Curse

Sun Fired Blank · Jul 14, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

[Wail of Doom], [Defile Defenses], [Rip Enchantment], [Plague Sending], [Foul Feast], [Signet of Midnight], [Signet of Humility], [Mantra of Inscriptions], [Soul Bind], [Defile Flesh], [Barbs], [Enraged Lunge], [Otyugh's Cry], [Golden Fox Strike], [Wild Strike], [Shattering Assault], [Wounding Strike], [Rampage As One], [Magebane Shot], [Strength of Honor], [Spotless Mind], [Barbed Spear], [Rigor Mortis], [Vigorous Spirit], [Grasping Earth], [Faintheartedness], [Dark Aura], [Augury of Death], [Frustration], [Ebon Dust Aura], [Rending Touch], [Escape].

1. Nerf these skills. Seriously. Just do it.
2. You don't have to make something unusable when you nerf it (except for Rampage as One, it's an exceptionally dumb skill). Minor tweaks are okay.
3. Functionality changes may be prudent in some cases.
4. Examples: reduce damage / increase recharge for [Enraged Lunge], increase recharge for [Vigorous Spirit], reduce duration / increase recharge for [Soul Bind], [Defile Flesh], [Barbs], increase activation for [Frustration].

[Atrophy], [Disrupting Shot], [Shielding Hands]

1. Improve these skills. Seriously. Just do it. They deserve it before just about everything else.
2. You don't have to make something ridiculous when you improve it (except for Shielding Hands, it's an exceptionally awesome skill). Minor tweaks are okay.
Examples: increase duration / reduce recharge for [Atrophy], reduce recharge / increase damage for [Disrupting Shot], increase damage reduction / reduce recharge for [Shielding Hands].

[Wild Blow]

1. Why does a thumper, dervish or sin use this better and more than a warrior? (If I want stance removal on my warrior, I spec wild throw and spear people, even if I don't actually use a spear for anything other than adrenaline building. It destroys Melandru's Resilience and Disciplined Stance.)
2. Adjust functionality. Seriously. Just do it.

Everything Else:

1. The dartboard improvements are not useful. I enjoy having new options to pick from every so often, but seriously, please pick options that are fairly interesting but mostly unusable for various reasons, then either change their functionality or tweak them to useability.
2. Examples: [Shell Shock], [Coward!], [Barbed Arrows], [Pin Down], [Sprint], [Lion's Comfort], [Mokele Smash].

Here are ten considerations for you to remember while you're doing this:

1. Protection prayers enchantments and stances should not be removed for almost zero cost, easily ignored, or severely penalized.
2. Condition or hex spot removals should not be completely inadequate versus large hex or condition stacks that are infinitely reusable.
3. Conditions or hexes should not be removed for almost zero cost or used to severely punish your team.
4. Disable skills should not be overly reusable, should require a significant investment from the user, and should not be overly ridiculous in either duration or duration versus recharge.
5. Skills should function by themselves. Any skill that can influence multiple skills or greatly compress / augment damage output is questionable at best and generally detrimental.
6. Skills and especially most hexes should not have a duration significantly greater than their recharge.
7. Many hexes are badly designed; they have a ridiculous function or a stupid recharge versus duration, and they should be fixed to promote active play and meaningful responses.
8. Improving single target options to ridiculous levels to make them usable for GvG makes them broken in arena formats.
9. Improving single target options to ridiculous levels to make them usable for GvG makes them broken in arena formats.
10. Improving single target options to ridiculous levels to make them usable for GvG makes them broken in arena formats.

One last note about your upcoming update that I hear also changes the functionality of many unused elites; please don't. Just fix this nonsense.

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 14, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

Because how dare skills have counters!

I disagree with everything except [signet of midnight]. Thats one elite id like to see made go away. Forever.

this ^ but ws needs to be nerfed

moriz · Jul 14, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

i think the only thing we really need to look at, is the interaction between fast casting and non-mesmer spells/signets.

Tyla · Jul 14, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I agree with some of these.

