Curse

Div · Jul 02, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

On the subject of spear spikes, get 3 friends together with Paragons and see if you can beat the popular 3 Ranger R-spike damage. See if you can kill the Master of damage in 1 sec. Good luck.

I think whatever credibility you had just went down the drain. Master of damage. Good joke.

Are you seriously arguing that paragons are bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

Rangers are the last character you should be trying to fix right now.

NO! THEY ARE A DEGENERATE CLASS THAT CAN LIKE...SPLIT AND UHHH...SUCK AT VOD BUT THEY DO BIG SPLITS! NERF PLZ SPLITTING AND USING SKILL > BUTTONMASH IS TOO DEGENERATIVE FOR CURRENT PLAY!

GourangaPizza · Jul 02, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

Bow Rangers are the last character you should be trying to fix right now.

Fixed for truth. Escape Scythe rangers are the most retarded build ever that any living mammals can run it with ease. Either fix how Expertise should function or change Escape functionality to "... ends when you attack."

EDIT:
This thread should die. Its July now.

erk · Jul 02, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I think whatever credibility you had just went down the drain. Master of damage. Good joke.

Are you seriously arguing that paragons are bad?

I will reiterate for a third time, they are least played/unpopular damage class compared to Warriors, Rangers, Dervish, etc. you can assign your own labels good, bad, whatever, I am just making an observation. In HA I don't think they spike as well as the other classes.

As for your master of damage comment, where else do you test your spike timing?

BTW. I don't care about my credibility on forums, never have, probably never will.

Zabe · Jul 02, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I will reiterate for a third time, they are least played/unpopular damage class compared to Warriors, Rangers, Dervish, etc.

To quote the legendary: And heres where your train of thought left the station and crashed into a lake...

First of all. You never mention sins. Are you seriously trying to proof to even those RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing rank N/A scrubs with 850 rating that sins get more play than paragons? Are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing idiot scrub trying to tell us that in the day when WS isnt so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing obviously imbalanced pile of shit, paragons would be used anyday more than dervishes? AND HOW IN THE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HELL YOU CALL RANGER A DAMAGE CLASS COMPARING IT TO MELEE CHARACTERS AND TURRETS??? O, ok poison is LOTSA DOMMAGE!

shoogi · Jul 02, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

erk, the questions "is profession X viable as a damage dealer" and "can you design a HA spike build out of profession X" are totally different questions my friend, and answering yes to one question doesn't mean it's the same for the other.

Also, your entire argument is wrong because Paragons are not an offensive class, they are midline support.

Monk Gsb · Jul 02, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

what i want to see in the "big update" ( if it is this months or not i dont care, but in the final one b4 they all totaly go away and stop ballenceing gw1)

Hammer bash - 75% chance to fail with 4 strength or lower.

Escape - Ends when you attack or become hexed.

Wounding Strike - apply the dw after the bleeding. this attack deals a max of 45 dmg (i mean 45 dmg not +45 dmg)

rending touch - loose all enchantments, for every 2 enchantments removed target for looses 1. (this skills fails if you have 1 or less enchantments)

Make experties not effect non ranger prof skills.

Make fast casting only apply to mesmer signets.

sig of humility - the recharge of this skill can not be changed. (applies to d-shots and diversions too)

this is all realy :P

kvndoom · Jul 02, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

[Signet of Humility] Signet. Target foe's elite skill is disabled for 1...13 seconds. Signet of Humility is disabled for 1...13 seconds.

Problem solved. No fast recharge, no perma-lock on elites. Hell, drop the cast and recharge to whatever you want then.

la_cabra_de_vida · Jul 02, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Or change to target foe's elite skill and your elite skill are disabled for .... if people think the skill is still a problem.

Lordhelmos · Jul 03, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

erk, the questions "is profession X viable as a damage dealer" and "can you design a HA spike build out of profession X" are totally different questions my friend, and answering yes to one question doesn't mean it's the same for the other.

Also, your entire argument is wrong because Paragons are not an offensive class, they are midline support armed with more platemail than an abrams M-1 tank while also toting railguns that fire 3 foot rods of electrified steel to pierce their target.

just a small accuracy fix there.

