Curse

DarkNecrid · Jun 11, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Change signet of humility into a spell just called humility. No more mantra synergy and no more cancel casting abuse.

Ya but now you have [Arcane Echo].

Problem. · Jun 11, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

[Wail of Doom]

I just thought of an interesting skill change to make Wail of Doom reward more skillful players.

5 Energy. 1/4 Cast. 12 Recharge.
Elite Skill. If target foe was using a skill, for 0...3...4 seconds, all of target foe's attributes are set to 0. If target foe was not using a skill, for 0...3...4 seconds, all of targets foe's attributes are set to 0, and this skill recharges for an additional 8 seconds.

Got some of the inspiration from [Blackout]Blackout. Prevents players from using this skill in combination with Arcane Echo to make casters useless for 80% of the time (esp. Monks). Rewards skillful play. Might be an interesting idea. The only thing is, that it is now unremovable.

darkdreamr · Jun 11, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Nope pretty sure there's a ton of issues besides those. Plus your #3 is completely dumb.

LEZ MAKE IT MORE BUIL DWARS KEKEKE

lols. There are a ton of issues besides those, I'm just talking about sig. messes and dervs. But I have to disagree about buffing certain skills being dumb. Not that there's anything to disagree with since you don't say why.

Obviously you don't want to go back and forth too much, but skills like Ignorance and Complicate have never been changed since their release, because they've never seen use until now.

I suppose you think it's better to nerf the overpowered skills, but sometimes you can achieve the same effect by buffing its counters without causing ramifications to every other aspect of balance.

Just an idea. And the reply about RC is well taken. But that's a deeper problem when one elite is absolutely necessary because no combination of nonelites can do the same job.

DarkNecrid · Jun 11, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

except you're bad tho dude. :/

buffing hard counters is about as smart of a suggestion as buffing paragons

EDIT:
To reiterate, the game becomes even more build wars, signets will fall out of favor, causing anti-signet to fall out of favor, causing signets to come back into favor, causing anti signet to become in favor, causing signets to fall out of favor....get it?

Lordhelmos · Jun 11, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Ya but now you have [Arcane Echo].

So your going to arcane echo a 10 cost spell with a 3 second cast time. It would be just like arcane echoing diversion. Plus arcane echo is an easy strip.

15+10+10 cost, and even with fast casting thats like 5-6 seconds of casting.... doesn't sound OP at all. Not to mention now Humility is prone to being hit by all sorts of anticast-based counters like pdrain, mistrust, backfire, guilt, powerspike, etc.

Sounds balanced to me. The sole reason that teams in GvG are broken is because of the dual signet mesmer midline with 2 humsigs recharging in 10 seconds (and cancel casting for free). Unless you have jesus playing magebane for you, your pretty much boned.

You need to hit that first to fix the meta, and changing humsig to a spell will solve the problem without completely destroying the signet mesmer.

Alex the Great · Jun 11, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

make SoH cause you to deal light damage or holy damage (remember skills that make you deal holy damage dont make you armour ignoring)

make wounding strike 6 sec recharge

nerf mantra of signets to cause you to lose 1 energy every time you cast a signet

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 11, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

make SoH cause you to deal light damage or holy damage (remember skills that make you deal holy damage dont make you armour ignoring)

make wounding strike 6 sec recharge

nerf mantra of signets to cause you to lose 1 energy every time you cast a signet

Eh we've been over this changing the dmg to deal light/holy is just a buff in it's self, sure you may not be able to conjure also, but again nothing is +armor vs those types.

Wounding Strike, you want to cause double condi's on a 4 pipe character? Fine easily 8+recharge, you wanna just deal deep wound? I could live with 6.

Last one wouldn't do anything to make that mesmer less effective.

But really who cares reguardless what is said in this thread we all know it falls on deaf ears. The man in charge provides us with one of the following;
A)balance comes another week late, or maybe 2, or maybe 3, or maybe even 3+ months, after that's accomplished another one of the following occurs;
x)Skills changed are all or most a miss
xx)Totally kill other viable templates
xxx)The above+buff other things that have no business being buffed

And like magic a new bullshit meta occurs, rdy for the next onslaught of abusers and whiners.

