Curse

Super Igor · Jun 07, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Dang, nerf wounding strike please T.T oh and signet mesmers too...

Riotgear · Jun 07, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I really don't care too much about TA, it's always been full of broken builds, the game should be balanced primarily around GvG, if TA has big balance issues that can be fixed without hurting GvG I don't mind

I can't think of anything that's a problem in TA that would negatively affect GvG balance if nerfed.

Quote:

I really don't see much of a problem with Scythe A/Ds any more, a Rend Enchantments pretty much destroys the entire build, though I guess Way of the Master could take a small nerf and Critical Defenses could get it's PvP version obliterated.

Only reason Scythe A/D isn't as much of a problem is because Wounding Strike is even worse (not that you can't put Wounding Strike on a A/D). The problem is scythe damage more than anything, but among the things they will actually fix, I think the problem is more with Shadow Walk and Assassin's Remedy.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 07, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Only reason Scythe A/D isn't as much of a problem is because Wounding Strike is even worse (not that you can't put Wounding Strike on a A/D). The problem is scythe damage more than anything, but among the things they will actually fix, I think the problem is more with Shadow Walk and Assassin's Remedy.

A/Ds use Shadow Walk in TA and thats a problem somehow?

shoogi · Jun 07, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

The problem is shadow stepping being a bad mechanic that should be revisioned.
Now, let's make productive use of that pvp/pve seperation and hit shadow stepping without massive pve QQ. GW was a better game without it.

Riotgear · Jun 07, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

A/Ds use Shadow Walk in TA and thats a problem somehow?

I was referring to the A/D's in HA and GvG.

Krill · Jun 08, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if anet does nothing about this instagib wounding spike shit, sin or derv, it can only mean they don't give a shit about their game any more now that they have all our money and want people to quit playing.

urania · Jun 08, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

My point was that you can still remove it, use prots (although they wouldn't last as long generally), use skills like return, remove conditions, etc.

Of course you're not going to want to spam through it, but it's not comparable to shroud of silence.

I agree that it's broken though, and not just in TA, give it a cast time and an actual cost (a little more than 1 energy) additionally a slightly longer duration combined with a longer recharge (1..6s 15r) would make the skill a lot more skill based as well as more counterable.

nevertheless, when used in spikes it does a fairly similar job to what shroud did, only not for such a long time.

also, mind that with wail up the energy bar is reduced by 6 peeps of energy, making it even harder to get a spell out if you're low on energy.

but the point is that when used correctly - on vital spells and on well-timed spikes there is not much you can do but watch and cry and hope a 30 heal woh will prevent a kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I really don't care too much about TA, it's always been full of broken builds, the game should be balanced primarily around GvG, if TA has big balance issues that can be fixed without hurting GvG I don't mind but I really don't see much of a problem with Scythe A/Ds any more, a Rend Enchantments pretty much destroys the entire build, though I guess Way of the Master could take a small nerf and Critical Defenses could get it's PvP version obliterated.

as desktructor pointed out, it has been proven so many times already that broken builds tend to foster in ra and ta for a while, normally for a few months or weeks and then sooner or later always mitigate to gvg and ha, so why not fixing them when they havent spread over to the major gw formats yet instead of waiting for that first?

also, TA was fairly balanced out before the 2 monk team rise and the useless necro buffs.

last but not least, scythe sins with wound strike still tend to be quite a nuisance. but i have more of a problem with balth pendulum.

Draikin · Jun 08, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

All shadow steps - 15 second recharge increase.

Why not just add an aftercast delay (1.25 seconds for example) to all PvP shadow stepping skills instead? I think that would solve at least one of the problems with the mechanic, while increasing the recharge is just a workaround that is only actually effective when the skill isn't worth using anymore (Shadow Prison vs Dark Prison for example). Not that nerfing every shadow stepping skill into the ground would be a bad thing, but that's not going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

as desktructor pointed out, it has been proven so many times already that broken builds tend to foster in ra and ta for a while, normally for a few months or weeks and then sooner or later always mitigate to gvg and ha, so why not fixing them when they havent spread over to the major gw formats yet instead of waiting for that first?

I have to agree here, especially since a lot of the problem skills in the arenas can be balanced without having any significant impact on GvG (and the impact on PvE is now no longer an issue either).

zling · Jun 08, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

you guys the claim that Wounding Strike is a problematic skill are just mistaken.
whats problematic are the 2 main templates that use it:
A/D Scythe Sin
D/E Wounding Spiker

the problem doesnt lie with the skill itself but rather with the ridiculous damage the other skills in the build allow for.
in both cases the majority of the damage obviously comes from the Scythe's 9-41 damage. as for the other sources:
A/D- high critical strikes %age pretty much guarantees max Scythe damage, this is the main problem with the build!
D/E- Conjure Lightning+Strength and Honour(from a Smiter) pretty much guarantees consistent high damage, this is the main problem with the build.

the fact that both builds use Wounding Strike inorder to spam Deep Wound isnt the problem by itself, Foul Feast, Draw Conditions, Restore Conditions among other options are used throughout the PvP arenas. the problem is the Deep Wound+ridiculous damage combination.

so instead of nerfing the totaly legitimate skill Wounding Strike, which by itself isnt as overpowered as people say it is ANet should nerf the stacking of Conjures with Strength and Honour as well as the whole A/D template. or just lower Scythe's max damage and buff it's attack speed accordingly, at least for PvP. they do it for skills they can do it for weapon damage as well...

