Curse

bungusmaximus · Jul 14, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Wanna nerf Shattering Assault combo?

Make it so Shattering Assault can't critical hit. Then the build runs out of energy.

with flurry and a set of zealous daggers you can train permanently, with or without that nerf i'm afraid. This shattering debate is a hard one, finally there's a sin build that doesn't 123-spike and people want it dead. I have to go with riotgear I think, nerf crit defenses and I think that build will be rather fine, linebacking destroys shattersins big time. I hate crit defense way more then shattering to begin with ><.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

The biggest problem in balancing TA is that, first, Anet has to actually balance the game.

When you get around that biggest obstacle, you start looking at GW as a whole, and find that the biggest competition is in the 8-player games (GvG, HA, most PvE). Undoubtedly, it means the game will be balanced around that. This means things affecting the party like heal party and paragon shouts are going to be much weaker in a 4v4 setting. It also means single target shutdown like WoD and SA are going to be much stronger.

With one monk and no real splitting option, it means hex overload is going to do really well too. Same with a lot of condi overload degen builds. The biggest thing that Anet looks for (if they ever actually look for anything), is how will these changes that make 4v4 balanced affect 8v8 settings? Will toning these OP 4v4 skills mean that it goes from average to useless in 8v8? If it does, then it probably won't get touched much. It's a shame, but that's what I would be considering if I was game balancing for GW.

However, all that is just a theory. And it's not even as good a theory as the dartboard one.

Actually it is a good theory. The balance of the game is focused more around the 8v8 not 4v4 as you said. But how many people use SoM in 8v8? And you never see just 1 thumper in a build you see at least 2 in 8v8. WoD is used occasionally if not often in 8v8 and 4v4 that skill needs a recharge nerf.

Hundbert · Jul 15, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

I don't think gvg or ha would be much affected by nerfing wod, wounding strike, som and ff. Rao could be deleted from the game for all i care.

bungusmaximus · Jul 15, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

Rao could be deleted from the game for all i care.

If that would be possible >dance<

Mindless skill in TA is mindless skill in GvG and HA imo. How powerful they are in different formats is beside the point.

urania · Jul 15, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

He is obviously bad.

I doubt you have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

at squall, im more concerned about dual SoM than a single one, esp if one of them is me/n...
ff is actually one of the more efficient counters to that crap...until you divert it \o/. But plague touch nor mend touch will help u much, esp not plague touch since the conds will simply get returned to you by plague sending.

FoxBat · Jul 15, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

With one monk and no real splitting option, it means hex overload is going to do really well too. Same with a lot of condi overload degen builds. The biggest thing that Anet looks for (if they ever actually look for anything), is how will these changes that make 4v4 balanced affect 8v8 settings?

Hex/condition spam builds are, at best, on the cusp of viability in GvG at the moment. WoD and Plague Signet + FF are the two things letting Necros show up in non-hexed GvG every now and then. Everything about degenerate dervishes but Wounding Strike is being nerfed, because I'm sure he's happy about the 1 D 1 W 1x frontlines you see here and there. No-one else may like them, but Izzy clearly does. So yeah, don't expect any nerfs to them anytime soon.

Then again, he did nearly delete assassins from GvG. That was shocking.

ChillOutDude · Jul 15, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

after this weekend i BEG for RaO to Die out. srsly.

C2K · Jul 15, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Hex/condition spam builds are, at best, on the cusp of viability in GvG at the moment. WoD and Plague Signet + FF are the two things letting Necros show up in non-hexed GvG every now and then. Everything about degenerate dervishes but Wounding Strike is being nerfed, because I'm sure he's happy about the 1 D 1 W 1x frontlines you see here and there. No-one else may like them, but Izzy clearly does. So yeah, don't expect any nerfs to them anytime soon.

Then again, he did nearly delete assassins from GvG. That was shocking.

Yeah, Izzy went totally unpredictable last skill update. I don't know whether to get my hopes up from that glimmer or to continue fearing for the environment getting worse.