As you can see I just like to whine!!

DarkNecrid · Jun 11, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

So your going to arcane echo a 10 cost spell with a 3 second cast time. It would be just like arcane echoing diversion. Plus arcane echo is an easy strip.

EDIT:
Wait, you didn't mention Humility would cost 10.

I didn't say it would be op, just that its not something else to worry about. Just make Humsig elite, imo?

humsig used to be elite in beta, iirc.

kosh · Jun 11, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

make SoH cause you to deal light damage or holy damage (remember skills that make you deal holy damage dont make you armour ignoring)

make wounding strike 6 sec recharge

nerf mantra of signets to cause you to lose 1 energy every time you cast a signet

taking into fact that u dont spam the sigs to much. losing 1 E for every use is not that of a big deal (unless u carry Holy Wrath, for Soh is no biggy. beside u can always slip in E mang skill since u already have enough in ins. imo duration nerf. fix the bug on recharge. also from RA/TA point of view, idk if 6 sec is enough. need to see after they revert the conditions.

zling · Jun 11, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Wounding Strike was perfectly fine when it had 3 sec recharge and causes dw while enchanted and bleeding while not.
the whole bleeding+dw is unneccessary, just bring it back to its old self...

the main problem is the Conjure+SoH.
the Signet of Humility thingy isnt as bad when you have Foul Feast, Draw Conditions, etc not just RC!
but for some reason people keep forgetting these skills

kosh · Jun 11, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Wounding Strike was perfectly fine when it had 3 sec recharge and causes dw while enchanted and bleeding while not.
the whole bleeding+dw is unneccessary, just bring it back to its old self...

the main problem is the Conjure+SoH.
the Signet of Humility thingy isnt as bad when you have Foul Feast, Draw Conditions, etc not just RC!
but for some reason people keep forgetting these skills

drew need to be cleaned with something? and foul feast in its current form is retarded. when you can gain more energy then spent on it something is wrong. but yes the dual condition stuck is plain stupid. revert it, change it, i dont care, its current form is just wrong. it overpower any other elite derv skill. which caused every derv to run the same single stupid bar. if evic axe need 8 adr for DW and cripslash need 2 skills and both 6 adr. ffs its are we giving DW for free now? yay izzy.

erk · Jun 11, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

There is plenty worse shutdown than just Sig Hum. Like a Powerblock Mes that locks out a whole Prot or Heal Monks bar, which of course usually includes half the teams hex removal, then spams Ignorance on the oppositions Signet Mes or anyone trying to res. with the occasional Blackout for important spikes. Saw it happen yesterday and it's retarded.

Cass · Jun 12, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

There is plenty worse shutdown than just Sig Hum. Like a Powerblock Mes that locks out a whole Prot or Heal Monks bar, which of course usually includes half the teams hex removal, then spams Ignorance on the oppositions Signet Mes or anyone trying to res. with the occasional Blackout for important spikes. Saw it happen yesterday and it's retarded.

Talk about ignorance...

There is nothing wrong with Powerblock or Blackout. These promote skillful play. These are in a totally different league from the likes of signet spam.

You really need to stop making junk posts if you cannot even appreciate the difference between a Sig of Judgment spammer and a Powerblocker.

DarkNecrid · Jun 12, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Power Block is alright, what's the problem with it??

zeal101 · Jun 12, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

IMBA is the dervish profession

1) the weapon (inherently striking multiple targets and INSANE dmg output)
2) the skills (uhm yeah enough said QQ)
3) the energy regen behind an imba profession (SPAM teh skillz plz)
4) the energy management (enchantments should be linked to Mysticism only)

Best description : The legal 'Ursan Blessing' in PvP

The only skill required is choosing the Dervish profession GG

Problem. · Jun 12, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

There is plenty worse shutdown than just Sig Hum. Like a Powerblock Mes that locks out a whole Prot or Heal Monks bar, which of course usually includes half the teams hex removal, then spams Ignorance on the oppositions Signet Mes or anyone trying to res. with the occasional Blackout for important spikes. Saw it happen yesterday and it's retarded.

erk, why is it that every time you say something, its completely stupid.