Signet of Midnight is extremely powerful in a 4 versus 4 setting, especially when you're got Plague Sending backing it up. Mantra should just die in my opinion.

I believe Ebon Dust Aura needs a small tweak too. I can literally keep at least 3 people blind constantly on a Dervish / Paragon. Yes, I actually run them. Barbed Spear just needs adrenaline upped.

Wounding Strike definately needs a hit. 5 recharge, fix condition stack.

Shattering Assault is just bugged. (Deals +damage instead of damage listed, which isn't additional)

Humsig higher recharge.

Soul Bind, just change it's recharge to 10 in my opinion.

Foul Feast needs it's energy gain nerfed. It just eats conditions and gives you energy back.

kvndoom · Jul 14, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

[Foul Feast] and/or [Wail of Doom] should get hit. Those two skills together are just ridiculous. Personally I'd choose FF because it completely nullifies condition pressure and gives energy to boot. Energy for the obligatory [Plague Sending] of course. FF now is good enough to be an elite. It's [draw conditions] + energy management in the same skill. Revert it to what it was pre-buff; the game never needed this skill.

Most of your suggestions are for skills that don't even see play, much less need a nerf. And [Barbed Spear] just made me laugh. Seriously.

EDIT: Oh hell, forgot [plague sending] is pretty much free now. 1 energy LOL. That makes it even worse.

Celab · Jul 14, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

TA forum, skills relating to imba in TA. Ill bold my comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

[Wail of Doom]- look at kd's, the make it so you literally can't do anything. this is realtivly tame1 mage hunter + nec with this with vent can keep a monk nearly perma useless
[Defile Defenses]- niche skill, not amazing damage. kinda hard to get a target for it.Monks with block stances get punished for 1 hit and then target swap
[Rip Enchantment]- good solid enchant removal, not oped at all, bleeding sucksagree
[Plague Sending]- not really, only in combo with foul feastSoM with this can blind warrior again if removed
[Foul Feast]-ya, nerf the health/energy gainslightly
[Signet of Midnight]- already nerfed with mantra nerfNerf to mantra doesn't kill this completely in TA
[Signet of Humility]- same as aboveagain, magehunter
[Mantra of Inscriptions]- we just nerfed thisagree
[Soul Bind]- um no? not very good at all4 people in TA? Punish monk for healing any?
[Defile Flesh]- this skill is never usedSame
[Barbs]- wtf gave you that idea?Me/N with two R/W
[Enraged Lunge]- huh? is this even about pvp? beastmastery sucksNerfed, did do 100+ every 5 secs unblockable. 2 R/P with this was allot of pressure in TA. However new nerf allows a near KD lock with R/W
[Otyugh's Cry]- may i suggest a different medication for you?Same as above
[Golden Fox Strike]- nope, fairly balanced
[Wild Strike]-same as above
[Shattering Assault]- make it just do +30 instead of 40 armour ignoringAgree
[Wounding Strike]- make deep wound on top, 5 sec rechargeAgree
[Rampage As One]- ya, nerf itAgree
[Magebane Shot]- not even as good as Dshot Not in TA
[Strength of Honor]-make it make you do holy damage so it dosnt stack with conjures (weapons dealing holy dont ignore armour)Agree
[Spotless Mind]- nope, it's fineAgree
[Barbed Spear]- huh?R/P, apply barbed = -7 on all
[Rigor Mortis]- it's fine? Owned monk in TA
[Vigorous Spirit]- get owned by a wammo lately? Good cover for TA with rip being favored recently
[Grasping Earth]-pbaoe snare? not great With unblockable R/, you need this to kite more.
[Faintheartedness]- average skill Agree but disagree with "Average"
[Dark Aura]-not really Age
[Augury of Death]- ya, but idk how to nerf it. longer recharge maybe? disable spells? Agree
[Frustration]- idk, small one maybe Havn't played against it in TA yet
[Ebon Dust Aura]-no, not a great skill at allconstant covered blind on warrior and ranger is annoying
[Rending Touch]- longer recharge? agree
[Escape]- end on attack maybe?agree

Did you think op was talking about something else?