On the humility signet issue, I think it's fine in its current state. I think that RC is just too necessary and that locking it really swings games. Condi-pressure is pretty nasty right now.

What they should do to "balance" the metagame is buff more hex and condition hating skills in order to give the backline more skillbar compression.

A key indication of imbalance in the meta is when whole teams lose games because on key skill (like RC) gets diversioned or interrupted.

One major problem that is being seen in the metagame right now is the fact that entire teams are depending on a select amount of elite skills in order to give and take pressure during the game.

These include Wounding Strike, RC, WoH, Signet of Judgement, Cripshot, etc.

Some elite skills are just so good they are absolutely necessary for team survival. The game shouldn't automatically be over because of one good dshot or diversion. Elite skills should be assisting the player's bar rather than controlling it.

When you look at the state of the game during boonprot bar, the elite skill of boonprot didn't power the entire build, rather it was just an energy dump for a bar filled with very solid and effective skills that oversynergized with each other.

However, in this meta, monk bars, and those of other classes are completely built around one skill.

Having one skill build around 7 others, rather than having 7 others being built around 1 always results in better dynamics and synergy in play.

~

To make the metagame better, Anet should really concentrate on making more skills like Blessed Light more effective and multi-functional. Right now in the meta, the entire condition game is usually governed by a singular skill, such as draw, RC, or foul feast. Once that skill gets locked down, the team is pretty much screwed.

Having more multifunctional skills in the game that can double as hex/condition removal + hard heals, or removal + support functions, etc. Would allow more people to spread their defenses against specific play styles along a wider range of characters, rather than just having one guy carry the burden of the condition game and seeing a team wipe when that guy gets locked or pounded.

Killed u man · Jul 03, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Might as well throw it in here:

Nerf Rspike.

Fix the Glass Arrows + Favorable + Brutal + Paragon buffs etc build.

QQ it's HA who cares...

Just throwing in out here, 30-40% of the teams in HoH are Rspikes, About 10% Sfspikes and then a 50 % rest...

Spike is redicilous, (experise makes rangers strooong) very fast and continuous. They can keep on going for hours straight.

QQ

Ben-A-BoO · Jul 03, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Just throwing in out here, 30-40% of the teams in HoH are Rspikes, About 10% Sfspikes and then a 50 % rest...

87% percent of all statistics are made up.
Don't create random numbers to back up your arguments, Borat.
The abundance of a build says something about the popularity not necessarily about the balance. Just include a link to one of your other threads, so you don't have to repeat yourself over and over.

kthx

shoogi · Jul 03, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

just a small accuracy fix there.

Paragons being a poorly designed class is nothing new, I mean that from what I understand Paragons weren't meant to fill a damage dealer role, they were supposed to buff the team along with some offensive support. Again, how poorly they were designed and fit into balance, that's a different subject.

If we went into that, then Paragon AL should be lowered to 70 (a change that was proposed in those forums the second NF came out).

As to the rest of your post, I agree that BL monks should be buffed, but it would take a monstrous buff to BL to bring DF monks into play. The problem with Divine Favor is that very few skills are actually good. The party heals aren't good enough, sig of devotion is asking for interrupt. The only good ones are Deny Hexes (which won't be as useful if you have hex denial from BL) and CoP (which is a good self defense, but still just a self defense). A look at the elites shows that they all epicly suck except BL (and HB which isn't relevant to the discussion).

Therefore, favoring DF/prot monks above Heal/prot monks will require a big buff to the Divine Favor line, and not ONLY to BL. With near to no other useful skills in the attribute, convincing monks to run BL with just buffing BL would be buffing it to the 200 area, which would create another broken skill.

So, along with a buff to BL more DF skills should see buffs.
Signet of Devotion- reduce activation time to 1, increase recharge to 8.
Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight- increase healing a bit.
Blessed Light- one of the buffs suggested in above posts.
and/or-
All Divine Favor spells- now receive double effect from Divine Favor healing bonus.

Another option is of course nerfing WoH and Patient Spirit, but I dont think nerfs is the way to go while Dervishes are spamming a covered DW every 3 secs and doing 150 dmg with Chilling Victory. First of all, that problem should be fixed.

