Curse

Ate of DK · Jul 07, 2008, 04:36 AM // 04:36

I agree, weapon of warding should be nerfed. Give it a 2sec. casting time please.

ghostlyfenix · Jul 07, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

It's 10 times easier to prot vs ritspike though.. the rift comes up 3 seconds before the damage so u have all the time to see who's getting spiked. Against rspike you have 1 second more or less to:
a) realize the attack skill is being activated
b) look at who the ranger is facing
c) cast SB
You will need a lot of help from your team to effectively prot vs rspike; people should always be well spread and be assured it almost never happens.
I find rspike much more of a threat than ritspike for a prot monk; true, ritspike will almost always rend the target just immediatly before the dmg comes up, but if your team somehow manages to interrupts the ench removals or you can time your SB perfectly most of time you will prot the spike effectively.
That's from my personal experience, i have a lot more issues against rspike than ritspike.

there skill called rend on the necro with snares and kd. A perfect rend and you wont be able to prot or infuse vs that.

there is also a skill called spell breaker that is casted on recharge on the caller. Dont expect your mez or what ever you have to sit on him all game, cause i doubt you will kill anything, then you will eventually die.

against ranger spike, theres a skill called weapon of waridng which cannot be removed. rigor can easily be removed from the ghost with a prevail or any prot will save it because a ranger spikes rend comes usually from there caller so he may have to delay his spike, but with rit spike, obviously the rend comes from a non spiker.

Maybe for you ranger spike may be easier, but i bet for the majority people would agree, rit spike is alot tougher to monk through

Apok Omen · Jul 07, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

I like how this turned from a wishlist to a bitch-fest about which spike is most overpowered.

Btw, I want LoD back to the way it was, and maybe a cookie for each fame we win.

Razz L Dazzle · Jul 07, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Lots of people playing again

Arya Nibelrund · Jul 07, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Couple of thoughts....
Weapon of warding is 1 second cast, so you CANT preprot with it.
So, let's say you are in halls with old KOTH system and you're playing vs a rspike; you chain WoW on ghostly i suppose. First thing I'd do if i was a ranger-spiker I'd d-shot your WoW (if you fail at dshotting 1 sec cast skills u deserve to lose). In any other map you'll probably cast WoW on a DPed target, or infuser; random choice anyway as you CANT cast it on who's getting spiked without guessing. If I'm a rspiker and i have a brain i will NEVER call a spike on the only enemy who has a weapon spell on him. Thus, the whole argument of how WoW will save you against a rspike is pointless.
Again from personal experience, 90% of spikes will be without rigor so really, the only way of protting it is looking at the direction of the spikers and let me tell you, i still have to see someone who can do it constantly (ingame, on forums everyone plays perfectly), esp. on 3vs3 maps. Otherwise halls wouldn't be loaded with rspikes. I played a fair amount of matches in the last few months and rspike is the highest threat.
Another thought, and i think it's pretty funny; it's so nice to see players theorycrafting so deeply on forums about the game when actually you go play and pug, even with high ranked (11+) and yet you see how bad almost everyone fails. I am very skeptical when i read comments like: 'wow that build is so easy to beat, just do this and this and that', yet ingame I see things like shames on eles, PD mesmers sitting on warriors, random prots thrown around, people casting thru diversion, huge balls, no weapon swaps etc etc.
About ritspike, yes the caller will have SB chained on him, the rend will be timed perfectly most of the times; yet you know in advance where the spike is going, you have time to weapon swap, you can try to make your SB land immeditaly after the rend, you can try to infuse more efficiently cause you know exactly when and where the damage is going. To me that's a good advantage compared to rspike. I'm not saying you WILL be able to infuse or prot every spike, but at least you have more awareness.
Anyway, i hope the thread will be back to topic.

Updated wishlist:
- more people playing
- less skips
- no Courtyard
- map based fame system: 1 fame for UW, 2 fame for Fetid, ....., 20 fame for first Halls win etc etc

bcelmo · Jul 07, 2008, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Wishlist

15 nrg, 60 recharge Shelter
15 nrg, 60 recharge Union
15 nrg, 60 recharge Displacement
75% recharge Ritual Lord
a comeback of iway

supa tim · Jul 07, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejp

if you could learn to read older post i was talking about spikes on the ghost in the last 2 minutes if it went halls went back to holding alter at end

then why are you talking about +10 vs piercing? Or is it suddenly possible to choose what shield ur Ghost is wielding?

Edit:

On topic:

remove fetid + capture points (also from halls)
less skips,
remove rangers from HA
Scythe nerf

Frank Dudenstein · Jul 07, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Borat ... Heres the problem with your idea .. your suggestion takes all of the 'easy-no-skill' builds out of the game.

If that happens, the only people left in HA will be the ones that can effectively run a balanced build. All 12 of them. Is that really enough people to support a format?