Alex the Great · Jul 14, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celab

Did you think op was talking about something else?

no, but I don;t belive that even in the TA forum all nerfs should be TA-centric.

no one really plays it anyways.

looking back, i was away for 2 weeks on vactation, so i missed a few updates. I think i spoted 2 errors in my own comments after reading the new updates, but i stand by most of what i said

Killed u man · Jul 14, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Didn't read initire original post, there was too much QQ'ing in there, BUT EVERY skill he mentioned is either getting abused in a gimmick, or is simply to OP for the skill needed to run it/the bar.

All I see in this thread, besides 1 person (not me), is people trying to defend their lame gimmicks.

If you fail to see how SoM IS OP, aswell as barbed spear (In conjunction with Apply Poison) and some other crap, you shouldn't post on these forums, acting as if you know game-balance...

Too bad the majority of these forums is like that. Let's all join the hate-we-want-everything-nerfed-besides-our-gimmick band wagon... (Referring to my Rspike thread, go check them rspike fanboys out in there)

I'm merely saying to the OP: "Just ignore/flame the retards posting here. They have NO clue what they are talking about. For them, skill such as Searing Flames, and SoM are completely balanced. I mean, you can INTERRUPT them, right?"

the kurzick eater · Jul 14, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

This is Guild Wars. Everything has a weakness and a counter. Oddly enough, by saying 'seriously' a lot, i don't think anyone takes you seriously.

Seriously. Learn to play. Just do it.

i agree that he has some bad errors in his skills that need to be fixed. but honestly, a 2 smite monk team, a woh, and a rao getting 50 consecs in TA last night...wow GL countering that bullcrap. what are you going to do? go all anti caster? but then you have no damage, and your shut down by the rao with 500 interrupts.

I seriously want to see the smiter leave the common team.. and soon. it has been long enough that TA has become this defensive gameplay, and each round is taking 10 minutes because all of the healing and defense.

mostly all balanced teams are from euro/international servers, and i have only seen several guilds attempt to run new material (to no avail.)

my official list would have to be::

-sig of midnight (increase recharge to 30 sec)

-WoD (increase recharge to 15 sec)

-foul feast (increase recharge to 8 sec)

-plague sending (increase sac. to 17%)

-backbreaker (make attributes invested determine KD time (1...9=2sec 9=3sec, 13=4sec or w/e)

-mokele smash or however the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO its spelled(more adrenaline gain, 15 sec recharge.

-lower casting time for various ele spells (idk i'd like to see eles take a higher role in todays TA.)

-smiters boon (ends after the next X spells, longer recharge)

-melandrus resilience (changed to expertise line for PvP only)

- reversal of damage (increase recharge to 7 seconds)

-rampage as one (increase recharge and lessen attack/run speeds, its getting EXTREMELY lame.)

-disrupting lunge (increase recharge to 20 seconds, increase energy cost to 10)

thats all i can think of off the top of my head, i might update later...

moko · Jul 14, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

my go at it without looking at the other posts:

agree with Wail, it's a dumb elite. Defile Defenses is fine, nothing wrong with it. if wail was gone it's a good thing to control dumb block webs. rip too is fine, but i wouldn't mind a slightly higher recharge on it. FF and plague sending need to die .. somehow. soulbind uh..care? nothing too OP with it. defile flesh..are you kidding? barbs? rofl, barbs has always been a part of r/x gimmicks, they don't carry many hexes, it's not like it will be hard to take care of~~

SoM is dumb too, it's too powerful, if FF would be nerfed, SoM needs nerfing too. it's kinda like bsurge at 5e..just a bit worse. mantra is ok now, humsig has always been strong and can stay like that.

