Curse

moriz · Jul 07, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

Then the Signet Mesmer would just not run an elite.

if they don't run an elite, then sig of humility won't disable.

DreamWind · Jul 07, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

The solution to the problem is the make other skills suck less, and make the overpowered slightly less retarded. Push the effectiveness of non-elite trash skills up to the point to where if a dumb skill like Hum Sig disables one elite skill, the team doesn't sink like a the Titanic running into an iceberg.

I think the solution is to remove all the crap from the game (everything that came after Nightfall surely and Factions possibly). That way you can balance the remaining skills. Attempting to balance all the skills today would be harder than simply removing them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

if they don't run an elite, then sig of humility won't disable.

So they run a garbage elite that they don't care much about. Sig of humility is that strong. But yea I agree with what has been said earlier...its a symptom of a larger balance problem.

GourangaPizza · Jul 07, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

^ ... the way how builds nowadays revolve around an elite make SoH powerful. Otherwise it should be a tickle on a back.

the_deSKtructor · Jul 07, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So they run a garbage elite that they don't care much about. Sig of humility is that strong. But yea I agree with what has been said earlier...its a symptom of a larger balance problem.

What's the point of running a garbage elite. You will just take the best one and decide to use either SoH or the Elite (if, for example, SoH get's dshotted and so on).

Blunt Feather · Jul 07, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

if WS did change than wouldn't most dervishs be out of the pvp picture since most dervish's use that elite i name my derv after this elite: Guess My Elite.
an update that i would like is if you have to to use more faction to unlock high-end pvp skills :WoH, RC, WS etc..

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 07, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blunt Feather

an update that i would like is if you have to to use more faction to unlock high-end pvp skills :WoH, RC, WS etc..

Lmao, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Also the problem isn't Wounding Strike for the 9001st time, it's SoH+Conjure stacking.

deya · Jul 07, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Lmao, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Also the problem isn't Wounding Strike for the 9001st time, it's SoH+Conjure stacking.

I'd say it's half of the problem. It wouldn't be if your RC wasn't recharging constantly. Signet Mesmers and Dervishes just plays too well together.

Riotgear · Jul 07, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Lmao, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Also the problem isn't Wounding Strike for the 9001st time, it's SoH+Conjure stacking.

The dervishes wouldn't really be possible without the signet mesmers buffing them and keeping RC shut down. You couldn't really run Strength of Honor or especially Holy Wrath on much else. At the same time, it would be pretty mediocre without that utility. The entire build is really based on buffing up the dervishes and shutting down the very specific counters to them, which points to the dervishes being the real problem.

I really don't think taking away Conjure+SoH stacking by itself would fix it, Wounding Strike needs a minor tap to reduce the furious spam factor, Signet of Mystic Speed needs to stop giving a permanent speed boost with no drawback, and MoI needs to stop lowering recharges on interrupted signets.

eximiis · Jul 07, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I'd stay the should put WS to 5 secs. recharge, this way you can still spam it but a little bit less.

As for SigHum, it can't be balanced if you can keep it up 100%. Recharge at 25 sec. would probably be balance.

Conjure and SoH are not THE problem. Rc Lock is the problem.

Zuranthium · Jul 07, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

You can't keep an Elite down 100% anymore. Mantra nerf changed that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Also the problem isn't Wounding Strike for the 9001st time, it's SoH+Conjure stacking.

Actually, I've come to believe SoH by itself is overpowered. That single skill generates too much extra damage. It should be nerfed to 1 + (Attribute/2) extra damage.

~Z

Riotgear · Jul 07, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

As for SigHum, it can't be balanced if you can keep it up 100%. Recharge at 25 sec. would probably be balance.

You can already get some breathers to cast RC on simple account of the fact that SigHum is an interrupt magnet.

around · Jul 07, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I think a skill is overpowered once people start saying 'o but itz interruptible'.

Sure it is, and so was Signet of Ghostly Might, hexes etc etc.

Granted, this has a HUGE ASS cast time, but being a signet and all that, it's pretty easy to fake out any interrupts on the ranger, plus the ranger could be split off/dead/interrupting something else/recharging/unable to interrupt due to some other cause.

DarkNecrid · Jul 08, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

i think a skill is overpowered when it restricts choice.

Humsig is one of those skills that seem like they are either blatantly broken or completely useless depending on the meta. should probably be reworked.

DreamWind · Jul 08, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

I think a skill is overpowered once people start saying 'o but itz interruptible'.

