build. If this is happeneng, it is very bad for the game in the long run ... in a competitive sense .. you see the skillful competitive people leave when a game degenerates to this point.

BTW ... you may find sway fun to play because it wins a little and gets you fame. However good players do not find pressing 123123123 1000 times in a row fun, regardless of the reward. They would rather let their cat run the r/d and play some other game that requires strategy and decisionmaking.

Oh, and regarding the 50 posts that will follow this, complaining that sway is not overpowered but they are sick of facing it ... about 10% of these people are telling the truth, and the other 90% lose to sway much more than they will admit.

everything said, close topic.

Horace The Great · Jun 24, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauri

why is S-way so discredited, it works, it wins games and its fun to play. I fail to understand why people dislike S-way?

Cause people only use the build to farm fame and the build doesn't have allot of utility.

Bobulation · Jun 24, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

People (myself included) hate sway because its a gimmick build. PvP is supposed to be about skill and learning how to play a class, and gimmick builds don't do either. Run Balanced if you want to improve, run Sway if you want to...... not improve.

Tyla · Jun 24, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Because it's an overflow build that is a tad imbalanced. The reason I say it's imbalanced is because it allows terribad players to beat mediocre players when the mediocre players try their best yet the crap players just roll their head against a keyboard. Seriously, when that happens there is obviously something wrong.

It's also the attitude of those who play it. It's just "FAME FAME FAME".

Sierraa · Jun 24, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I tend to tell people that sway and other gimick builds is a lot like farming. You do the same thing over and over and over and yes you get your fame, but you do something really repetitive. Some people enjoy that. I would much rather play balanced or randomway. :P

I'll agree that sway can be fun sometimes though. I like playing R/D in aspenwood~

Bloodseeker · Jun 24, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

sway isn't fun, not to play against and not to play yourself. maybe if you're new to PvP you like it, but it's just crap.

Killed u man · Jun 24, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Like, everything has been said already, but really:

STOP QQ'ING ABOUT SWAY BEING OVERPOWERED:

Original ritspike is OP
Rspike is OP
Hexway is OP

Sway is VERY easy beatable, it's just VERY boring...

As for the guy with utility:

They have snares on 5 bars, hardcore interrupts x2 (Echo warmongers), Nice defense, average to good holding (traps on altar = ghostly stay alive, dustrap IS in fact overpowered, prlly the only skill in the build which I would destroy...

They can easily split 3 characters off that can pretty much solo anything 1 on 1 (R/D), have 2 characters which can "bomb" an capture point (trappers) and have 2 characters who pretty much can't die 1v1 (Or even 1v +-3 -n/rt's).
They have ALOT of utility, and ALOT of different ways to play. Sway is a rather versatile build, every single bar individually is VERY one dimensional tough...

Ciric · Jun 24, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Like, everything has been said already, but really:

STOP QQ'ING ABOUT SWAY BEING OVERPOWERED:

Original ritspike is OP
Rspike is OP
Hexway is OP

Sway is VERY easy beatable, it's just VERY boring...

As for the guy with utility:

They have snares on 5 bars, hardcore interrupts x2 (Echo warmongers), Nice defense, average to good holding (traps on altar = ghostly stay alive, dustrap IS in fact overpowered, prlly the only skill in the build which I would destroy...

They can easily split 3 characters off that can pretty much solo anything 1 on 1 (R/D), have 2 characters which can "bomb" an capture point (trappers) and have 2 characters who pretty much can't die 1v1 (Or even 1v +-3 -n/rt's).
They have ALOT of utility, and ALOT of different ways to play. Sway is a rather versatile build, every single bar individually is VERY one dimensional tough...

Almost tempted to agree with you here. The thing is with HA's setup being as it is now it will always favor certain styles of play. Sway, hexway, and big spikes are the most favored due to the 8v8 style of play, hell even most cap point maps are 90% covered in 1 radar meaning you can split party heals/buffs (OoV necros are the best example) and still gain benefits from them.

The biggest problem does not lie in the power of the build, but in the power of its counters. Yes r-spike is powerful, but if you have a bad prot monk, then u can run aegis + da + blindbot if you want. Yes RT spike is powerful (even the new one), but disruption, and simply forcing them to heal can counter it effectively. The problem with sway, iway, old r-spike, bloodspike, old r-spike, (i could go on forever), was that the counters in place were very weak, and because of this it limited builds being ran in HA. You had IWAY, or Anti iway. Of coarse good teams can always beat a good sway or r-spike, but its not the upper level of play that we are concerned with (A better r-spike, will beat a worse balance or vice versa, the same can be said for almost every build, except sway simply because sway requires little skill to run and because of that, the actual power of the build to be used skillfuly is hampered.)

So what is the problem with sway? Sway actually allows low rank, unskilled players, to play decent. The build also, mainly due to its popularity, restricts other balanced builds. Whens the last time you saw a bonder, the SoH/ife Bond from like 6 months ago comes to mind (NR isnt the problem btw, its the rend touches), whens the last time you saw a team run without a RC, or a weapon of warding (though that semi counters r-spike too). Sway needs to be nerfed not because good teams can't beat is (because we can) but because it does not favor/teach player skill, and it limits the meta more then any other build in HA.

On the topic of how the "fix" sway:

Escape needs to end on mele attacks, not because the block is OP 8v8, but on cap point maps, they have 3 totally splittable, soloing machines.