enraged would be fine .. if they killed expertise, and all the r/x madness. otyughs..ROFL. it's good, not op, nothing. and yeah, why was barbed buffed again..oo

the sa combo needs something -- maybe so golden fox can't be blocked with enchant, and wild can't be blocked without. or the other way around -- but then all "wild" need to be reworked and all "golden" too, but meh, who cares about that. :P sa needs..way less damage. enchant removal is powerful as it is, maybe 20 damage each strike, that's 40 and enchants gone, good enough.

rao..yeah. connected to the expertise r/x madness. nothing to say.

wounding needs a nerf in all formats.

magebane is ok IMO. magehunter is the only thing that needs to die, magebane (along with Defile) would keep the blocks under control.

strength of honor doesn't need any future nerfs, it shouldn't work on pets, though. so r/p at least get's no benefit. spotless mind and soul are dumb, can be really powerful, can be really crap. i say up the recharge and shorten the duration.

rigor..no. bad joke, really.

vig spirit? i know it can be decent vs pressure, but really. eventually, no WoH has energy for vig spirit, and HC is dead.

grasping? WOW, this must be a terrible joke now. let's nerf frozen burst and all other snares too while we're at it..NOT.

faint? no, not really, one of the last few decent hexes left, and it's SO easy to control. dark aura, uh, dunno, don't care. gimmicks fail anyways. augury? nah, it's pretty dead anyways.

frustration .. good joke.

eda should only be able to keep up half the time.

rend touch .. uh, expertise. escape, ye, dumb, end if you hit, but nerf expertise mainly.

i'm disappointed though, you forgot magehunters.

btw, most smite skills are relatively fine for TA .. but they need tweaking for other formats. i won't mind seeing smaller aoe and a slightly weakened smiters boon.

also, stop trolling this. most of you don't have a clue so yeah..stop trolling PvP sections.

if i see anymore "bring counters", "lolz u r an idiot" or something .. play TA, get a clue about the game, yeah. now go away.

and it's a warning to ALL of you whose posts i deleted..do you realise there's seperated PvP/PvE skills now? maybe we can make use of it without ruining your PvE fun.

I don't mind adapting to Metas, I've gone through many and withstood all fine, but this one is KILLING Team Arenas, these overpowered skills create TOO MANY GIMMICKS -- it is NOT possible to counter _every single of them_. usually, in other metas where a build is dominating, after a month people adapt, the build dies. it's NOT the case here. also the balanced in this meta is pathetic. it's actually hardly balanced, weak, dumb to play ..

i have also ABUSED MANY of these skills and know for myself how overpowered they are in the right hands and builds, i've also beaten and lost to them, so really .. no more pointless posts!

EDIT:

i always loved shielding hands (after the SoA nerf, before Guardian was buffed) but now it's by far outclassed..soft prots dominate in TA, and i think we need a good one again.

i personally enjoy barbed arrows -- but FF kills it. it's not really different to apply anymore, nobody abuses the armor loss, etc.

coward is good, sprint is not suited for TA. lions comfort..well, self heals in TA. and pin down is good too, just not in this meta.

OH, i forgot patient. it's dumb, too good.

oh and to put something short

DO NOT PUNISH SKILLED PLAY (protection line)

Axel Zinfandel · Jul 14, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

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JustDoItJustDoItJustDoItJustDoItJustDoItJustDoItJu stDoItJustDoItJustDoItJustDoIt

12 characters

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 14, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

epic snippet of truth

quoted for epic truth not much else to say

Celab · Jul 14, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

quoted for epic truth not much else to say

Leave my [magehunters smash] alone you two!
Although I can't think of a good rework for it, possibly -40 al for 8..4..2 seconds or something similar?