Hahahaha yea. That and "just bring a counter to it you noob" are two very strong indications of a broken skill.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 08, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The dervishes wouldn't really be possible without the signet mesmers buffing them and keeping RC shut down.

Are you kidding me? Plenty of people run WS Dervishes without even having a signet mesmer, it's a strong template on it's own and hum sig after the MoI nerf really isn't that scary anymore, it's still pretty decent when it gets off, but it's not like it's difficult to interrupt..

Quote:

You couldn't really run Strength of Honor or especially Holy Wrath on much else. At the same time, it would be pretty mediocre without that utility.

Strength of Honor Mo/X or Rt/Mo's are perfectly viable, also the Dervishes are potent enough without SoH, and too strong with it.

Quote:

I really don't think taking away Conjure+SoH stacking by itself would fix it, Wounding Strike needs a minor tap to reduce the furious spam factor, Signet of Mystic Speed needs to stop giving a permanent speed boost with no drawback, and MoI needs to stop lowering recharges on interrupted signets.

Mystic speed definitely needs a nerf and I believe Izzy is looking at debugging MoI as well, I don't think WS should be nerfed along with this though, change the orders in which the conditions are applied if you want to change it at all, anything else will likely destroy the template.

pah01 · Jul 08, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Mystic speed definitely needs a nerf and I believe Izzy is looking at debugging MoI as well, I don't think WS should be nerfed along with this though, change the orders in which the conditions are applied if you want to change it at all, anything else will likely destroy the template.

Who gives a GOREDENGINE about the wounding strike template?

The character does little more than Lighning orb people on recharge with a deep wound attached to the skill. The other problem is that the dervish now has a perma speedboost and an IAS whose only weakness is that it can be removed which leaves us with something almost as bad as the original Rampage as one.

Sai Rith · Jul 08, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Nerf Wounding Strike.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 09, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Wounding strike is not a problem if you're not terrible. The problem is not even Sig Humility. Seriously guys Mitch has been saying it for a long time now and it isn't hard to understand. The damage stacking of Conjures and SoH is a problem and should be fixed. Sig Humility could get an extra 5 seconds on the recharge if you really wanted to tone it down, but shutting it down isn't a difficult task and it promotes a more nuanced play (cancel casting and fake outs).

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 09, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Who gives a GOREDENGINE about the wounding strike template?

The character does little more than Lighning orb people on recharge with a deep wound attached to the skill. The other problem is that the dervish now has a perma speedboost and an IAS whose only weakness is that it can be removed which leaves us with something almost as bad as the original Rampage as one.

There's actually a dervish template that can pressure, the template itsself really isn't that broken. Signet of Mystic Speed is clearly overpowered and will be adressed in the very near future, besides that conjure and soh stacking is the only problem with this.

I've been seeing some D/Me with hex breaker lately, in an attempt to counter Me/E water guys, and the damage they put out without conjure is very mediocre.

I really don't get why wounding strike is getting so much hate, the skill is about 100x healthier for the game than avatar of melandru/balthazar/etc.

Ok for those people who still think hum sig is a problem after the MoI nerf, I'll let you in on a little secret, signets can't get HCT, this means that at some point the mesmer is gonna have to spend the full ~2.2 seconds to cast the signet.

If you actually hold on to your interrupts till the cast is past 50% complete you'll find you have a lot more success interrupting it, or at the very least it will be down more often because it'll take more time to fake you out this way.

The only problem with it currently is a bug with MoI that makes it so the reduced recharge applies even to interrupted signets, unless they're interrupted with DShot, DChop, Complicate(?) and Icy Prism(?), and Izzy said he's working on fixing this.

Krill · Jul 09, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Ok for those people who still think hum sig is a problem after the MoI nerf, I'll let you in on a little secret, signets can't get HCT, this means that at some point the mesmer is gonna have to spend the full ~2.2 seconds to cast the signet.

If you actually hold on to your interrupts till the cast is past 50% complete you'll find you have a lot more success interrupting it, or at the very least it will be down more often because it'll take more time to fake you out this way.

I respect your opinions on most matters but I think you're still falling into the fallacy of if something is easily interruptible, then it's not broken. SoH can still keep WoH and RC locked down to being used once maybe twice every 20 seconds. One normal interrupt only buys you ~20 seconds too...d-shot helps a lot of course, but that assumes you're running a ranger, your ranger is at the stand all the time (not) and the ranger is watching the signet mes like a hawk and doesn't take the bait on fakes. But oh wait...why not run two signet memsers! Where's the balance again?