Curse

Teh Jace · Jun 24, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

There is no room for hexbreaker on HB bar (unless draw in on another char) and also HB bar is more prone to ench removals.

And I said 'HB infuse is imba'

Sierraa · Jun 24, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

You're going to get rended either way. Mesmers like to rend channeling :P Means no energy for monks.

HB infuse isn't imba, it's just easy. It makes it cast a bit faster which is good for those slower people who can't see the spike coming. And you should be able to preveil yourself and rip depravity anyway. Which goes back to the, you're getting rended, doesn't matter what you are, HB or WoH.

Borat X · Jun 24, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie goes guru

Let me clear something up. You're wrong. And wtf is a top ha monk? Someone with significant experience concerning bad positioning and a talent for watching health bars?

Oh, I am sorry.

I always thought that most of the good monks are trained in both HA and GvG. But if you want to insist that you are right, I have no problem with that. You can be right by yourself. It is your opinion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Again epic gvg egoists in thread about HA monks.

Good infuser has to watch field as well as prot. Cuz why to infuse a protted target and lose 10e? Sometimes spike is soo clean u have to keep target on ur mate before spikes happens.

Apparently.

But it is not just GvG or HA egoist, the few and I am sure you have seen this before, but they think they are amongst the best, and their opinions about the game and how Anet fails are absolute. Just because you are in a high rank guild, just because you are high rank in HA, does not mean you have to be think you have more say than others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Is this some kind of cheap shot from a bad QQer?

Taken something like this for example is unhealthy and disrespectful towards the community, so I hope everyone can learn from this, and learn to respect other peoples opinion sometime.

Although I am off topic, I advise you, Trinity Fire Angel, to practice practice and more practice how to monk. Monking in GvG and HA is quite different, but the experience gained on both ends are rewarding.

GL!

Trylo · Jun 24, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

since half of these posts are really not helpful...

there was a thread that Elektra Lucia started that explained some of the basics of monking that really helped me when i was starting out.

some things you should check:

keyboard. 1-8 is really not that effective, and the arrow keys are just useless on the other side of the board. esdf to move, aqwrtcvb for skills (1-8 respectively). this is the most efficient form of moving and skill using, and you will also be near tab and shift to watch enemies (note: t is set to target 'called target' originally, so you might want to remember it uses skill 5 instead if you use this setup).

positioning. brought up many times before, and also not just channel tanking ... lol.

weapon sets. easy enough to find info.

skillbars. HB infuse is easier to infuse with (obviously), and WoH is easier to deal with pressure (however DK with HB makes hexway a bit more fun when you see some 300 health heals from it). personally i would start with HB infuse because it is easier, and you can get those clean rit spikes with 1/8 cast (theyre nasty if done properly, though, ench removal on hit...). Also i would say that protting is harder (for me at least) because its just takes more focus, which i generally didnt have at 12pm when the HA teams actually started going where i live.

im sure there are a lot of threads out there, check elektra's because it was very useful for me and helped me to become a better monk, as well as HAing in general. try to get good groups, because it is really hard to monk with a bad monk who spams 0 energy after a minute.

edit:
read JR's posts theyre useful: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10296975

Akaraxle · Jun 25, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

- A good infuser isn't necessarily a good monk
- No one really plays "pressure" in HA, it's either clean spike or damage overload. Pressure is applied in several ways, many of which aren't possible in HA because of the format: it's more than burning stuff or poop'n'thump-ing.

Sierraa · Jun 25, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

- A good infuser isn't a good monk
- No one really plays "pressure" in HA, it's either clean spike or damage overload. Pressure is applied in several ways, many of which aren't possible in HA because of the format: it's more than burning stuff or poop'n'thump-ing

First off. Ouch. I'm a bad monk.

That's not very nice. I happen to take pride in my healing. And you just called all of the good infusers, like Awowa and Tommy bad.

