Curse

erk · Jun 05, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Perhaps some enchant stripping buffs to try and deal with the SoH, Judges, Conjure problem. eg. reduce recharge on Rend Enchantments and Envenom Enchantments to 10sec. Halve the recharge time on Drain Enchantment to 10sec with a corresponding reduction in health/energy gain so it's a more dynamic skill.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 05, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

The problem is not any of those enchantments.

Nature Loves Me · Jun 05, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Are you kidding me?

I don't even know how to respond to that. Except for the fact that when your RC's disabled because of sig hum, you can't take it out. Really, stop being terrible.

Oh, so since your RC is disabled you have to go nerf the source of the problem eh? lol

Hey! That Diversion mesmer disabled my Healers Boon! All damage should be reduced by 50% so I can still heal better!

Edit: Btw, when you're using an RC, an RC removes all conditions, so how is DW not being on top THE problem? =\ And it's not like any one else on your team even HAS a condition removal other than the HB lol. I've rarely seen a build where members had a condition removal for themselves when they had a rc... and as it for being spammable, many professions have their builds that have spammable conditions, if there wasn't then RC would be overpowered..

C2K · Jun 05, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Izzy believes that Wounding Strike isn't an issue.

Discuss.

Izzy needs to TA and HA some more...

horseradish · Jun 05, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature Loves Me

Oh, so since your RC is disabled you have to go nerf the source of the problem eh? lol

Hey! That Diversion mesmer disabled my Healers Boon! All damage should be reduced by 50% so I can still heal better!

If one character is able to disable your group's condition removal 100% of the time....it's overpowered. Diversion is not.

Shut up. You don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:

Edit: Btw, when you're using an RC, an RC removes all conditions, so how is DW not being on top THE problem? =\

RC is shut down. All you have left is Dismiss. That's where the condition stack becomes a problem.

Quote:

And it's not like any one else on your team even HAS a condition removal other than the HB lol. I've rarely seen a build where members had a condition removal for themselves when they had a rc...

THAT'S WHY THE SIGNET MESMER SHUTS DOWN THE RC MONK.

Riotgear · Jun 05, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Izzy believes that Wounding Strike isn't an issue.

Discuss.

I guess Izzy wants to go home early today.

What DOES he think is a problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

ummm... an elite dodge that also blocks melee and has different duration/recharge? whats the point?

There is none. What functionality are you going to give it that's going to kick Natural Stride off of any non-degenerate ranger bar that isn't horrifically overpowered?

It was originally a PvE running skill. It worked fine at that, it should have stayed that.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 05, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Perhaps some enchant stripping buffs to try and deal with the SoH, Judges, Conjure problem. eg. reduce recharge on Rend Enchantments and Envenom Enchantments to 10sec. Halve the recharge time on Drain Enchantment to 10sec with a corresponding reduction in health/energy gain so it's a more dynamic skill.

No... if anything (besides making conjure and soh not stack anymore) add some recharge to SoH so it's actually worth stripping, Conjure is fine seeing as it has a pretty long recharge, stripping it actually does something.

Zuranthium · Jun 05, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

The problem is not any of those enchantments.

Indeed.

Rend Enchantments on a 10 second recharge is one of the worst suggestions ever.

~Z

the_deSKtructor · Jun 05, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

enchantment removal skills got buffed enough already...

Problem. · Jun 05, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

I realize they do currently stack. I'm mostly commenting on changing it to holy damage doesn't change the stacking problem but merely switches the build from Conjure/Strength to Judge's Insight/ Strength which is slightly inferior b/c of Judge's duration but still the same problem, Me/mo Strength mesmer would be able to support JI. If strength of honor only applies to physical damage then JI wouldn't stack with it. Which it was what i've been advocating.

The language i used stating "it would now stack" should have been worded "Derv's would now use this broken combination and blow stuff up same as before".

I just don't like the change to holy damage idea. All melee buffing concepts seem to take away from the skill and finese of the position making it easier to play and reward bad play b/c of the extra damage. I'll ignore the flame from you since you misinterpretted my thoughts.

If thats the case, then you seriously need to think about what you want to say before you say it. You may wanna reword your "solution" also to say, that the bonus damage from SoH only triggers on physical attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I like this idea. Make it also so inscriptions is somehow penalized when using a non-mesmer signet; eg, "Any non-mesmer signets cause you to lose 5...2...2 energy, or mantra of inscriptions ends." It's a better alternative, imo, than out-and-out killing the build. Such a fix would also help the holy wrath nonsense.

That change wouldn't kill Holy Wrath on signet mesmers. The reason, the only way Holy Wrath is going to end is if you have negative pips of regen, are zeroed out on energy, and lose energy. One person can maintain 4 Holy Wraths, be zeroed out on energy, and will never lose the bonds unless they are stripped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Izzy believes that Wounding Strike isn't an issue.

Discuss.

I can see why he would say that. It goes back to Polly's quote of chasing symptoms rather than the core issues of the problem. However, I dont agree with it not being an issue at all. I do feel its an issue, but I would change other skills before touching Wounding Strike to see how it plays out. If I were Izzy, I would changed the order of conditions on Wounding Strike alone. Wounding Strike only becomes a problem when you have abusive enchantments such as the current Conjure/SoH and the Assassin Enchantments.