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 14, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

[Wail of Doom] recharge nerf, [Defile Defenses] excellent skill, [Rip Enchantment] recharge nerf, [Plague Sending] recharge nerf or increase life sac, [Foul Feast] i think this can stay as it is if PS gets hit, [Signet of Midnight] destroy this skill, [Signet of Humility] interrupt it, [Mantra of Inscriptions]~ , [Soul Bind] for 10e it's not too op, [Defile Flesh] nerf this why?, [Barbs] only useful with degenerate r/p etc. builds, nerf them instead of barbs, [Enraged Lunge] decrease damage significantly, [Otyugh's Cry] lol, [Golden Fox Strike] keep, [Wild Strike], keep [Shattering Assault] keep, [Wounding Strike] recharge nerf, [Rampage As One] meh, [Magebane Shot] recharge nerf, [Strength of Honor] ~, [Spotless Mind] ~, [Barbed Spear] fine, [Rigor Mortis] fine, [Vigorous Spirit] fine, [Grasping Earth] fine, [Faintheartedness] fine, [Dark Aura] fine, [Augury of Death] fine, [Frustration] fine, [Ebon Dust Aura] fine, [Rending Touch] fine, problem lies with R/D, [Escape] ends on hit.

Sun Fired Blank · Jul 14, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Defenses is fine, nothing wrong with it. if wail was gone it's a good thing to control dumb block webs. rip too is fine, but i wouldn't mind a slightly higher recharge on it.

The problem is that you don't have any block webs in the meta. You have Guardian and you have stances. Every so often, you encounter [Critical Defenses] but for the most part I find that smite groups die faster to the monk gank rather than persistent linebacking, and the Defile isn't relevant for that matchup. For this reason, [Defile Defenses] only serves to be a relatively dire cover hex; it operates as a cover and fairly serious block punishment you don't often fight using spot removal. The only reason it vanishes is the strength of everything else on the bar; as broken as it may be, the rest of the bar is nearly as broken. I'm not averse to a cover hex that is outright superior to [Parasitic Bond] except for persistence; in the arenas though, even if it expires due to block clause, the very limited persistence is often enough to serve as a cover. It should receive a very minor tap to damage (70-80% damage) or a very minor tap to recharge (+3 seconds). Defile's a truly spectacular option; very slightly ridiciulous, a minor tap would certainly not hurt.

To be frank I only want +2 recharge or a revert (health cost and no bleeding) for [Rip Enchantment].

Quote:

[Foul Feast] i think this can stay as it is if PS gets hit

Absolutely not. You can simply tank most conditions on the necro; the only real exception is Daze. Crippled / Deep Wound are fairly dangerous also but if you're constantly feasting both, you tank them anyways because you're entire team, including you, is likely to be under them if you don't, so you might as well be the only one under both.

Quote:

soulbind uh..care? nothing too OP with it. defile flesh..are you kidding? barbs? rofl, barbs has always been a part of r/x gimmicks, they don't carry many hexes, it's not like it will be hard to take care of

Soul Bind's actually very powerful, the updated packhunter variants are quite potent for it, and Defile is very powerful also; several hexways are very functional using it. My greatest concern is versus uptime to duration hexes that are very hard to fight if they end up covered -- that is, hexes that are not active use -- and that have no useful constraint for spam outside of a universal Magebane Shot. Almost certainly these hexes qualify in that respect. For Barbs: the R/X physical hex nonsense used to be fairly strong, in a proper meta you're likely to encounter more of it, and it's ridiculously unfun to play against. The general modus operandi of destroy veil, use Mantra of Resolve or Pious Concentration, spam hexes on 40/40, smother them far under the reach of Holy Veil / Remove Hex, train the target, is very effective. Spot removal does not always work even if you're fast, and the target often drops in health fast enough that [Signet of Lost Souls] provides back enough energy to sustain Mantra. I ran a fairly updated version to 20ish a month or so back, they remain okay even in this dumb meta. It's a very basic instrument for stomping average groups in quick times, and I desire for everything that can enable this nonsense out of the meta.

Quote:

otyughs..ROFL. it's good, not op

The problem is that Otyugh's directly enables various pet-related nonsense to be unblockable pet-related nonsense. You're right: Otyugh's alone is okay. Otyugh's and the rest of bar is lame. The problem is that nothing else deserves a nerf. [Feral Aggression] is okay. [Heket's Rampage], [Bestial Fury] and [Tiger's Fury] are okay. Spears on rangers are mostly okay. If you nerf [Enraged Lunge] and [Rampage as One], you have fairly significant options like [Ferocious Strike] and [Strike as One].

