Curse

Boogz · Apr 13, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

i wonder why ANet ever implemented paragons and dervs...

moriz · Apr 13, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how anet made the dervish:

dev 1: "lookit those poor wammos. they think they are guud, but they R teh sux"

dev 2: "yeah i agree. their enchantz R teh weaks, their attakz R teh suxs"

dev 3: "dey R 2 dumz to realiz dat defenz iz not teh way 2 go."

dev 4: "i knoz! letz make a new profesionz datz teh same as teh wammoz, but BETTAH!"

dev 1: "ya, letz gib it BETTAH enchantz, and BETTAH attakz"

result: the dervish. AKA: a mending wammo's wet dream.

so the answer to shoyon's question: dervishes are simply insigificant to be worth any thought.

that's why
12 characters

DreamWind · Apr 13, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

i wonder why ANet ever implemented paragons and dervs...

Or assassins, or ritualists, or...eh nevermind.

la_cabra_de_vida · Apr 14, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how anet made the dervish:

dev 1: "lookit those poor wammos. they think they are guud, but they R teh sux"

dev 2: "yeah i agree. their enchantz R teh weaks, their attakz R teh suxs"

dev 3: "dey R 2 dumz to realiz dat defenz iz not teh way 2 go."

dev 4: "i knoz! letz make a new profesionz datz teh same as teh wammoz, but BETTAH!"

dev 1: "ya, letz gib it BETTAH enchantz, and BETTAH attakz"

result: the dervish. AKA: a mending wammo's wet dream.

so the answer to shoyon's question: dervishes are simply insigificant to be worth any thought.

Sounds about right.

erk · Apr 14, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

That's just what TA needs: moar Build Wars

It needs something, cause it's as dead as a dodo, just a handful of teams farming RA groups as they come through, I think there were 6 people in International, and about 10 in the American staging areas when I just checked a few minutes ago.

FoxBat · Apr 14, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Or assassins, or ritualists, or...eh nevermind.

Or Necromancers. I don't know why everyone glosses over those.

DreamWind · Apr 14, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Or Necromancers. I don't know why everyone glosses over those.

Because they were around when the game was good.

urania · Apr 14, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

It needs something, cause it's as dead as a dodo, just a handful of teams farming RA groups as they come through, I think there were 6 people in International, and about 10 in the American staging areas when I just checked a few minutes ago.

apparently you just checked at dead hours

its not as dead as it is broken...

erk · Apr 14, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

apparently you just checked at dead hours

its not as dead as it is broken...

Perhaps, but 12mths ago at the same hours there would have been 2 districts alive and kicking. What are the busiest TA hours now? (GMT)

urania · Apr 14, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

evenings (after 7 or 8 pm) gmt+1 and late afternoons american time (gmt-6/-7), i think. I dont play THAT often now to say tha for sure.
in the morning euro times ull mostly face koreans and ra teams, otherwise u're likely to face farmers (most typically, 2 monks+2 sins tardway) and a few good balanced builds (became rly rare tho).

also, the only time i remember ta having 2 districts was during events...maybe sometimes in the old boon times, but im not sure.

shoogi · Apr 15, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

great post, 5/5.

exterminate shadow stepping!

edit- about ladders. I had this idea going on for a while...
not ladders, but Record NPCs, like in challenge missions.
At every arena (ra, ta, ha) there will be an NPC (call him Zaishen Recorder or something) that will keep records for that arena. The main record will be consecutive wins ofc, and as in challenges there will be daily/weekly/monthy/whatever documentation. If you want, then the record could be kept in a ladder online. At the great temple of balthazar there will be an NPC that will have all records. Besides consecutive wins, the NPCs will also keep other small records such as longest/shortest battle, longest flawless streak, etc. To increase luxury, the record holders for consecutive wins will have a special temporary displayable title (call it a Medal?) with a cool name and maybe even a special color, or a unique emote. That title/emote/whatever will go away when the player doesn't hold the record anymore, but his name will be visible at the main records npc in the gtob (a tab for past records). There will also be more prestigious titles for players that hold multiple records. When a major record is broken, it will be announced in green text at the great temple of balthazar and at the spoken arena.
This won't save guild wars but it's cute, no? a bit more luxury for pvp experts that don't gvg or hb can't hurt.

kranius · Apr 15, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

shadow step is teh 1337

lacasner · Apr 15, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Hexes need to have a conditional effect that activates them when a user does something to make them work, in a way like domination magic. If not, and if they stay in the current position they are in, in a 4v4 format like Ta or even if someone runs pure hex stack in GvG, they promote passivity and don't require as much skill as other characters.