Div · Jul 15, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

20-25 TA matches later, I learn that:

-RaO train hurts
-WoD necro kills solo monk builds
-Wild blow is dumb as a warrior skill
-SA combo is still amazing as ever
-I had to get on a monk to carry Langola because we kept dying with him on solo monk

I think with the right WoD nerf, the rest of that necro template wouldn't be *too* overpowered (outside of foul feast). Rip ench is solid, and could use a 12s recharge, but it's not extremely OP.

The antistance skills are really dumb, since you can't take wild blow on warriors. Fix that and slightly nerf RaO, and maybe you'll see more warriors and less R/W's. SA combo is great, and may be on the slightly OP side depending on what type of build you run.

From a build with just one monk and 3 offensive characters, a lot of these skills would be highly problematic. However, if a build has 2 defense and 2 offense, then a lot less needs to be tweaked. It all depends on what type of meta we want for TA.

bungusmaximus · Jul 15, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I don't quite follow you, what exactly do you mean by 'defensive characters'? will that be monks?

I June I · Jul 15, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

way too much to read and quote everything i wanted to but, moko is right (bring back zb!!!) and ishtli sed sumthing about CE and skillful play

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

As for the sig of midnight in TA barkeep you are seriously mistaken. The only way to beat that build is to have a build just to beat it. You basically have to run [ignorance] or [rust]+[complicate] to even disable it long enough to kill something with 1 melee. If I can't mash frenzy and hit stuff because of permablind there is something wrong. Honestly [blinding flash] can be used to perma blind but it can be interrupted by more means.

i lold, u need to rethink things if u cant beat a SoM team without those skills

and i dont remeber what squall said but hes prolly right biggest problems are FF and WoD, and the monk spec against current balanced play is ridiculous... the full heal bars of insta casts and sbash (or DE/return in my case) to combat the ranger camp (who no longer needs (or can) to rupt the nec cos of spotless) and WoD spam,...

kvndoom · Jul 15, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

FF and SoM need to die in the same update. Sdaly, one broken skill (somewhat) keeps the other broken skill in check. [Draw Conditions] on steroids versus a blindbot stronger than [Blinding Surge] when it was 5e 4r.

Nerf Rampage's duration so it can't have 100% upkeep. Lower the energy cost accordingly. Cause your pet to die when it ends (which will disable all your skills for a few seconds).

Wild Blow needs to a) drop guaranteed critical hit b) 50% fail with 4 Strength or less c) not cause adrenaline loss. Maybe even have an adrenaline cost instead of a fixed recharge. I'd really like to see this skill for once be useful on the class it was designed for.

Divine's statement is kinda profound, you know. If half your 4-man team is monks, the game has reached a point of stupidness.

Hundbert · Jul 15, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

If half your 4-man team is monks, the game has reached a point of stupidness.

So true

But with balanced you should be able to beat most builds. May have problems vs som though.

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 15, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

SA is so easy to shutdown... leave it alone

Seraphim of Chaos · Jul 15, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

SA is so easy to shutdown... leave it alone

Yes...SA is fairly easy to d-shot.

HolyHawk · Jul 15, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I believe wail of doom has to be changed or nerfed really hard. I don't think there's much of a way to deal with it other than with 2 healers or humility. Even with those, the RaO r/w bring d.chop, distracting blow and eventually the pet interrupt and spam on recharge. Even magebane spammers are not as dumb as them. With conditions being useless, hexes hardly coming out, your monk without attributes and block not cutting it, I think this is the only build that is trully overpowered in a 4x4 format. But I agree with some people said above, the focus should not be only TA; these changes should mind about GvG as well.

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 16, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

i really liked the old wail >.<

Chaos Rofl Copter · Jul 16, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

i really liked the old wail >.<

Me too, was really useful back then, people were just too stupid to use it =/

Sargeras · Jul 17, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

i really liked the old wail >.<

Ehm, it was bugged? Disabling attackskills although ur not attacking....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

last but not least.. rangers without bows should be pointed and laughed at.

/agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

I am just stating how TA was before and after the buff on FF. It was not signet of midnight or diversion that changed, it was the way that balanced deals with conditions that changed.

Maybe it was pure coincidence that lamers found their som at a time when FF got buffed? I wasn't playing this time, i don't know, just a guess. Or maybe it was just a reaction to the dual-monk-dual-sin-build?

Hundbert · Jul 17, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

I think it was WM that came up with the som build that is so popular.