Curse

Riotgear · Jun 09, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Unless it's going to disable your elite too, I don't think that's a particularly good excuse. I don't exactly have a problem with smite linebacking, and I'm not exactly sure signet mesmers would be a particularly huge problem if it weren't for other aspects (specifically, synergy with Wounding Strike by buffing the Dervish and shutting down RC, the Dervish buffing fuelling SoMS, and B-surge getting trashed).

Yichi · Jun 09, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

maybe cause i personally don't want to see the sig mesmer to die. Its pretty neat idea and is something new (or reborn) in the current GvG / ha metas which have been pretty static for mesmer bars (e-surge + diversion + shame for GvG and PD/Power Block/Migrane mesmer in HA)

and its not kludging a fix on it. sig of humility disables one skill on their bar. It gets disabled on your bar.

So you would rather keep the gimick mesmers and get rid of the ones that require you to think...

Good Call There!!! /sarcasm off

Mr Fizzle · Jun 09, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

I like how they said Pvp balances would come quicker after pve and pvp were split.

Yeah.

DreamWind · Jun 09, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

The problem is shadow stepping being a bad mechanic that should be revisioned.
Now, let's make productive use of that pvp/pve seperation and hit shadow stepping without massive pve QQ. GW was a better game without it.

I'm with you. How about we remove assassins, rits, dervishes, and paragons from PvP? We won't get PvE QQ anymore! Whos with me????? (Probably nobody but it was a thought).

Cass · Jun 09, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

The Mesmers are the bigger problem. Dervsmite would be nothing without Signet of Humility. That skill overpowered by itself. A non-Elite ability that shuts down an Elite for 0 energy? Change the duration to 4 + (Attribute / 2). Then you wouldn't be able to perma-lock an Elite on a Sig Mes. I feel like that would be enough - if you can get RC off a couple times every 15 seconds and then have Dismiss be able to actually to pull the Deep Wound from Wounding Strike, it's a fair playing field.

As I argued before, the Signet of Humility is fine by itself. It is the synergy with monk signets via Mantra of Inscriptions that needs looking at. Mantra working only on mesmer signets, perhaps.
On its own, as it saw play in condition pressure builds, it is a good skill, but not overpowered. First, it's not elite, but it's going to cost you 2 skill slots as you will want Mantra pretty badly to make proper use of the signet. Second, it has a very long casting time already, with no FC bonus chance and is thus prone to d-shots (and you can't use Distortion with Mantra, so blocking it is not trivial).

Quote:

Although, Signet of Distraction probably needs to be looked at too. Being able to Power Lock WoH/RC for 0 energy and with only 6 in Dom isn't really fair.

Again, you're going for the wrong target here. This signet is only superpowered with numerous signets on your bar: When you can use non-mesmer ones with mantra. Without that condition, it's a very mediocre skill already. A bar with just mesmer signets plus Signet of Distraction would not result in a viable bar IMO.

Quote:

I like the meta right now a lot. Splitting is fun and there are a ton of different things that can be played.

If you like all the options in the meta so much, then why would you run a straight 8v8 dual derv/dual mes build on Burning Isle? ...

DarkNecrid · Jun 09, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Man, I am looking over the old skill updates from when the game launched and got a tear in my eye.

Why can't they make updates on the scale and generally speedyness like that anymore?

o rite gw 2. :/

Keithark · Jun 09, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Most ppl talking about nerfing dervs..I would like to see that as well but how to do it without making them 100% useless like the Paragon? I think nerf the gimick by not making soh and conjur stack, and/or buff MoD bigtime so it is cheap and easy to get rid of enchants. When my guild faces these derv teams we do ok as long as we keep thier aegis down and rend the dervs on recharge.

PS: /delete sins already ffs

DarkNecrid · Jun 09, 2008, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Most ppl talking about nerfing dervs..I would like to see that as well but how to do it without making them 100% useless like the Paragon?

lol wut?

12 chars

Keithark · Jun 09, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

lol wut?

12 chars

Didn't stutter, Paragons suck

26 chars...I win

DarkNecrid · Jun 09, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

god I know they totally get overshadowed by that other class that provides unstrippable party wide buffs, has infinite energy, does long range sword damage DPS, and has an infinite duration unstrippable IAS.

EDIT:
Basically if you don't get it I'm calling you dumb because even if they're overshadowed for other broken shit right now, calling them "useless" is about the equivalent of saying the Earth is a freaking triangle.

Keithark · Jun 09, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Go check obs let me know how many teams are running a paragon..and how many of those are winning. 0 and 0....if they were worth a crap they'd be used. Being overshadowed by all the other classes = definition of sucking, call me what you want...rather be dumb and right than smart and wrong

PS: \delete sins..they still add nothing but gimicks to the game

Problem. · Jun 09, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Most ppl talking about nerfing dervs..I would like to see that as well but how to do it without making them 100% useless like the Paragon? I think nerf the gimick by not making soh and conjur stack, and/or buff MoD bigtime so it is cheap and easy to get rid of enchants. When my guild faces these derv teams we do ok as long as we keep thier aegis down and rend the dervs on recharge.