Therefor, hexes should work more along the lines of :Target foe is hexed with this spell. If target foe does X or/and X, effect of the hex will take place. If target foe does not do X or/and X in the duration of the hex, then the hex ends. If target foe does, a different duration of the hex is applied and the effect of the hex resumes.

I think something along these lines would help the game as it progresses into the "beyond", and I agree with most of what Gus said as well. Any opinions?

la_cabra_de_vida · Apr 15, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Hexes need to have a conditional effect that activates them when a user does something to make them work, in a way like domination magic. If not, and if they stay in the current position they are in, in a 4v4 format like Ta or even if someone runs pure hex stack in GvG, they promote passivity and don't require as much skill as other characters.

Therefor, hexes should work more along the lines of :Target foe is hexed with this spell. If target foe does X or/and X, effect of the hex will take place. If target foe does not do X or/and X in the duration of the hex, then the hex ends. If target foe does, a different duration of the hex is applied and the effect of the hex resumes.

I think something along these lines would help the game as it progresses into the "beyond", and I agree with most of what Gus said as well. Any opinions?

Ineptitude/CLumsiness/Wandering Eye are/were good examples of that. (Should've been nerfed to activate on attack skill instead) I the kinda of hexes you are talking about diversion/shame are good. But you could probably make a case for sticky hexes as well, hard as it may be since the only way to make them work is some sort of heavy hex based build.

Splitisoda · Apr 15, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

remove factions and NF. Yoo good skills, almost EVERY OP(overpowered) build has lots of skill from those 2 campaigns. Mending Touch = bye condition free fighters.

Even though i have all campaigns, i bet prophecies would be better only..

Or you could have a

Prophecies only PvP arena (only prophecies skills+ classes War,Mo,Necro,Me,R,E..)

Factions only PvP arena (only factions skills + classes)

NIghtfall only PvP arena (only nf skills+classes)

Yichi · Apr 15, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

For you all saying that a proph only meta or arena would be good should honestly take another look back at the builds ran during the prophecies meta, then look at the skills today and see just how much the builds have changed or have been removed since then and realize just how bad it would actually turn out.

We had this discussion on vent last night, think about it:

Boon prot - gone
Gale Warriors - gone
Blackout rangers - gone
Eprod HP flaggers - almost dead
Esurge mesmers - no where near as effective

and these are just a handful, there are plenty more I could list with the different skill tweaks from the old proph meta. Face it, that meta would never be as good now as it was then.

Greedy Gus · Apr 16, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Yep, it's the quick fix, but in reality doesn't really work the same as actively balancing skills. Even if all you want to do is go back to an old meta, it will require some changes to be fun gameplay.

DreamWind · Apr 16, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

For you all saying that a proph only meta or arena would be good should honestly take another look back at the builds ran during the prophecies meta, then look at the skills today and see just how much the builds have changed or have been removed since then and realize just how bad it would actually turn out.

We had this discussion on vent last night, think about it:

Boon prot - gone
Gale Warriors - gone
Blackout rangers - gone
Eprod HP flaggers - almost dead
Esurge mesmers - no where near as effective

and these are just a handful, there are plenty more I could list with the different skill tweaks from the old proph meta. Face it, that meta would never be as good now as it was then.

When I say go back to Prophecies only, I mean go back with the skills changed back to their original good forms and all (obviously not the VERY original, I mean around the time of the championships).

When I say go back to Prophecies, I mean erase the last 2 years from memory quite honestly.

shoogi · Apr 17, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

When I say go back to Prophecies only, I mean go back with the skills changed back to their original good forms and all (obviously not the VERY original, I mean around the time of the championships).

When I say go back to Prophecies, I mean erase the last 2 years from memory quite honestly.

That would be jolly well but you know they can't do that. And the game was relatively balanced then because there were 450 skills, not 1250, and the completely unnecessary professions that keep screwing up the meta didn't exist back then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

i wonder why ANet ever implemented paragons and dervs...

To please pve audience that wanted 'bards' and a dedicated wammo profession. Pve community is much larger than pvp community, which puts it higher up in the priority chain.

lutz · Apr 17, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

No, THIS was the best gwg post regarding balance I've ever seen.

No, it really was just "delete everything after Proph/Factions".

Skill balance right now is better than it has been in a long time. To be honest, there are very little skills/builds that need changes. Sure, a couple skills need minor fixes but for the most part GvG is more balanced than it ever has been.

There will always be certain skills you need to shut down, and shutting certain critical people/skills down is the difference between a good team and a bad team. Saying Mending Touch is overpowered is pretty illogical - removing Mending Touch would just result in two Cripshot rangers watching each other degen themselves out.