FrAnt1c² · Jun 05, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Buff Bsurge and ward vs melee back to where they were, and almost none of the above is a big problem.

Nature Loves Me · Jun 05, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

THAT'S WHY THE SIGNET MESMER SHUTS DOWN THE RC MONK.

Exactly.

You only keep proving my point lol. The problem is not Dervs. It's mesmers. Lol.

It seems also like you want to keep conditions off your team all the time. Now wouldn't that be unfair to the people who want to keep conditions ON your team all the time? :P

*cough* Contagion *cough*

Edit: Also, I've never had too much of a problem with Wounding + Shut down mes, Just have someone pressurethe mes with Warmongers, and/or if you have a mesmer yourself shut the other mesmer down... Mesmers are always one of my top priorities when I play. I have lost to them sometimes, sometimes rolled :X but not in the majority.

Just a random fact that MAY provide evidence to your opinion:
I did form a random team of just 5 Dervs, todl them to bring wounding strike, got 2 hb monks and a rc, and the first team we went against we rolled, less than like 20 seconds. :X Hehe. Positive they were like a R5+ Group :X they were like wtf, and some other team we rolled was like 5 Dervs 3 monks? Is that the new lame :X lol.

I'm not saying Wounding strike isn't extremely powerful, I'm just against the idea of DW being on top. Recharge can be 5-8 seconds and I'll still be ok with it :X just as long as it gets covered ^^

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 05, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

If Izzy doesn't think spamming deep wounds and bleeding on a 3 sec recharge is a problem I want crip slash on 3 adren, everyone can still use RC right? It's this kind of logic I truly wonder about. I'd really like to put back in my joke changes to the warrior class and have Izzy tell me directly why those buffs can't be done. Many cried foul to those changes but on a more serious note completely missed the correlation between those changes and the current dervish template.

Problem. · Jun 05, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

Buff Bsurge and ward vs melee back to where they were, and almost none of the above is a big problem.

Izzy wont do that because he wants things to die. In a way, having this no defense meta might actually highlight some of the inherent flaws/imbalances in offense.

However, the underlying issue above all issues is VoD. Always was, always has been.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 05, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Ward should stay as it is, I wouldn't mind BSurge getting a little buff (not as good as it was before) but I don't miss it tbh.

horseradish · Jun 05, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature Loves Me

Exactly.

You only keep proving my point lol. The problem is not Dervs. It's mesmers. Lol.

Where did you mention anything about Mesmers? You only mention how dervs shouldn't be nerfed because "they've been nerfed enough" and "the condition stack doesn't matter because of RC", which is why I only spoke about dervs.

Having a near permanent speed boost you can keep up with an IAS along with the ridiculous damage from scythes buffed with Conjure and SoH makes for an OP char.

Sure, the derv isn't the only problem, but it's a big one. Surely you know that.

The Mesmer is OP too, but bringing a water ele with Rust and/or a mesmer with Ignorance/Complicate doesn't always work, especially against a competent team.

Quote:

It seems also like you want to keep conditions off your team all the time. Now wouldn't that be unfair to the people who want to keep conditions ON your team all the time? :P

*cough* Contagion *cough*

What? The point of bringing an RC monk is to remove deadly conditions from your team. They're often used with a cover condition. RC takes care of that, which is why the mesmer SoH the RC. The condition stack becomes a problem now. Really, switching those conditions around doesn't mean WS got nerfed. It would be balanced. (moreso than right now anyways).

Keeping your team condition free all the time is just stupid (i.e. bleeding), and how is not removing conditions on your team fair to your opponent? You might as well /resign, cuz you're not putting up a fair fight.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 05, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature Loves Me

Edit: Also, I've never had too much of a problem with Wounding + Shut down mes, Just have someone pressurethe mes with Warmongers, and/or if you have a mesmer yourself shut the other mesmer down... Mesmers are always one of my top priorities when I play. I have lost to them sometimes, sometimes rolled :X but not in the majority.

No one cares, come back when you play at a respectable level and actually know what you're talking about.

GourangaPizza · Jun 05, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I never understood why Shroud of Silence got nerfed so badly when Wail of Doom is the obvious superior hex. Is Shroud of Silence used to be the skill that caused alot of QQ in GvG or is WoD has yet to receive any form of widespread usage in that area?

Some GvG veteran enlighten me on that.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 05, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Wail of Doom is a lot less accessible, it doesnt prevent casting either.

Shroud of Silence was only used in a very specific build anyway.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 05, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

I never understood why Shroud of Silence got nerfed so badly when Wail of Doom is the obvious superior hex. Is Shroud of Silence used to be the skill that caused alot of QQ in GvG or is WoD has yet to receive any form of widespread usage in that area?

Some GvG veteran enlighten me on that.

Because Shroud of Silence was like having WOD on a sins bar, it also contributed to the rest of the sin bar meeting the hex condition. I don't think there should be such skills ingame that totally shutdown a whole char because of one skill, surely anyone with a brain would have concluded if Shroud with a much longer recharge got nerfed why was wod buffed, then again WOD has a harder access, more points needed and tied to a crappy necro primary, still doesn't change the fact that said skills shouldn't belong in PvP.