The reason a Power Block Mesmer can lock up an RC/SoD, is because of what those bar's have come to entail, not because Power Block is imbalanced or "completely worse shutdown". The current-gen RC/SoD bar has come to entail all prot skills because of the addition/necessity of Aura of Stability. Pre-Aura of Stability, the RC/SoD bar included Gift of Health, and getting Power Blocked wasn't so much of a detriment.

Also, if a Power Block Mesmer is able to completely shutdown a WoH bar, then that WoH bar is a failure of a bar. If a Power Block is Power Blocking a WoH, all that WoH should need is Dismiss Condition/Protective Spirit/Reversal of Fortune (if not running Patient Spirit) and the small prot of his choice for 14 seconds to be able to assist in keeping the team alive.

In addition, how would it "of course usually include half the teams hex removal" when 99% of backlines run two Holy Veils?

erk, you really need to understand more about the game before you speak.

Zuranthium · Jun 12, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Elites have become critical, on monk bars at least, getting an elite shut down for a maximum of 13 out of every 22 seconds (it'll likely be a lot less because of having to fake it, having to get into position or getting interrupted) however is really not a big deal.

Disagreed. A Monk losing their Elite for that period can most definitely result in kills and the 0-cost incurred to perform such an action isn't balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Mistral Edge doesn't win because they shut down a monk elite for a few seconds, they win because they kill NPCs.

And several of those NPC kills are from Sig Hum. Watch how they time it with Inept/Clumsiness spam, thus making it so the WoH Monk can not keep the NPCs up because the only skill on their bar that can recover the health efficiently enough is gone. Or, if the Sins are at stand, using Sig Hum on RC and dazing the WoH.

~Z

Hundbert · Jun 13, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

but the point is that when used correctly - on vital spells and on well-timed spikes there is not much you can do but watch and cry and hope a 30 heal woh will prevent a kill.

Actually wod makes woh heal for 5 not 30 :P
Why is there no love for ta?

DarkNecrid · Jun 13, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

lol dream update inc:
-wounding strike fix'd
-all hexes basically made more active (LOL NOT GONNA HAPPEN)
-WaM fix'd
-shadowsteps owned
-wod fix'd

i'm sure izzy will solve like 1 of those in the next 2 months.

Maybe.

Joseph Leito · Jun 14, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Ranger:

Antidote Signet: Activation time reduced to 3/4 Sec. (Make Rangers able to effectively have a secondary other than monk, the AS buff was nice though.)

Burning Arrow: Reduced to +8...20 Damage (Honestly, needs a slight nerf. Wouldn't take it off any bars, including mine, but makes it less of a Tank-killer.)

Poison Arrow: Increased +8...20 Damage. (Puts it extremely close to Burning Arrow.)

Incendiary Arrows: No longer Elite, Increased cost to 15 Energy, caster has -40 armor while using. (Makes it worth using, IMO. Also, IA with Poison Arrow would become good.)

Melandru's Shot: Decreased Energy cost to 5. Increased to +15...40 Damage. Energy gain now includes hexed foes. (Buffed an otherwise useless elite to make it a damage dealer.)

Barrage: Increased to +8...20 damage. (Splinter nerf, while DEFINITELY NEEDED, was a huge blow to the usefulness of Barrage. Needs some small buffs.)

Punishing Shot: Decreased Activation time to 1/4 Second. (Makes interruption with this more useful against 1 second act times.)

Quick Shot: Arrow now moves 3 times as fast and does +5...15 Damage. (Doesn't really make it useful, but it's a start.)

Also, against popularity:

Decreased Flatbow range to 1.5, increase refire rate of Longbow to 2.3 seconds.

Massive change there, but it has to be done. Longbows should have some use again.

So, there's my opinion. Oh yes, and this:

Assassin:
Shadow Form: No longer exists. Anyone who skill capped it will be refunded their 1k for signet of capture, and keeps experience.

I HATE THAT RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING SKILL, IT TAKES ALL CHALLENGE AWAY FOR ASSASSINS.