Curse

Killed u man · Jul 11, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Over the past few days, whenever I seem to take a Pug Monk, he/She seems to fail terribly.

Now, pugs have already failed. There is a reason they have to pug -They simply don't have many "skilled" friends who can form a decent team-, so I usually don't expect alot from my Monks.

BUT, when U run into the battle field, and within the first 10 seconds Patient Spirit got diverted, well, then U effing know something is wrong.

(In HA terms)
Face it, a good Monks is made, and broken, by how well he stands up against a Mesmer. Any retard and his mom can Infuse, tab a button as fast as U can, or can prot in HA. Prot in HA? It's quite simple: watch the battlefield, and follow the Warrior. In GvG, Warriors lure fake prots, and stuff, but in HA, protting is a joke. (And yet people fail terribly at it. EVERY Monks nowadays red-bar prots -huray)

Now, WHY is it, that a Monk nowadays always cries about Channeling bring Stripped? Enchant removals have ALWAYS been around. Yet, a year orso ago, my Monks didn't cry every 10 seconds they didn't have any Energy, or that Channeling got stripped. Did the mesmers improve to an extend that were U can write books on how skilled they are?
-> Observe HoH, watch every mesmer fail to first PD Song, and then a Ghostly. Mesmers still putting shame on E/P, and putting Diversion on a Monk at 2:05 that is a 1% HP and about to die anyways. -And rezz-
No, that can't be it. Then WHY are Monks failing so hard against every Mesmer we encounter? I tell my team to interrupt Diversion. We do so. I tell them to interrupt Shame. We do so.
We spike once, an during that spike, our Monk got spirit Bond diverted...

Ok, enough on HOW bad Monks actually are these days. I just found out, WHY exactly they have become such a joke to, let's say, Monks 2 years ago.

[Hex Breaker]

The idiot-proof, I fail as a Monk, I'm so bad, I can't even watch a mesmer for a 2 second cast emote skill, that turns HA-red-bar-protting into HA-cover-up-your-screen-with-paper-whilst-keeping-the-red-bar-vissible-protting.

Monks with hexbreaker just throw whatever was left of skill/battlefield awareness a Monk needed to have to keep his team alive out of the window.
And now I see why my Monks failed so bad... They simply didn't have Hex Breaker, and thus [diversion] was something completely new to them.

This is, imo, something that needs to change. The fact that Monks CAN infact get away with red-barring all the time, shows how bad/OP it really is.
Blaming Hex Breaker for this clearly isn't justified, as it has always been around.

The real culprit (Spelled it right?) here, is OP gimmick builds that allow too much "freebies" on Monk bars. The real victim of this movement towards hexbreaker-monking is balanced teams. They simply don't have the utility/available skills slots to enable their Monks to have Hex Breaker, putting them at an disadvantage from the beginning.

Build such as Ritspike, Rspike, A/D spikes allow for 20+ utility skills to be used, and thus allow Hex Breaker on the Monks, and also alot of other imba crap, tripple foes rspike anyone?

Build, up till now, have never been nerfed for the utility they have, and Hex Breaker really is the tip of the iceberg, but it's time Anet starts focusing on HA. If U take a look at build such as, once again, Ritspike, Rspike and A/Spikes, aswell as hexway: These builds have 2x, 3x the snaring power any regular team has. HOW can they compete with that? -They simpy can't, and the only reason why balanced still wins HoH, is because one team decided to gank Blue-

With the Major skill update comming -and I kept this out of my wishlist thread- I really hope, for once, Anet/Izzy has taken a look at the current meta in HA, and I hope most of them get either nerfed into a oblivion (builds that deserve it) or tomed down to an extend they can't have 6 bars of pure utility in HoH...

Borat X · Jul 11, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Killed u man - U monk for my team before, and I rage at U because U complain that a mesmer was on U. I told U to prevail yourself, but U said you did not have enough energy. I rage back at U and told U to learn how to channel tank, but U end up raging the group and U said that the team fail.

Point is this: If U still play HA and have enough time to complain about crappy HA monk! GL to U!

Horace The Great · Jul 11, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Warriors also fake spikes in HA, at least I try that.

First people didn't use rend and gaze, more shatter and drain.

Builds became more aggressive.

People used 3 monks allot in old days.

People used allot less energy heavy monk bars on the healer.

Gift3d · Jul 11, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

If U r such a pro all-knowing monk, then U monk for UR own goddamn teams. That or whisper one of UR pompous elitist friends U know to come monk for U, instead of U coming in here to bitch and whine about pug monks' sub-par standards for UR 1337ness.