After [Enraged Lunge] and [Rampage as One], [Otyugh's Cry] is the strongest option to absolutely nerf the packhunter nonsense in TA, even if it's obviously okay by itself.

Quote:

the sa combo needs something -- maybe so golden fox can't be blocked with enchant, and wild can't be blocked without. or the other way around -- but then all "wild" need to be reworked and all "golden" too, but meh, who cares about that. :P sa needs..way less damage. enchant removal is powerful as it is, maybe 20 damage each strike, that's 40 and enchants gone, good enough.

The combo itself is broken. The most obvious and simple part-one fix: + damage rather than base damage as mentioned earlier on the [Shattering Assault], +5...17...20.

Quote:

magebane is ok IMO.

It's not very high on my list of nonsense, but I very much think the recharge clause is ridiculous, and the notion of such reiterable disruption is not very interesting for me. The block circumvention alone is enough to place it firmly as elite, and there is not very much block in the meta, the vast majority of block is only 50% (read: Guardian). One diligent frontliner quite efficiently paces Guardian use, and if you encounter any form of reiterable enchantment removal your Guardian is fairly shit. You can always Magebane Guardian anyways; you always do that after fundamental hex control, and the monk honestly can't stop you from doing it. I'd very quickly take an unblockable 5s recharge int over a +damage 5s recharge int, and there are plenty of non-elite options ([Sloth Hunter's Shot], [Debilitating Shot], [Screaming Shot]) to justify that decision.

I frankly would rather have [Magehunter's Smash] than [Magebane Shot]; in my experience the one adrenal strike is fairly significant versus [Devastating Hammer]. If everyone didn't have various enchant nonsense and the weakness actually stuck ([Foul Feast]), I think more people would use DH over Magehunter's in a heartbeat.

Quote:

rigor..no. bad joke, really.

Mostly in line with the hexspam physical nonsense. Deserves a minor tap like the rest of the nonsense.

Quote:

vig spirit? i know it can be decent vs pressure, but really. eventually, no WoH has energy for vig spirit, and HC is dead.

If you don't have some means (e.g. [Rip Enchantment]) to actively deny the use of it, Vigorous Spirit is extremely functional on WoH. It definitely could use a +2 to +4 second recharge nerf.

Quote:

grasping? WOW, this must be a terrible joke now. let's nerf frozen burst and all other snares too while we're at it..NOT.

Grasping Earth is hardly comparable to Frozen Burst in any form. Yes, they're both AoE snares but every similarity ends there. Grasping Earth is 100% uptime at only Earth Magic: 5. Grasping Earth is 5 energy. Grasping Earth is therefore the sort of hex you can stick on anyone without any real investment for the sole purpose of disrupting the other team's movement. It's a freaking amazing hex, it's a personal favorite of mine on warrior and necro, and it's quite frankly ridiculous; it absolutely deserves a very minor tap on duration (80%ish) and / or the recharge (+3 seconds).

Quote:

faint? no, not really, one of the last few decent hexes left, and it's SO easy to control.

Faintheartedness rivals Grasping Earth for the amazing hex title. It deserves the same treatment. Very minor tap on duration and / or maybe recharge.

Quote:

dark aura, uh, dunno, don't care. gimmicks fail anyways.

No respectable use has ever come of this particular option. Destroy it before someone figures out another [Shadow Walk] -> [Dark Aura].

Quote:

augury? nah, it's pretty dead anyways.

No respectable use has ever come of this particular option because you can't fix a hex that reads: health > 50%, DEEP WOUND. Bury it for shit mechanics.

Quote:

frustration .. good joke.

Frustration is mostly a very lame cover hex for Migraine. It should have 2s activation. It's a very minor tweak and ultimately very negligible, but I don't think a hex on par with Migraine should be nearly undisruptable.