I mean, have you ever seen a r3+ team run balanced? No one will want to suffer through that. Wait .. bad example .. forget that. Have you ever seen a r10+ team run balanced? No one will want to suffer through that...

Ka Tet · Jul 07, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

Borat ... Heres the problem with your idea .. your suggestion takes all of the 'easy-no-skill' builds out of the game.

If that happens, the only people left in HA will be the ones that can effectively run a balanced build. All 12 of them. Is that really enough people to support a format?

actually the no-brainers would be replaced by the people who are sitting out of ha and waiting for a skill balance, sounds like a good trade to me
on the bright side, i'd be coming back to HA with a brand new set of armor- complete with a ninja mask WOOT- and a KoaBD title

deathwearer · Jul 07, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

Couple of thoughts....
Weapon of warding is 1 second cast, so you CANT preprot with it.
So, let's say you are in halls with old KOTH system and you're playing vs a rspike; you chain WoW on ghostly i suppose. First thing I'd do if i was a ranger-spiker I'd d-shot your WoW (if you fail at dshotting 1 sec cast skills u deserve to lose). In any other map you'll probably cast WoW on a DPed target, or infuser; random choice anyway as you CANT cast it on who's getting spiked without guessing. If I'm a rspiker and i have a brain i will NEVER call a spike on the only enemy who has a weapon spell on him. Thus, the whole argument of how WoW will save you against a rspike is pointless.
Again from personal experience, 90% of spikes will be without rigor so really, the only way of protting it is looking at the direction of the spikers and let me tell you, i still have to see someone who can do it constantly (ingame, on forums everyone plays perfectly), esp. on 3vs3 maps. Otherwise halls wouldn't be loaded with rspikes. I played a fair amount of matches in the last few months and rspike is the highest threat.
Another thought, and i think it's pretty funny; it's so nice to see players theorycrafting so deeply on forums about the game when actually you go play and pug, even with high ranked (11+) and yet you see how bad almost everyone fails. I am very skeptical when i read comments like: 'wow that build is so easy to beat, just do this and this and that', yet ingame I see things like shames on eles, PD mesmers sitting on warriors, random prots thrown around, people casting thru diversion, huge balls, no weapon swaps etc etc.
About ritspike, yes the caller will have SB chained on him, the rend will be timed perfectly most of the times; yet you know in advance where the spike is going, you have time to weapon swap, you can try to make your SB land immeditaly after the rend, you can try to infuse more efficiently cause you know exactly when and where the damage is going. To me that's a good advantage compared to rspike. I'm not saying you WILL be able to infuse or prot every spike, but at least you have more awareness.
Anyway, i hope the thread will be back to topic.

Updated wishlist:
- more people playing
- less skips
- no Courtyard
- map based fame system: 1 fame for UW, 2 fame for Fetid, ....., 20 fame for first Halls win etc etc

I just agree with everything you said. People just do too much theorycrafting and this always involve perfect playing.

Killed u man · Jul 07, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Well, like I said, my updates were out of personal interest.

I wouldn't mind seeing this happen aswell:

Buffed paragons Awe, so we get to see para thumpers or something.

Or a buff in Monks smiting skills, so we get to see buttonbash gimmicks for monks. (Symbol of Wrath Area AoE please???)

And face it, you're still better off playing with 1 good other balanced team (as an opponent) rather than 1000 PvE sway/rspike/sf spike teams...

ejp · Jul 07, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

then why are you talking about +10 vs piercing? Or is it suddenly possible to choose what shield ur Ghost is wielding?

Edit:

On topic:

remove fetid + capture points (also from halls)
less skips,
remove rangers from HA
Scythe nerf

contradict your self much pick what your talking about warding the whole party or spiking a ghost

supa tim · Jul 07, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejp

contradict your self much pick what your talking about warding the whole party or spiking a ghost

YOU are saying ur talking about spiking the ghost, but +10 vs piercing has nothing to do with the ghost, so i make a comment about that and now ur saying i was talking about the ghost in my first post?

ejp · Jul 08, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

YOU are saying ur talking about spiking the ghost, but +10 vs piercing has nothing to do with the ghost, so i make a comment about that and now ur saying i was talking about the ghost in my first post?

when i said WoW i meant on ghost then u brought up whole team so i brought up shields now ur back to ghost u can try your hardest to make me look bad but it only affect you

Bloodseeker · Jul 08, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

nerf Rspike, nerf hexways. remove all cap point maps or change them drastically except HoH, remove HoH relic run.

supa tim · Jul 08, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejp

when i said WoW i meant on ghost then u brought up whole team so i brought up shields now ur back to ghost u can try your hardest to make me look bad but it only affect you

lol you had both WoW and shields in thesame post...