Killed u man · Jul 11, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I'm actually a pretty good monk. I've never Monked for this "Borat X" guy before. Last time since I monked was god knows how long ago.

Please no thread trolling by the way... When srs ppl make srs thread, stay out

EDIT: PLEASE read second part of the post, BEFORE you post.

Borat X · Jul 11, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'm actually a pretty good monk. I've never Monked for this "Borat X" guy before. Last time since I monked was god knows how long ago.

Please no thread trolling by the way... When srs ppl make srs thread, stay out

.

U claim that U are a good monk, yet you also claim that U you dont recall when was the last time U monk.

At the same time, if U dont remember when was the last time U monk, how can U make a claim that U never monk for me?

U monk for me, and from that day after I corrected U, U never monked again.

U need to learn how to respect other players, and U can be like me, how I corrected U on how to play monk.

U refuse to accept,because U think U are always right, and blame others.

This thread is just a cry-more thread. How are U serious when you state the following with your current skill level as a monk:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Any retard and his mom can Infuse, tab a button as fast as U can, or can prot in HA. Prot in HA? It's quite simple: watch the battlefield, and follow the Warrior. In GvG, Warriors lure fake prots, and stuff, but in HA, protting is a joke. (And yet people fail terribly at it. EVERY Monks nowadays red-bar prots -huray)

moko · Jul 11, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

you guys don't want to stop it, do you?

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jul 11, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Offtopic: It's really annoying trying to read posts from two idiots flaming about how "he's a bad monk", "no he's a worse monk" etc when both of them replace the word "you" with "u" and then capatalise it to "U". Basically it ends up with every sentence having this massive emphasis on the word YOU. "YOU are a bad monk, YOU f*cking fail, YOU should uninstall" It really hurts my head...

Ontopic: I agree with "U" (see what I did there =P) the OP, monks in HA these days are terrible, personally I wouldn't attribute this to any one individual thing but a combination. Generally alot of people will have swayed alot of their fame say playing NRT to r9 and then thinking they are pro monk in balanced. There's also the very aggressive, high pressure meta in HA, which I can imagine is quite hard to monk against, even high level monks from GvG don't seem to be able to just go in and own shit with "1337 hax0r skillz", although they will adapt very quickly, but if you haven't got that monking experience from high level GvG then it's even harder. Then there's also the dependence on channeling, which you did mention, basically monks are used to having their infinite energy from channel tanking and then when it's stripped they're not used to actually having to manage their energy and being careful with skill usage and so start QQ pretty much instantly. One of the other things I think should be mentioned though is the style of the HA maps, I mean, they're very small and generally in HA there is alot of AOE damage, so sometimes the rest of the team has to help the monks by spreading out and reducing damage, which seems to be alot harder for some people than it really is. I've seen r11+ teams with what would be considered very good HA monks, collapse in under a minute, purely because 4 people are getting hit with a single rodgorts at any one time.

Killed u man · Jul 11, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

""

Someone who actually agrees?

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel...

But that's why I proposed an update... Promote ACTIVE monking again. No more Hex breaker on Monks. No more 1000 savage + Dshots preventing the Monks from harm. No more 1000 wards that snare enemy Warriors.

Just a regular team build a reasonable ammount of support for the Monks. And you saw what happened in the PvE section, you just got to keep ensisting. (Even tough PvE is the main focuse of Anet atm, I'm still getting my hopes up for this update...)

BLOODGOAT · Jul 11, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

All good monks stopped playing. Therefore, only bad monks continue to exist. Either they get better or you start monking and be better than them.

LifesRestorer · Jul 12, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Killed U Man (the real borat): I completely agree with you. Alot of gimmicks these days have the power to compress big spike damage and lots of healing/prot into the same skillbar, allowing for a massive line of defensive characters being able to pull off big spike damage that is able to kill an opponent. Not only does this make for an extremely boring and at times frustrating match but it makes the defensive team's players lazy due to the extremely large margin for error.

Borat X (fake borat): I don't know who you are but you seem to have come out of nowhere to troll these forums for no reason. Stop turning this into a personal thread with dumb attacks at the OP. It's an important issue so stop trying to derail it

Gift3d: You pose a stupid argument. If it's HIS team then he obviously has to call it, therefore he needs to either be on frontline or an offensive midline position such as a fire ele. If he goes to monk then he is unable to do that. The point is, you can only play one position of eight, all with important roles within the build.
If I was able to play more than one position in a build at the same time I would probably play every role out there other than mes and ranger due to the fact that I know that I am better than 90% of the pugs out there that i could ever pick up.

