Curse

Yichi · Jul 16, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The difference is that after some rounds of balancing, things were at a pretty balanced point. Then Factions came, a few rounds later it was balanced again. Then Nightfall came, and balance just keeps getting more screwed up via Izzy's decision to fight power creep with more power creep.

This pretty much sums up what went wrong with guildwars PvP in a nutshell.

PallyKali · Jul 16, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

So uh where y'all going next? WoW, GW2? I can't find a balanced PvP.

Hell if Anet just dedicated some servers to Prophecies-only I'd PvP that for sure.

Alazardragoon · Jul 17, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Even though all these players are leaving because the game is not competitive or balanced, at the high level that they are looking for. A lot of us casual non hard core players are grateful for the same thing. And even now new players come to guild wars every day. Most players that I know in guild wars are not hard core players, And yes you maybe right, the hard core high end players are diminishing slowly, But most of the casual / non hard core players are still enjoying this at a "Fun" "Entertainment" level. And for that I believe guild wars is great.

DutchSmurf · Jul 17, 2008, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

This pretty much sums up what went wrong with guildwars PvP in a nutshell.

I don't agree. Balance is only a very small problem of GW PvP. The real things that killed (or made it never take off) PvP are the horrible GvG format (VoD, npcs, maps) and the complete lack of any guild/party search that actually works. And most of all that last one. I think there are thousands of great PvP players out there that will never get into high ranks because Anet made a game about guilds without a guild-search function. If those players only could find each other then we wouldn't have discussions like this.
GW is, even in the current state, a great PvP game. Still the best out there in its genre. It is a completely failure as esport tho.

DarkNecrid · Jul 17, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

I don't agree. Balance is only a very small problem of GW PvP. The real things that killed (or made it never take off) PvP are the horrible GvG format (VoD, npcs, maps) and the complete lack of any guild/party search that actually works. And most of all that last one. I think there are thousands of great PvP players out there that will never get into high ranks because Anet made a game about guilds without a guild-search function. If those players only could find each other then we wouldn't have discussions like this.
GW is, even in the current state, a great PvP game. Still the best out there in its genre. It is a completely failure as esport tho.

/agree

15chars

Divinus Stella · Jul 17, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PallyKali

So uh where y'all going next? WoW, GW2? I can't find a balanced PvP.

Hell if Anet just dedicated some servers to Prophecies-only I'd PvP that for sure.

I think most people will jump to GW2, WoW has been out too long.

If you want balanced PvP then GW isnt so bad, a lot of what people complain about is fairly minor, recently the meta has been mainly balanced builds, there has been a fair amount of smite and dervish abuse from the lesser skilled guilds but i think those are getting slowly balanced.

Frank Dudenstein · Jul 17, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

I think most people will jump to GW2, WoW has been out too long.

If you want balanced PvP then GW isnt so bad, a lot of what people complain about is fairly minor, recently the meta has been mainly balanced builds, there has been a fair amount of smite and dervish abuse from the lesser skilled guilds but i think those are getting slowly balanced.

Quoted for truth .. the balance in the game is not bad now .. dont be overwhelmed by all the QQing here.

The problem is that Anet's balancing skills have increased linearly .. but the communities' expectations have increased exponentially.

People in this forum have a ridiculously rosy views of the past .. like Prophecies was some paradigm of balance. Truth is, if you brought back the 'prophecies' version of balance .. today's community would go QQ like banshees. Gale warriors? 7 second blackout on a 10 second recharge? Diversion on a 2 second cast and 10 second recharge? Remind me again how 'balanced' prophecies was? Yes .. I agree that Nightfall introduced a serious and unwelcome power creep (power spike is more like it) but lets be realistic about prophecies .. our standards weren't nearly as high then...

Baba_Beast · Jul 17, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

there's too much people QQing about the imbalance but they are so minor it doesnt even affect your gameplay.