Secondly... Sway is pressure, Rao is pressure, THat 3 derv conjure thing is pressure. Sure there's a lot of SF spike, but pressure still exists. Could you explain a bit more about the how pressure isn't possible in HA? Thanks <3

supa tim · Jun 25, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

You're going to get rended either way. Mesmers like to rend channeling :P Means no energy for monks.

HB infuse isn't imba, it's just easy. It makes it cast a bit faster which is good for those slower people who can't see the spike coming. And you should be able to preveil yourself and rip depravity anyway. Which goes back to the, you're getting rended, doesn't matter what you are, HB or WoH.

c, when you get rended as an HB, you loose 2 enchantments: You cant heal properly for about 10 seconds. But with WoH you still have Thesame healing power as b4 you got rended.

plus, as an HB when gets rended all the time the HB recast can sometimes be a real pain in the ass.

Akaraxle · Jun 25, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

First off. Ouch. I'm a bad monk.

That's not very nice. I happen to take pride in my healing. And you just called all of the good infusers, like Awowa and Tommy bad.

Meh, obviously I implied "isn't necessarily". I edited my post to reflect what I meant, i.e. just because you can infuse well it doesn't mean you're a good monk.

Quote:

Secondly... Sway is pressure, Rao is pressure, THat 3 derv conjure thing is pressure. Sure there's a lot of SF spike, but pressure still exists. Could you explain a bit more about the how pressure isn't possible in HA? Thanks <3

- Pushing for a flagger generates a load of pressure.
- Forcing into the enemy's backline when the time is right generates pressure.
- Splitting characters off to exploit temporary numerical advantages generates pressure.
- Faking out a retreat to lure your opponent in, then pushing hard on them as they're exposed generates pressure.

These, just on the top of my head, are pressure manouvers that aren't possible in HA because there are no flaggers, no lines, no bases (before someone argues about relic runners, hindering them is a scheduled event and they are so crucial that the whole team devotes to them).

Pressuring can also be elementarily represented by a warrior faking adrenaline bursts and switching as soon as he sees Guardian land on his target. Sway, Rao, SF do none of that; they simply get rid of the prots and overload you with damage until you can't take it anymore.

I might have an overly nitpicky interpretation of the word "pressure", but that's how I see it. Sway may be a pressure build by the book, but I see the pressure playstyle as an entirely different thing.

Sierraa · Jun 25, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

c, when you get rended as an HB, you loose 2 enchantments: You cant heal properly for about 10 seconds. But with WoH you still have Thesame healing power as b4 you got rended.

plus, as an HB when gets rended all the time the HB recast can sometimes be a real pain in the ass.

As a WoH infuse I'll get rended of two enchants as well. I generally keep another prot on myself out of bad habit. (Mostly Prot spirit)

And while WoH is a bit more efficient you're still wasting the same amount of energy with channeling gone to catch spikes/heal yourself up. Also, I still think HB is better against most pressure builds, because 1. I still only see 1 rend in most builds, and 2. If the mesmer is rending you on recharge they're probably not going to get a lot of spikes through. So you do have some downtime when HB will not be stripped.

Quote:

Meh, obviously I implied "isn't necessarily". I edited my post to reflect what I meant, i.e. just because you can infuse well it doesn't mean you're a good monk.

I understood what you meant <3 I just wanted to be a bit of an ass. ;P I agree with you though, just because you can infuse well doesn't make you a good monk. There's more than just catching spikes.

Quote:

- Pushing for a flagger generates a load of pressure.
- Forcing into the enemy's backline when the time is right generates pressure.
- Splitting characters off to exploit temporary numerical advantages generates pressure.
- Faking out a retreat to lure your opponent in, then pushing hard on them as they're exposed generates pressure.

You're right, GvG is a lot different than HA. I personally think GvG is harder than HA. HA has a lot more spike builds because it's kill the other team before they kill you. But pressure does exists still in HA, it's rare, but it's there.