Quote:

strength of honor doesn't need any future nerfs, it shouldn't work on pets, though.

It should be influenced by armor, and it shouldn't stack with Conjures.

Quote:

eda should only be able to keep up half the time.

I'd prefer a longer activation (1s) and reduced blind (70-80% of present) to make it disruptable and harder to maintain blind coverage. The uptime is okay in my opinion. This, of course, demands the adrenal revert on barbed spear.

Quote:

coward is good, sprint is not suited for TA. lions comfort..well, self heals in TA. and pin down is good too, just not in this meta.

These were mostly examples of generally decent buffs from the dartboard; you're right, most of them are not suitable for TA, but I didn't intend for any of them to be used as TA examples. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Of everything I listed, the vast majority of the "nerfs" deserved are very minor; positive or zero impact for other formats, very slight balancing for TA.

If you honestly had to boil it down to a handful of things, the only skills that should be drastically nerfed are: [Wail of Doom], [Foul Feast], [Rampage as One], [Signet of Midnight], [Shattering Assault], [Wounding Strike], [Enraged Lunge]. We are not ever going to get an expertise nerf, which is unfortunate but a simple fact.

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 14, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

lol, you can just as easily tank conditions with draw.

half the skills you mentioned don't need to be touched, stop complaining, play better etc.

edit: EDA: enchant removal says hi.

bungusmaximus · Jul 14, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Meh if I compare EDA crap and SoM to things like blinding surge/flash I see a really big difference. Blinding from surge/flash only lasts a short time and can be used to ruin spikes, EdA and SoM however can GOREDENGINE keep people perma-blind, which is very demotivating and annoying. EdA needs a 1 sec cast imho, so it will become riskier to bring it. SoM needs shorter duration.

But it's all related, when you nerf blinding skills, you HAVE to nerf RaO into the ground too, else the pressure will be too much to take. I can miss RaO like toothache so to hell with it

.

WoD is stupid and needs a hit, agreed wholeheartedly. Nerf FF? cool, but then wounding strike needs a hit as well else the DW/bleed spam will drive you insane.

Escape needs to end on (melee) hit, this way you might preserve it for a creative BOW ranger build or two.

Grasping actually requires timing and can be triggered by a fake attack, so it can be dealt with accordingly, the skill is fine as it is. let's not forget melee is rather powerful, so some counters are definitely needed else people will just get buttraped by hammer warriors and thumpers. Besides that grasping isn't even too good because letting a hammer warrior get close enough to use it will result in getting KD'd a lot, which prevents you from running away.

Sun Fired Blank · Jul 14, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

That's a very clever response.

Draw is -5 E. Foul Feast is -2 to +infinite E. If they're inundating your entire group under conditions, you can use Foul Feast as a viable foil and tank it. If you are using Draw Conditions, you simply burn your energy reservoir to zero. You seriously can't argue they're identical.

Quote:

let's not forget melee is rather powerful, so some counters are definitely needed else people will just get buttraped by hammer warriors and thumpers.

You seriously underestimate the value of pre-kiting, decent kiting and strong prot. Most frontliner damage is rather marginal; hammers are not overly significant in terms of damage output. Shock Axe isn't very devastating either if you avoid inconvenient [Shock], [Bull's Strike] only hits you infrequently, and you don't get [Disrupting Chop] on key stuff.

Obviously in my fantasy thumpers aren't a problem because you put [Rampage as One] into the ground.

bungusmaximus · Jul 14, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Op HAS got a few very good points, better focus on the good ones instead of trolling him for the bad ones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

You seriously underestimate the value of pre-kiting, decent kiting and strong prot.

That's only proving my point that grasping earth isn't too good, because when you use grasping you're not kiting at all

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Sun Fired Blank · Jul 14, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

When you use Guardian, you're not kiting either, what's your point? You can rather easily gauge if a frontliner is charged or not. Strikes are not hard to gauge. If you use grasping in front of the warrior after an enraging spear activation and a handful of whacks, you're pretty stupid. So don't.