Tab · Jun 08, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Wounding is fine apart from bleeding covering dw. I think it's already been said that Conjure/Strength/Humility are the main things wrong with the build.

Robbert Monga · Jun 08, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

i would love to see Burning Shield to become shout affecting allies with shields.

Spura · Jun 08, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Random shit:
Aggressive Refrain - Change to +33% adrenaline.

Worst idea ever. 3 hits = 99% bonus. So still needs 4 hits to charge 4 adren skill. Would need to be at least 40% bonus.
My idea for this skill would be:
Change to 20% less attack skill cost and 20% shorter attack skill recharge. Without armor penalty.

See...this would make this skill less of an automatic choice.
This version would be worth taking if you had lots of attack skills and if you were a focused spear paragon. Right now AR is worth it even if you have no attack skills, because it increases adrenaline gain by 33% and autoattack by 33%. Taking this skill with a support build wouldn't be a good choice any more.

And 20% shorter attack skill recharge = less DPS buff than 25% IAS

DarkNecrid · Jun 08, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Worst idea ever. 3 hits = 99% bonus. So still needs 4 hits to charge 4 adren skill. Would need to be at least 40% bonus.

Kinda.

Some 4 "strike" skills (Cleave, Battle Rage, Rush, Riposte, "Fear Me!", "Watch Yourself!", Symbolic Strike) all cost 80 points instead of 100, meaning you could charge these 4 strike skills in 3 hits, instead of 4.

Skyros · Jun 08, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

why not change the mantra of inscription skill to treat it more like an Ele's attunement spell: change to enchant, give it a 2 sec cast time, leave recharge and duration.

as for sig of humility, i don't see see this skill destroyed just because of mantra abuse spam so why not just disable this skill instead of giving it a recharge so it cant be affected by mantra of inscriptions.

Wounding Strike recharge at 8 secs would keep it in sync with alot of other spike skills (light orb, rage, rodgorts, etc.) but 15 sec seems to long. I was thinking more of a 10 sec counter. And how about each of its condition is applied by the amt of enchants the player has on them. Like if player has on enchant they cause bleeding, 2 enchants - bleeding + dw. I think it would bring it in line more. If all else fails... you can keep the skill as is and just make it strip all enchants from the player when cast because dervs have that nice perma enchant on which makes current Wounding strike stupid.

my 2 cents.

Master Ketsu · Jun 08, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Second those who want to see a major overhaul. Small skill balances should in theory work better then changing a crapload at once like they used to, but only if those small skill balances are done well. The only way to break the stagnant meta is to attach a C4 to it, not just shake it.

DarkNecrid · Jun 08, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

plus its way more exciting when theres a buinch of big changes...I might actually play 2-3x as much, lol.

Aera · Jun 08, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

This meta is probably the most boring one ever. Needs nerfing the overused shit skills and buffing the underused skills, I'm so bored :|

Riotgear · Jun 08, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Worst idea ever. 3 hits = 99% bonus. So still needs 4 hits to charge 4 adren skill. Would need to be at least 40% bonus.

I was assuming everybody would realize that 33% means "1/3" and is 33% only because the game rounds to the nearest whole number on display and the entire purpose of the suggestion was to get them the 4 adrenaline needed for staple skills in the same amount of time but getting rid of their free IAS and nobody would actually think I was suggesting cockblocking them by 1% of an adrenaline strike.

I guess I was wrong, and should have known better since people said the same thing when I proposed it on the Wiki page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

as for sig of humility, i don't see see this skill destroyed just because of mantra abuse spam so why not just disable this skill instead of giving it a recharge so it cant be affected by mantra of inscriptions.

Because that's kind of kludging a fix on. All signets have ridiculous recharges because they're all balanced against Mantra of Inscriptions, I think that alone should signal it needs some looking at.

Skyros · Jun 08, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

maybe cause i personally don't want to see the sig mesmer to die. Its pretty neat idea and is something new (or reborn) in the current GvG / ha metas which have been pretty static for mesmer bars (e-surge + diversion + shame for GvG and PD/Power Block/Migrane mesmer in HA)

and its not kludging a fix on it. sig of humility disables one skill on their bar. It gets disabled on your bar.

Ego · Jun 09, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Except Dom Mesmers aren't completely mindless like Signet Mesmers.