Rend Touch needs to be made a touch spell, also with that expertise needs to be changed so that only touch SKILLs are effected by it, not touch spell. (This also leads into a whole balance of touches for rangers for gvg too)

Other then those two nerfs i see nothing else that is bad about sway and that you can fix without hurting other builds. Its defence is underpowered, the NR/Tranq go down very easy, the traps are annoying, however, you can deal with them (borat thinks dust is OP, its good but in that situation you can pump caster damage into their ghost (they have no prots) and just push N/Rts, maybe have a caster set it off b4 a ghost spike), the rt is taken care of by a p-block, or a PD on 1-2 weapon skills.

Mauri · Jun 25, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

BTW ... you may find sway fun to play because it wins a little and gets you fame. However good players do not find pressing 123123123 1000 times in a row fun, regardless of the reward. They would rather let their cat run the r/d and play some other game that requires strategy and decisionmaking.

A few things to say about your post, S-way is an 8 man team, R/D is not used 8 times. R/D is actually used by skiled player

http://guildwars.com/competitive/tou...-4.php?lang=en

R/D20 This Game Is A Joke (2)

who is playing for

Noob Gladiators [Glad]

who just so happen to be rank 13.

However that you to all the people who actaully offered awnsers to my question. Cheers Guys

Riotgear · Jun 25, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

People who can beat S-way hate it because it's boring.
People who can't beat S-way hate it because they're losing to terrible players courtesy of a build that makes them more effective than they deserve to be.

UltimaSlash · Jun 25, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace The Great

Cause people only use the build to farm fame and the build doesn't have allot of utility.

Disagree with the utility part

N/Rts will gain plenty of energy from soul reaping on altar and capture points maps in halls to keep the ghostly and each other alive

R/P usually has SoC and make haste - for relic runs and capturing the altar

R/E has spike trap, cripple, grasping, and foes for snaring on relic run maps

R/Ds have escape, which make them close to invincible when running relics

Warmongers on the rit can interupt the ghostly hero in courtyard or in halls.

I'll agree that this build can't split very well because it is so dependent on spirits, but neither can hexways or 321 spike teams.

It's also easily counterable, because of the lack of prot in the build, hex removal only on the rit, and that sway is screwed if players are designated to interupted trappers and destroy spirits.

However, I think this build has plenty of ultility and has the tools for all of the objectives in halls

As far as farming fame, I think you'll find that about 95% of the groups in HA right now, running all sorts of builds, are just trying to farm fame.

I can see why people hated sway 2 months ago, cuz it made up 90% of the builds out there and unranked/low ranked groups could roll r9+ balanced groups. But now? The meta has changed, and most r9 players know how to beat a sway. A more overpowered and common build right now would probably be SF-way or tri-necro hexway. Sway has also decreased in popularity; I haven't seen sway at all last night, and the nerfs to splinter and arage hurt the build quite a bit. So, the arguments that people "see this build too often" or that it's "overpowered" aren't really valid anymore. Which leaves one last reason why people hate this build: It takes "no skill" - well, 90% of the builds out there right now (321 spike, hex everything, spam wounding strike, etc..) don't require much skill either. With this said, I'm still questioning why people still think SWAy needs a nerf and why everyone still hates it.

Channeling_Monk · Jun 25, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauri

A few things to say about your post, S-way is an 8 man team, R/D is not used 8 times. R/D is actually used by skiled player

http://guildwars.com/competitive/tou...-4.php?lang=en

R/D20 This Game Is A Joke (2)

who is playing for

Noob Gladiators [Glad]

who just so happen to be rank 13.

You're assuming high ranked guilds are good and have good players in them. Your assumption falls apart somewhere between "GW is not a balanced game" and "Top guilds farmed their rating with gimmicks."

Sierraa · Jun 25, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

People who can beat S-way hate it because it's boring.
People who can't beat S-way hate it because they're losing to terrible players courtesy of a build that makes them more effective than they deserve to be.

I <3 sway because it's easy to beat and it's free fame for me.

Linzi The Elf · Jun 26, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

I <3 sway because it's easy to beat and it's free fame for me.

That is what i was going to say. it is boreing to play sway because it is playing the same match over and over again and it gets boreing fast. Sway is not overpowerd in a wole because it is very easy to beat but rending touch needs a hit but other then that there is no problems with it just look at it as free fameway

Apok Omen · Jun 26, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Buff sway, I hate calling the same tactics pre-game:

Wand Trappers, Nuke Spirits, Interrupt SoC, WoW monks, and kill shit...

supa tim · Jun 26, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linzi The Elf

That is what i was going to say. it is boreing to play sway because it is playing the same match over and over again and it gets boreing fast. Sway is not overpowerd in a wole because it is very easy to beat but rending touch needs a hit but other then that there is no problems with it just look at it as free fameway

Can you also think about others (less experienced HA players) besides urself?

LifesRestorer · Jun 26, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

sway is a bad build that only beats other bad players. while it is easily beatable among any decent team, it stops inexperienced aspiring new teams from wanting to compete with a decent balace: whats the point of playing with skill when every time you go in you get rolled by some brainless button mashing build that you could set up yourself in half the time?

The Savage I · Jun 26, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

i think people should run what they want because they bought the game for fun, if some people wanted to take this joke game serious im sure they wouldn't play a build you call lame