Akaraxle · Jun 25, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Burn Victim

You're right, GvG is a lot different than HA. I personally think GvG is harder than HA. HA has a lot more spike builds because it's kill the other team before they kill you. But pressure does exists still in HA, it's rare, but it's there.

As I slowly made my way into high level GvG, I came to realize that it is indeed a step further on HA/Tombs, but for reasons other than simple "elitism".

Focusing on pure 8v8 conflict, setting gimmicks aside, HA and GvG are simply different and none is strictly more difficult: while HA compresses fights into a do-or-die matter, with relatively "short" but very intensive skirmishes, GvG is all about playing in the long run and trying to break your enemy down in a constant fight -- or prepare for VoD if you're unable to do that.
From a monk's perspective, it's about being able to handle intense damage in a short timespan vs being able to keep your team alive and manage your energy for a long time: you could say HA is almost like always being at VoD, although VoD pressure under certain situations is really insane.

The real next stage comes when actual tactics is involved. While HA is nothing other than an 8-man TA, with certain maps having objectives that tend to require the same modii operandi by all teams (interrupt ghost, snare relic runner), GvG adds a whole new strategic dimension to every class. Unless -- like I said before -- you're merely beating each other's brains senseless for 25 minutes, in GvG you are required to possess a certain awareness to understand when it's the right moment to push, pull, whine, rage.
Again, an example on the monking subject: in HA, when your monks are out of energy, you can't do anything about it -- there's no escape. In GvG, if you can read the game correctly, your can alert your team so they can move into a safer position and temporarily "shift gears" to give you time to breathe. You might also be required to move all the way to the other side of the map and withstand a 4v4 skirmish, if the situation calls for it.

Now I've gotten tedious, time to get back on topic.

payne · Jun 25, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Please, don't.

About your mother instinct theory, consider this: the best monks I know have man-boobs, coincidence?

Good luck irl if you know as much about gender as about HA.

lol think you just won this thread...anywho...best PvP monks flick between HA/GvG not one or the other...as some idiots have been saying *cough...*
most players hover over both to not get rusty / get better when GvG isn't happening...the #1 guild does HA - I wonder...does that mean that its monks aren't good enough for GvG? and that it can't play HA?

smile and smite!

Akaraxle · Jun 25, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

most players hover over both to not get rusty / get better when GvG isn't happening...the #1 guild does HA - I wonder...does that mean that its monks aren't good enough for GvG? and that it can't play HA?

People move on from HA to GvG. You know when you feel bored and go do some random arena? HA is the same for us.

Teh Jace · Jun 25, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

And some ppl got tired of gvg (retarted VoD changes, dervish wars, dead aT's, korean lags in montly vs sineptitude) and moved to HA.

I can't get rid of feeling that gvg ppl actually think they are something better than HA'ers.

Akaraxle · Jun 25, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

And some ppl got tired of gvg (retarted VoD changes, dervish wars, dead aT's, korean lags in montly vs sineptitude) and moved to HA.

I can't get rid of feeling that gvg ppl actually think they are something better than HA'ers.

No. Nonono, I can assure you none of the (good) GvG people I know went back to the lamefest that is HA: they quit GW and moved on instead, or even started PvEing.
Quitting GvG because of lame stuff and diving into the very core of lameness -- since 2005 -- would be kinda stupid, if you ask me.

Teh Jace · Jun 25, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

It's better to meet 6 various gimmicks in HA than the same one over and over again in gvg.

But enough of OT.

Killed u man · Jun 25, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

It's better to meet 6 various gimmicks in HA than the same one over and over again in gvg.

But enough of OT.

QFT, gimmicks in GvG are just as bad as they are in HA. The only difference is that GvG gimmicks are kept in tome by various format-specific rules. Such as: Rspike wouldn't work too well (it would still work somewhat tough) because it can't split. (Splitting is the main issue)

IF GvG wasn't so split based (with the NPC's and such), GvG'ers would play just as lame as HA'ers...
HA maps promote balling up, no positining and other non skill-full play. Yes, there are in fact the things that split HA from GvG, but it's not like the HA-community is lame by nature. It's the bad design of the maps that forces us to play lame...