I've watch GW TV for almost 2 hours yesterday and more than 80% of the teams were "balance" consisting of 2 melees, 2 monks, 1 flag runner, 1 ranger, 1 mesmer for pressure on monks and 1 M/el ice.

I just don't understand why so much people are complaining about balance. OMG in more than 1000 skills, wounding strike is a bit overpower!!! Let's make 10 posts about it on guru and leave the game because of unbalance!!! lol some people are funny... yes, sometimes there are build like RT spike or necro spike completely overpowered, but these build are only played by bad guilds and usually get nerfed after 2-3 weeks

GW is the BEST balanced MMORPG out there, cause it's the only game with everyone having the same gear and level cap being that low. The only games more balanced than GW are FPS because there's no "build" to create. if you're so much concerned about balance, go play CS and stop whining on these forums.

erk · Jul 18, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

There are more basic PvP issues than balance and the technicalities mentioned above.

FA/JQ - Dormant - perhaps making NPC in Guild Hall transport you to game like AB would improve them.

AB - Map rotation causes a sudden drop off in opponents and long waits. eg. if you are playing Kurzick it taked 10-15min to get a game on Grentz but instant on Etnaran Keys. Redesign maps to attract players.

RA - Not random, usually only one team gets re-rolled each game, high probability that you will face a team with a Monk that just won, whilst your team does not have any healer so you get pwned

TA - Staging area dormant most hours, relies on RA spillover to avoid playing the same team over and over. Not sure how to fix.

HA - Snobbish, hard to get a break before bambi but probably the best of the lot atm. Can get into PUG easy enough when n00b if patient. Make title check box display on r1 instead of r3 so people know you have a little experience.

GvG - No PUG system usually played by small purposeful guilds or a elite subset of a larger guild. Very hard to get into, painful waiting, only one team from a guild at a time, AT's screwed ladder. Make a PUG system, reduce guild member requirement from 4 to 3. There are people who want to GvG all the time, just not 8 in the one guild usually. Make the ladder mean something again for guild that can't commit to AT's.

HvH - Well not really full on PvP, the AI's do most of the work so a different audience.

Yue · Jul 18, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baba_Beast

there's too much people QQing about the imbalance but they are so minor it doesnt even affect your gameplay.

I've watch GW TV for almost 2 hours yesterday and more than 80% of the teams were "balance" consisting of 2 melees, 2 monks, 1 flag runner, 1 ranger, 1 mesmer for pressure on monks and 1 M/el ice.

I just don't understand why so much people are complaining about balance. OMG in more than 1000 skills, wounding strike is a bit overpower!!! Let's make 10 posts about it on guru and leave the game because of unbalance!!! lol some people are funny... yes, sometimes there are build like RT spike or necro spike completely overpowered, but these build are only played by bad guilds and usually get nerfed after 2-3 weeks

GW is the BEST balanced MMORPG out there, cause it's the only game with everyone having the same gear and level cap being that low. The only games more balanced than GW are FPS because there's no "build" to create. if you're so much concerned about balance, go play CS and stop whining on these forums.

Balance is still an issue, but while the game may be more balanced now, you're failing to realize that alot more people play for VoD. Considering the trend iQ started with the glyphsac metshower, any team playing competitively now plays for VoD. It essentially brings you back to where you started, but instead of fixing tons of broken skills now, you have to fix a broken game mechanic.

glountz · Jul 18, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Prophecies were seriously imbalanced, not only for skills but also for mechanics.
Gale lock lieutnant's helm warriors were completely broken. I remember every team running 4 galelock warriors back then.
Iway was uber strong not only because of broken skills, but also because of a broken mechanic: stacking IAS.
Nightfall PvP event showed that the two new profs were completely broken. Not in their skills, but in their design. The rampaging of D/Mo rolling through the ladder with their broken mysticism was horrible. Mysticism was nerfed, but as nobody then took advantage of the second broken prof, the parangon, Leadership broken uber energy engine issue was never adressed.
The paraturtle came also from a broken mechanic: armor stacking.
So I would say imbalance in GW is in the mechanics and in the skills.
Quite frankly, I found that Factions did not introduced so much imbalance. I can't remember of a serious gimmick except the introducing of copycat skills (especially for necroes) that led to touch ranger and necro blood spike.