PS: /delete sins already ffs

Wow. Dont be stupid. And your post is full of it.

The Paragon? Useless? You have got to be kidding me. Paragon's DPS and Spike at range like a Warrior, have irremovable party-wide buffs/support skills, and can put conditions on teams (bleeding, dazed, burning), and have multiple deep wounds. How exactly are they useless? Might I remind you that Paragon's were the first Nightfall professions to be abused, due to their ability to negate damage (Incoming, and They're on Fire comibined with Searing Flames). I really don't understand where you get off saying Paragons are useless.

Buff Mirror of Disenchantment? And then you say big time....

What type of drugs are you on? Buffing Mirror only makes things like Aegis/Tainted Flesh more useless than they already are, especially the former. Aegis not being up is currently the most detrimental thing to a team, because of the numerous amount of physicals ever since Nightfall was introduced. Warriors, Dervishes, and Assassins as well as the ranged physicals Paragons, and Rangers all rely on Aegis not being up to pressure. Pre-Nightfall, the common build was 2 Warriors, Ranger, Mesmer, Elementalist, and that was your stand team. Team's were able to get away with only a Ward Against Melee because they (Warriors) were really the only threats. Enter the Paragon (another reason why the Paragon isn't useless), and Ward Melee will not protect your team from it, and its ability to DPS/Spike.

Yichi · Jun 09, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

...rather be dumb and right than smart and wrong.

The irony is that in this case, you're just dumb and wrong.

DarkNecrid · Jun 09, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Damnit Yichi I was gonna say that. :S

I've seen people on obs running Paras so I don't know what your deal is man!

Skyros · Jun 09, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

So you would rather keep the gimick mesmers and get rid of the ones that require you to think...

Good Call There!!! /sarcasm off

I wasnt saying "hey lets get rid of every mesmer except the signet mesmer" Im saying lets keep a build, put it into balance (doesnt have to be using my suggestions just anything to put it in line), and lets see some diversity.

backing sig of hum disable your elite doesnt sound too bad. NOw that I think about it, a normal skill getting disabled for an elite skill doesnt sound that great.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 09, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Go check obs let me know how many teams are running a paragon..and how many of those are winning. 0 and 0....if they were worth a crap they'd be used.

Para's just aren't being used right now because they are weaker in the imba bunch that is floating around. You can't buff a paragon with SOH+conjure.

Still on the topic of these dervs, Sig Hum is a core problem when dervs are spamming deep wounds every 3 seconds. If you nerf Sig Hum to hard no one can use it in any other builds, I rather hit the dervs with a nerf along with a mantra nerf and see what happens. Some one enlighten me and point to another skill that is equal to this wounding BS. Don't forget though that 3 second deep wound on 5e on a 4pip character is just another part of the problem, SOH+Conjure, these things are sometimes hitting harder than an Eviscerate and cause bleeding!!!!, Chilling Victories for 160+ and mystics for 120... Something just needs to be done about that Signet Mesmer template also along with some derv nerfs. At least if you have to dump 10e every 20 seconds that mesmer wont be buffing 2x melee and having the option for taking mirrors.

aznhalf · Jun 09, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Cause signets to have a recharge even if they're canceled. The ability to cancel sig hum as many times as you please is about as dumb as the glyph+aegis of old. It wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to keep down.

Now I realize this required a change in game mechanics so it'll never happen but its a thought.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 09, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by aznhalf

Cause signets to have a recharge even if they're canceled. The ability to cancel sig hum as many times as you please is about as dumb as the glyph+aegis of old. It wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to keep down.

Now I realize this required a change in game mechanics so it'll never happen but its a thought.

Bad idea, the root of the problem is Mantra of Inscriptions, faking hum sig isn't comparable to faking Aegis as you can't get a fast cast on signets, so you're still gonna have to get off a >2s signet.

Snow Bunny · Jun 09, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

It's the combination of the Sig Hum Mes and the Derv that's just making things retarded.

The derv is huge pressure by itself, and sig humming the RC effectively kills the monk's ability to clean it up. Plus, the Mes has SoJ, which means he can simply stomp any monk throwing up Aegis.
Some of you are saying sig hum is fine by itself. Look at the skill - non elite, no energy, no drawback disabling an elite? Doesn't anyone remember Keystone mesmers, which could simply elite lock the LoD and roll teams? The mesmer and the derv need to be worked on hard.

And if you're saying Paragon's are bad/useless, stfu.

DarkNecrid · Jun 09, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

imo (LOOOL) I'd possible make MoI just 1...25%, Mesmer signets only.

For humsig, idk. I was thinking of this earlier randomly:
Signet of Humility - 0e/3AT/40sRT
You & target foe's elite skill is disabled for 1...5 seconds. Your elite isn't disabled and this skill's effect lasts twice as long if target foe is using their elite skill when you finish casting. (ok wordy, but you know...use in this case means being displayed under their health bar)

A bit weird, but a bit interesting imo.