Curse

matthew5276 · Aug 06, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

@ Yakuza... some of that had some truth in it, but some was just complete nonsense.

Rawr were one of the first teams to run the 4 monk team, and they managed to win a monthly with a similar build. By your logic that means that every other team in the mAT fail... which is simply not true.

Your 'method' of taking down a 4 monk team is slightly strage. First off, if one warrior is on a spilt... 2 ineptitude mesmers will have no problem stopping a warrior and a ranger doing anything, and so spamming diverstion and shame on monks wont have any effect, as they wont need to cast much anwyay. Another problem with that method is that in an 8 v 8 situtation and 4 monk team will have 4 hex removals, typically 3 veils and 1 smite hex. Both of the rc and woh monks can veil themselves, and then the smiter can smite anything else that gets through (if the veil is shattered for example).

Splitting agaisnt that team is very hard. A simple warrior and monk flagger split do not stand a chance against even a yaa smiter and ineptitude mesmer in their own base. a monk flagger will have a veil with a 12 second recharge. Wandering eye and Clumsiness have a 10 second recharge and last 4 second each, and ineptitude has a 20 second recharge and lasts 4 second, so in every 20 seconds, a warrio can have up to 20 seconds worth of hexes on him at a time, one or two can be removed with a veil giving a warrior up to 8 seconds to attack every 20 seconds. Thats not even considering any cover hexes or cast times on veil, or the hexes. Even when the warrior does attack, if he frenzys he is risking taking about 200 damage if he gets unlucky with a clumsiness. The damage from spamming rod stacks up, as well as smiting any conditions can do upwards of 150 damage if he frenzies, as a result, it is very unlikely that split team could take down any archers, and if they sent back a warrior to defend aswell, thats byebye split team.

Your method of killing the main team by spamming diversion and shame won't work, good monks can deal with diversion spams, especially as this build is meant to stop any pressure, and therefore stop monks having to force cast.

You can beat this build, but it is in no way easy, and you wont get far with your tactics agaisnt good teams running this build.

But yea, thursdays update will hopefully stop this build.

ajc2123 · Aug 06, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

The fact that Word of Healing heals for so much allows Monks to use it less and they can basically watch a Mesmer the whole match for Diversions. Or they can be faggots and run Hex Breaker.

Right, ok. Well I used to love WoH before the 'good' update where its a selfcast also now but, I can see how it is kinda superior. Two of these monks alone won't last (since im pretty sure Some prot is a must) but if they have prots and even smite monks, I can see where this would be VERY troublesome. Maybe it's casting time could be increased to 1 second? Or make a pvp ONLY update where it's power is debuffed a bit.

But I don't think nerfing monks is the way to go to stop this, I mean I saw a FIVE monk team this morning and its getting out of control imo.

*raises pitchfork* Can we start mobbing now?

yakuza · Aug 06, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

@ mathew5276 most of my posts don't make any sense, cause most of the ppl on guru don't even know what gvg means

alen · Aug 06, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

gujda dej nehi se brukat kr ni izi 4 monke pa dva ineptituda ubit. jst vem ker sm dejansko igrau wara prot niim, ne flagerja

aja pa r1000+ gvgji ne pokazejo kok mocen je bild

Zabe · Aug 06, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakuza

@ mathew5276 most of my posts don't make any sense, cause I don't even know what gvg means

I think I fixed your post.

yakuza · Aug 06, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

zabe u is pro

alen · Aug 06, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

ej gujda pejt igrat http://www.bringler.com/game/2606/Pandemic_2/
men je ratalu skor ceu svet pobit sm na madagascar nikokr ne pride bolezn....

ajc2123 · Aug 06, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Sry for being a stupid American guy with only 1 language. What is that O_o

la_cabra_de_vida · Aug 06, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

[Word of Healing][Restore Condition][Patient Spirit][Infuse Health]

These are the most common skills used to make red bars go up in current Monk bars. They provide way too much healing for the cost and recharge. If these skills were hit, Monks would take a lot more player skill to play well. Only Monks that efficiently use their prots well would succeed, while your average Monk would die more often.

If they are so strong they why is meta to bring another stand monk and 2 illusion mesmers with all melee shutdown?

Eric Lee · Aug 06, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida

If they are so strong they why is meta to bring another stand monk and 2 illusion mesmers with all melee shutdown?

Because it is even stronger (more monks [or rits] = more win).

And it lets your monks live longer. Recent studies showed that when you have 2 monks in a team and VoD hits their pulse literally explodes, thus increasing their risk of cardio vascular failure, heart attack and stroke by 25% to 32%.

With 3 or more monks and dual water or ineptitude mesmer your monks will experience a significantly calmer VoD hence their pulse won't accelerate as much which ensures a long and healthy life.

Give your monks a break, have a smiter and some illusion guys!

red orc · Aug 06, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Monks are fine, maybe some reduction of smite boon is needed.
What is broken is VOD.
Reduce the number of NPCs in VOD and the game will become more interesting. It will also end this 4 monks+1 rt kind of builds.

dies like fish · Aug 06, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida

If they are so strong they why is meta to bring another stand monk and 2 illusion mesmers with all melee shutdown?