Morgan Crowe · Jul 18, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

There's isn't a big number of imballanced skills, but a lot of skills are underpowered.

Just take the axewarr as example. I think I saw 3 Warrs (and Goren) in the last two years running Cleave or Triple Chop. Eviscerate is way much better.

The best example for bad skills is the profession Monk. Aura of Faith, Amity, Defender's Zeal, Healing Burst, Life Barrier, Life Sheat, Mark of Protection, Ray of Judgement, Unyielding Aura, Withdraw Hexes and Word of Censure are completely useless. I don't even know the effect of some skills mentioned here. Plus some skills, which aren't played any longer, e.g. Blessed Light, Divert Hexes and LoD.

If those useless skills would be buffed and would become useful at least it would be really good for the meta game. Not only the 2 Warr, Ranger, Mesmer, Me/E Balanced, maybe you could see some different builds then. But this will never happen .. it's just too difficult.

There will be always some broken game mechanics. Ports were nerfed after 2 years, but this shouldn't happened when Me/E were that dominant.

DarkNecrid · Jul 18, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Blessed Light doesn't need buffed, Word of Healing needs nerfed plz.

wuzzman · Jul 18, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Serious pvp game? ha, I couldn't take guild wars seriously even if I really wanted to. Hell even if they put money in the tournaments again I still wouldn't care, builds are the same, play styles are the same, basically HA and GVG has turned into one big ursanway fest. At least in pve you can play solo and show off your own ability and skill. Where the hell does skill and ability matter in this game anyway? You know someone in the top guild you automatically a great player, all boys club bs at it's finest. Where are the different play styles and tactics in GvG? What happened to build diversity in HA? What does a top player in GvG or HA can do that some random RA player can't do and there trained monkey? Why does GvG and HA vent chat come down to "3,2,1". Where is the movement and position in GVG and HA anyway? Why does it boil down to how many spikes can you do before your monks run out of energy? Why are there 3-4 healers in GVG and HA teams? Why do builds in HA and GVG come down to whoever brings the most healers and defense and still manage to have a barely successful spike wins?

If you ever played Team fortress 2 you will understand this analogy; Guild wars is like watching 2 engineers who have placed level 3 sentries in the back of their respective bases attempt to kill each other. The sad part is both engineers think it's fun.

bungusmaximus · Jul 18, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

AB - Map rotation causes a sudden drop off in opponents and long waits. eg. if you are playing Kurzick it taked 10-15min to get a game on Grentz but instant on Etnaran Keys. Redesign maps to attract players.

Agreed wholeheartedly, I just doubt if anet will go through the trouble. I love ab's though, and a lot of people still play it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

RA - Not random, usually only one team gets re-rolled each game, high probability that you will face a team with a Monk that just won, whilst your team does not have any healer so you get pwned

At least it's alive, besides, I got plenty glads on monkless teams. People should stop bringing pure offense and praying for a healer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

TA - Staging area dormant most hours, relies on RA spillover to avoid playing the same team over and over. Not sure how to fix.

Fix 4-5 skills (see TA thread) and add a ladder, profit...

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Make title check box display on r1 instead of r3 so people know you have a little experience.

Good and simple idea

. The snobbism, however, can't be fixed i'm afraid. I kinda like HA, but the overall attitude scares me away from that place. The HA games I played I was in a dedicated guild (which isn't very hard to find).