Solving the issue: IV needs a hit. Currently it allows a character to spec 12/12 in healing and utility attributes and still gives it the power to do 90 spike damage in the space of 1 second. Move it to Death, Blood or Curses.

Rspike Damage: We have all known that this has been an issue for too long. The damage of rspike is simply insane. there are many ways to stop this. Nerf energy cost, cast time or recharge of forked. Nerf damage of glass arrows or brutal weapon. Make brutal not stack with preps. Make damage buffs only raise the damage up to a certain level when stacked.

Make more reliance on the effects of spawning power: For too long ritualists have been able to completely ignore their primary attribute and go 12/12 into channeling/restoration due to spawning power being complete and utter shit. I'm not exactly sure how to do this... for a start weapon spells i guess, making the durations shorter on pretty much all of them and making spawning power increase the durations by a higher percentage. Maybe decrease the damage dealt by channeling spells accross the board and make spawning add armour penetration or something to channeling spells, but I don't really know...

Ariena Najea · Jul 12, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

I started doing HA about 6 months or so ago, and when I first started (as Monk) I was absolutely horrible

I slowly improved until I got the chance to monk for a very skilled guild Rspike group whose other two monks helped me to become a real good RC. I went from Rank 0 to Rank 1 that day, and was added to the guild's monk PUG list for future games if they needed anyone.

The lesson learned? If you except anything from predominantly new-to-PvP players, try teaching them instead of yelling when they do it wrong. Find a few sincere low/non-ranked monks before you want to start in HA, and do the following:
1) Explain why the bar you're giving them is as-is, and why/when to use each skill
2) Explain their role in the overall group
3) Do a guild scrim or something beforehand to let them get the feel for it
This whole process will probably take about 5 minutes, but given that groups with monks who don't know what they're doing typically fail in the underworld, causing most of a PUG to disband, you're even saving time. For future attempts at Halls, add those monks to your friend list.

Being nice and helpful gets you somewhere ^^

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 12, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

since moko deleted my earlier trolling brilliance :P BLOODGOAT has it correct good monks are either gone, only play with their respective guilds, or are off GvG'ing.

and moko [patient spirit] is like my crack

toastgodsupreme · Jul 12, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

You kind of went off point from your main question, but I'm still answering a part of your post.

To be honest... you've pretty much described how GW2 is going to be per ANET's claims.

You want "balanced". You want the big three... warrior, monk, ele. But you see all these other builds coming in. Builds, which when grouped together with the same builds, lend themselves to really kick ass.

But you want "balanced".

Funny thing is... despite Izzy's best nerf attempts, "balanced" isn't what ANET wants. Look how they've spoken about GW2. How each class will be self sufficient to a point. That's exactly what these other teams are doing. They're bringing just the right skills to kill, and then have room for utility skills for other situations should they arise.

Maybe it's time to adapt to the game, instead of having the game dumb down for you.

Stupid Shizno · Jul 12, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

how does a N/Rt use patient spirit? oO i made a funny joke....

ok maybe not that funny

Killed u man · Jul 12, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

It's a retorical question, the thread title.

I'm asking myself: How terrible has HA become, that the Monks, the backbone of ANY build in GW -Monks or ANY kind of Healer- can pretty much go autopilot...

I'm ranting the fact that for too long, high utility builds with amazing spiking power and defence went under the radar of Anet, with Rspike being the best example. (YES, Ritspike aswell, but face it you rspike fanboi's, Rspike atm is by far the most OP build in HA)

Skills such as Searing Flames still exist after 1.5+ years of NF. Skills such as SF should be nerfed into oblivion about 1 week after release.

What I'm suggesting is that we bring the "monking" back to the Monks. This doesn't have to be by nerfing individual skills, but rather to build in overal.

Vital Weapon nearly gets to see no use, so I wouldn't like to see it nerfed, BUT the fact that ritspike AND rspike both have Monks with 800 HP makes them unspikable. This combined with the fact they have massive holding makes them pretty much god-mode...

Div · Jul 12, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Most of the good players quit the game. Another good portion don't HA because they're either sick of it or don't like it. Which leaves very little options for HA monks.

Sister Of Oblivion · Jul 12, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I thought only sway-tards pugged nowadays? *hint hint*

Qual · Jul 13, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Craig, go back to the cave you came from

deluxe · Jul 13, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Gee, people actually still play HA eh?