As for holy:

Comming from you, that's rather strange:
You're talking about basic math principles and this and that, and U can't figure out that GoLE saves U 15 energy every 30 seconds, whilst channeling can easily save U 40+ energy per 30 seconds...

That's a free 2 Heal Party's...

Cheap Shot from HA'er? No offence, But I prolly play better than 95% of top 100 GvG... Even IN GvG.

I was purely referring, and aaxelre got it, to the "observant" play in GvG. In GvG, every 5 energy is 5 energy that counts. It's 3.8 seconds that you will have to find to regen for it, and it's 3.8 seconds that your team will have to "create" for you to do so...

I'm merely pointing out that HA really is "Red bars go up", even so for protting... By playing like you do in GvG, you WILL wipe in under 2 minutes. GoLE and "observing" simply doesn't cut it against 3 fire eles spamming SH, Searing Heat and Tenai's Heat.

That's exactly why U guys (dR, when U still played HA at dead hours) collapse in about 30 seconds on cap points. The 2 fire eles from each team (4 total) nuked to much. You, divine, (and I remember this, so U CAN quote me for once) used Heal Party once, and you all died 10 seconds later...

You simply CAN'T hold out against HA spam without channeling. Thus making my first statement, and bringing us back on-topic, valid:

Learn how to channeltank = 95% of HA monking...

Channeling_Monk · Jun 25, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranius

use [channeling], go where there is a lot of foes, spam your skills

That's if you're trying to suck on purpose. If you want to succeed at monk, try using well placed prots, kiting, and moving out of aoe. Observe top guild monks in GvG and how they don't tank damage.

supa tim · Jun 25, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channeling_Monk

If you want to succeed at monk, try using well placed prots, kiting, and moving out of aoe. Observe top guild monks in GvG and how they don't tank damage.

/agree

When needed to kite (even in HA) and done properly, you dont even need to get back that much energy from channeling, since half of the teams pressure is focussed on you (which you are avoiding 90%).

Rydia Merchan · Jun 28, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I just had to comment on how very well this was stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

As I slowly made my way into high level GvG, I came to realize that it is indeed a step further on HA/Tombs, but for reasons other than simple "elitism".

Focusing on pure 8v8 conflict, setting gimmicks aside, HA and GvG are simply different and none is strictly more difficult: while HA compresses fights into a do-or-die matter, with relatively "short" but very intensive skirmishes, GvG is all about playing in the long run and trying to break your enemy down in a constant fight -- or prepare for VoD if you're unable to do that.
From a monk's perspective, it's about being able to handle intense damage in a short timespan vs being able to keep your team alive and manage your energy for a long time: you could say HA is almost like always being at VoD, although VoD pressure under certain situations is really insane.

The real next stage comes when actual tactics is involved. While HA is nothing other than an 8-man TA, with certain maps having objectives that tend to require the same modii operandi by all teams (interrupt ghost, snare relic runner), GvG adds a whole new strategic dimension to every class. Unless -- like I said before -- you're merely beating each other's brains senseless for 25 minutes, in GvG you are required to possess a certain awareness to understand when it's the right moment to push, pull, whine, rage.
Again, an example on the monking subject: in HA, when your monks are out of energy, you can't do anything about it -- there's no escape. In GvG, if you can read the game correctly, your can alert your team so they can move into a safer position and temporarily "shift gears" to give you time to breathe. You might also be required to move all the way to the other side of the map and withstand a 4v4 skirmish, if the situation calls for it.

Now I've gotten tedious, time to get back on topic.

Kyle S · Jun 29, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Prot = Watch melee targets ect and pre prot spikes rc conditions ect.. basicly just watching where there melee go the entire game.