A team that only has two Monks is able to bring more offense. When the other team's bad Monks can't cope with the amount of damage they're taking, they usually send some sort of split to either try to end the game before VoD or to get ahead on NPCs since they are losing Morale. People started losing to splits and/or are afraid of things like dedicated splits so they decided to bring a team full of defensive characters just in case.

erk · Aug 06, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Nothing wrong with infuse health but WoH is definatly one of the most overpowered monk skills at the moment.

WoH is a healing Elite the sole purpose of which is to heal a single target, of course it's going to be good at it, what else would you expect! The down side is it's easy to humility. You could knock 40 points of peak heal of WoH to bring it in line with ZB, but ZB is in the prot tree so it's not suppose to be as good healing. WoH still does less overall party wide healing than the old pre-nerf LoD use to. I always thought LoD/Infuse was a better build, than WoH/Infuse.

the big white guy · Aug 07, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

How to beat 4 monks teams, simple. Split. Look at Hero Battles for answers. Like gvg, hb has two options kill or cap in the same way gvg has two options kill or vod and pray to your monks. If you asking how to beat a split defense which usually consist of 1 monk, 1 antimele mes and a war; heres the solution. 4-4 split. If anyone remembers the guild Rise of the Shadow Prison Assassins[Rise] they split 4v4 and would roll over monk. ** NOTE slayer ran a sway build which has too much pressure for one healer to handle and enough defense that the war is worthless. Look VoD is overpowered this makes the meta defesive, however i have heard many rumors about VoD being nerfed tommorrow so this post is prolly worthless. But the only way to beat high defense is to spit and pressure

la_cabra_de_vida · Aug 07, 2008, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Splitting against a 4 monk team isnt exactly as easy as saying, "go send the ranger into their base." Current meta team can send the smite monk and rit back, have one mesmer run flags while their 2 frontliners and monks can either have a good chance at killing your stand team or colapsing on the split team.

Apok Omen · Aug 07, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

gogo tripple dom mes?

Anyway, the solid fact that top players are bringing smiters in to relief two warrior pressure is sad. Same with Ineptitude and Water messes, who just keep the warriors at bay instead of actually pressuring the enemy backline. I kind of miss DA/Motigons and bsurge, partly because you could dshot4win.

But now, since defense isn't as vulnerable to interrupts as it should be, it has gotten to the point where all matches might as well start with VoD, since that's with both teams are camping for. Splitting does jackshit, seeing as how 1 inep+ 1 smiter can stop a 4 man gank.

My solution, if it matters: Revert Bsurge, make Smiters Boon take 2 energy whenever they cast a smite skill or give it a 20 sec recharge so removing it has a great impact, take out interrupt effect on Wandering Eye and give it a recharge of 7 or 8.

la_cabra_de_vida · Aug 07, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

gogo tripple dom mes?

Anyway, the solid fact that top players are bringing smiters in to relief two warrior pressure is sad. Same with Ineptitude and Water messes, who just keep the warriors at bay instead of actually pressuring the enemy backline. I kind of miss DA/Motigons and bsurge, partly because you could dshot4win.

But now, since defense isn't as vulnerable to interrupts as it should be, it has gotten to the point where all matches might as well start with VoD, since that's with both teams are camping for. Splitting does jackshit, seeing as how 1 inep+ 1 smiter can stop a 4 man gank.

My solution, if it matters: Revert Bsurge, make Smiters Boon take 2 energy whenever they cast a smite skill or give it a 20 sec recharge so removing it has a great impact, take out interrupt effect on Wandering Eye and give it a recharge of 7 or 8.

Triple dom mes screams for the other team to either a) take you 8v8 because now you have no midline defence b) split you easily. Why is it hard to see teams bring smite monks when two mesmers can squeeze off hexes much faster than your veil can recharge. Ineptitude/Clumsiness/Wandering eye need to go back to what they were and activate off attacks skills, like many people here sudgested a while back when sinsplit was run rampant. I don't miss da/motigons, but some middle ground needs to be found with bsurge.

T A S T Y · Aug 07, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by the big white guy

How to beat 4 monks teams, simple. Split. Look at Hero Battles for answers. Like gvg, hb has two options kill or cap in the same way gvg has two options kill or vod and pray to your monks. If you asking how to beat a split defense which usually consist of 1 monk, 1 antimele mes and a war; heres the solution. 4-4 split. If anyone remembers the guild Rise of the Shadow Prison Assassins[Rise] they split 4v4 and would roll over monk. ** NOTE slayer ran a sway build which has too much pressure for one healer to handle and enough defense that the war is worthless. Look VoD is overpowered this makes the meta defesive, however i have heard many rumors about VoD being nerfed tommorrow so this post is prolly worthless. But the only way to beat high defense is to spit and pressure

Yea, 4-4 split against a team with 4 healers and 2 antimelee hexers is the way to go!