DarkNecrid · Jul 03, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Blessed Light doesn't need buffed, Word of Healing needs nerfed.

Krill · Jul 03, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

As to the rest of your post, I agree that BL monks should be buffed, but it would take a monstrous buff to BL to bring DF monks into play.

I think the idea would be to run a 14 / 13 prot bar using BL as your primary heal and utility skill. It would be nice to see BL bumped down to 5e with perhaps a small reduction in healing because hex removal options for solo monks are really quite awful for the smaller formats. Spotless Mind can be decent but the two primary hex classes are also the two primary enchant removal class...durrrr. Simultaneously SA should be kicked into the gutter once and for all.

DarkNecrid · Jul 03, 2008, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

I think the idea would be to run a 14 / 13 prot bar using BL as your primary heal and utility skill. It would be nice to see BL bumped down to 5e with perhaps a small reduction in healing because hex removal options for solo monks are really quite awful for the smaller formats. Spotless Mind can be decent but the two primary hex classes are also the two primary enchant removal class...durrrr. Simultaneously SA should be kicked into the gutter once and for all.

Blessed Light shouldn't be buffed, Word of Healing should be nerfed.

Don't tip toe around the issue. The issue is that WoH heals for much much more than it should, and thus by power creep makes Blessed Light look unfavorable in turn. Blessed Light is perfectly fine. Word of Healing is just way too good.

around · Jul 03, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

You more or less need the monstrous heal from WoH not to instagib from the stuff people currently run though.

Power creep is not about one skill being ridiculously out of line (although WoH is a bit too strong), it's about the whole power level creeping. If you want to bring BL back via nerfs, you'll have to nerf everything until it was at the power level it was when people used BL.

Lordhelmos · Jul 03, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

I definitely agree on the divine favor buff. To monks the one thing that makes speccing into divine favor absolutely necessary is healing gained from the inherit bonus. Divine favor buffing would be a great way to compress more utility skills into a monk bar.

Some examples would be:

Aura of Faith: Change functionality to: Elite Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, target ally gains 24...45% more Health when healed and cannot be affected by more than 1 hex at a time.

Divine Spirit: Reduce Cost to 5, reduce recharge to 45 seconds.

Signet of Devotion: Reduce cast time to 1, as previously mentioned in the post above.

Boon Signet: Change functionality to: Elite Signet. Heal target ally for 5...29 Health. For each enchantment or hex on that ally, you gain 2 Energy (maximum 2...7 Energy)

Release Enchantments: Increase healing to 10-58 per enchantment.

Watchful Healing: Now removes 1 condition when initially applied.

Watchful Spirit: Reduce cost to 10.

DarkNecrid · Jul 03, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

You more or less need the monstrous heal from WoH not to instagib from the stuff people currently run though.

Power creep is not about one skill being ridiculously out of line (although WoH is a bit too strong), it's about the whole power level creeping. If you want to bring BL back via nerfs, you'll have to nerf everything until it was at the power level it was when people used BL.

Oh yes, I agree, but I thought that sort of went along with the whole package. You'd have to be pretty dumb to nerf WoH right now, but you'd have to be even dumber to buff BL instead of fixing the actual problem.

Krill · Jul 03, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Oh yes, I agree, but I thought that sort of went along with the whole package. You'd have to be pretty dumb to nerf WoH right now, but you'd have to be even dumber to buff BL instead of fixing the actual problem.

My opinion on BL wasn't related to the problem of instagib scythes, in fact it would be a really crappy solution if wounding strike isn't changed because it would only remove bleeding with the deep wound still reducing the heal. It was more a "what if" since a bunch of random skills were changed in the last update. But I agree it would be incredibly stupid if the July update brings us more random changes without addressing the bigger issues that have been discussed on end for months.

C2K · Jul 03, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Blessed Light shouldn't be buffed, Word of Healing should be nerfed.

Don't tip toe around the issue. The issue is that WoH heals for much much more than it should, and thus by power creep makes Blessed Light look unfavorable in turn. Blessed Light is perfectly fine. Word of Healing is just way too good.

You can't nerf WoH without nerfing a sizeable portion of the environment. Besides, Signet of Humility locks it down.