I personally like GW pvp a lot, it's fast paced and deep. PUGing however is usually a nightmare, people tend to be idiots/sore losers. Some people think the equivalent of losing a match in HA is having your balls cut off without anaesthesia. Apart from some funny balance issues I think it isn't too bad.

rii · Jul 19, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Omg Izzy plays TF2? Awful game... anyone know what class he uses?
I'm guessing engineer, and he never fixes anything till it's about to blow up.
amirite/amirite?

-Pluto- · Jul 19, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

GvG - No PUG system usually played by small purposeful guilds or a elite subset of a larger guild. Very hard to get into, painful waiting, only one team from a guild at a time, AT's screwed ladder. Make a PUG system, reduce guild member requirement from 4 to 3. There are people who want to GvG all the time, just not 8 in the one guild usually. Make the ladder mean something again for guild that can't commit to AT's.

If they made a pug system, guild member requirement wouldn't need to go up. I'm thinking something like an outpost where you can go and form up a team for some simple, stress-free pug gvg against other pugs in unrated matches (though, with the current ladder, I wouldn't be surprised to see real guilds just going there for faster match-ups). I can't imagine such a system being unpopular, and think it could be a great way to get new blood into the gvg scene, since preforming well in a pug might get a new player some attention from an established GvG guild. Or an entire new GvG guild might spring up out of a pug that finds they really enjoy playing with each other.

The only thing you'd have to be really careful about is the reward system for this. Make the reward too appealing, and you just encourage grief and abuse. With ladder the way it is, I'd imagine a pretty fair amount of high ranked guilds might just go to pug island anyway, but as long as the atmosphere is kept pretty laid back, it shouldn't be a problem.

Of course this has been suggested before, and hasn't been implemented, obviously. But wouldn't it be amazing if it were?

You just got tomahawked · Jul 19, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

If they made a pug system, guild member requirement wouldn't need to go up. I'm thinking something like an outpost where you can go and form up a team for some simple, stress-free pug gvg against other pugs in unrated matches (though, with the current ladder, I wouldn't be surprised to see real guilds just going there for faster match-ups). I can't imagine such a system being unpopular, and think it could be a great way to get new blood into the gvg scene, since preforming well in a pug might get a new player some attention from an established GvG guild. Or an entire new GvG guild might spring up out of a pug that finds they really enjoy playing with each other.

The only thing you'd have to be really careful about is the reward system for this. Make the reward too appealing, and you just encourage grief and abuse. With ladder the way it is, I'd imagine a pretty fair amount of high ranked guilds might just go to pug island anyway, but as long as the atmosphere is kept pretty laid back, it shouldn't be a problem.

Of course this has been suggested before, and hasn't been implemented, obviously. But wouldn't it be amazing if it were?

Pluto is the smartest person I know.

Tearz1993 · Jul 19, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

If they made a pug system, guild member requirement wouldn't need to go up. I'm thinking something like an outpost where you can go and form up a team for some simple, stress-free pug gvg against other pugs in unrated matches (though, with the current ladder, I wouldn't be surprised to see real guilds just going there for faster match-ups). I can't imagine such a system being unpopular, and think it could be a great way to get new blood into the gvg scene, since preforming well in a pug might get a new player some attention from an established GvG guild. Or an entire new GvG guild might spring up out of a pug that finds they really enjoy playing with each other.

The only thing you'd have to be really careful about is the reward system for this. Make the reward too appealing, and you just encourage grief and abuse. With ladder the way it is, I'd imagine a pretty fair amount of high ranked guilds might just go to pug island anyway, but as long as the atmosphere is kept pretty laid back, it shouldn't be a problem.

Of course this has been suggested before, and hasn't been implemented, obviously. But wouldn't it be amazing if it were?

QFT

Sums up what everybody could want imo.

Scarred · Jul 21, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

GW will never be a game for PvP unless they decide to change the ability of people to synch groups for an arena that is supposed to be randomly formed teams. The only time its going to be anywhere close to being PvP friendly is when all the synchers migrate to GW2 and ruin the experience on that game also.
It's kind of ironic that they are synching to get a title that their own actions are making meaningless.