Edit:

btw WHERE did i contradict myself lol??

blackknight1337 · Jul 09, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

off topic, supa and ejp take it to pm's...

on-topic

for rspike and a/d variation therof:

add aftercast to forked, dual, and sloth hunters
just enough to make it to where savage lands ~1 sec after the main part of the spike. this promotes active use of shield swaps and a good infuser.

if necessary after that, either change forked and dual to shoot only one arrow under brutal, or nerf dmg stacking of brutal, glass, and winds.

rend enchants ==> 2 sec cast. should make it so caller or paragon spikes late or not at all, even with reflexes on.

add 3/4 to 1 sec of aftercast to deaths charge, dark prison, and shadow walk. a/d variation is already easier to beat, since you have a melee to follow when he isn't shadowstepping. adding enough aftercast makes the telespikes prottable to a reasonable degree, and having 2 sec cast on rend makes a spiker who uses it not able to spike on time.

LifesRestorer · Jul 09, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlyfenix

there skill called rend on the necro with snares and kd. A perfect rend and you wont be able to prot or infuse vs that.

there is also a skill called spell breaker that is casted on recharge on the caller. Dont expect your mez or what ever you have to sit on him all game, cause i doubt you will kill anything, then you will eventually die.

against ranger spike, theres a skill called weapon of waridng which cannot be removed. rigor can easily be removed from the ghost with a prevail or any prot will save it because a ranger spikes rend comes usually from there caller so he may have to delay his spike, but with rit spike, obviously the rend comes from a non spiker.

Maybe for you ranger spike may be easier, but i bet for the majority people would agree, rit spike is alot tougher to monk through

protting against ritspike is not about reflex, it's all about the timing. between the time of the rend and the rifts hitting, there is a 1/4 second window of opportunity to get the spirit bond in. any earlier and it will be rended. any later and the target will be dead. It's quite easy to do once you figure out how to do it.

your argument of preprotting Rspike with WoW is absolutely rediculous. Rspike is the most powerful spike in the game in terms of damage, is unblockable due to anthem of guidance, is hard to preprot due to it being a fully ranged spike (thus making it difficult to see where the spike is going to land before any damage takes place) and has a short cast time on the initial spike, leaving no time for monks to brace themselves for the incomming damage.

All other ranged spikes require 6+ spikers to join in on the spike, and if one of these spikers are out the spike becomes unclean and therefore infusable. Ranger spike only needs 3 people to be in on the spike, halving the chance of an error occurring.

supa tim · Jul 09, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

off topic, supa and ejp take it to pm's...

Off-topic: I need to say no more to this.... lad

on topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

protting against ritspike is not about reflex, it's all about the timing. between the time of the rend and the rifts hitting, there is a 1/4 second window of opportunity to get the spirit bond in. any earlier and it will be rended. any later and the target will be dead. It's quite easy to do once you figure out how to do it.

your argument of preprotting Rspike with WoW is absolutely rediculous. Rspike is the most powerful spike in the game in terms of damage, is unblockable due to anthem of guidance, is hard to preprot due to it being a fully ranged spike (thus making it difficult to see where the spike is going to land before any damage takes place) and has a short cast time on the initial spike, leaving no time for monks to brace themselves for the incomming damage.

All other ranged spikes require 6+ spikers to join in on the spike, and if one of these spikers are out the spike becomes unclean and therefore infusable. Ranger spike only needs 3 people to be in on the spike, halving the chance of an error occurring.

I totally agree with this. Also good note about the vent laggs/ingame lagg.

Usually as an infuser I dont watch the field at all vs Rspike (only channeltanking) and I use my reflexes/red bars to deal with the spike. But I always have the R/N pinged to c where the rend is going, and when I c sloth/dual/forked arrow popping up I always give myself a Patient spirit so I get healed right after Ive infused, which makes it harder to insta-spike/fake spike me afterwards.

Free Sigils · Jul 09, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

About ritspike, yes the caller will have SB chained on him, the rend will be timed perfectly most of the times; yet you know in advance where the spike is going, you have time to weapon swap, you can try to make your SB land immeditaly after the rend, you can try to infuse more efficiently cause you know exactly when and where the damage is going. To me that's a good advantage compared to rspike. I'm not saying you WILL be able to infuse or prot every spike, but at least you have more awareness.
Anyway, i hope the thread will be back to topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

protting against ritspike is not about reflex, it's all about the timing. between the time of the rend and the rifts hitting, there is a 1/4 second window of opportunity to get the spirit bond in. any earlier and it will be rended. any later and the target will be dead. It's quite easy to do once you figure out how to do it.

Quoted for being smart. Too many people panic when they see the rends and never try to get the timing. I can think of a half-a-dozen monks off the top of my head who have gotten the timing and can stop our spike cold. I can even think of several infusers who can as they tell me "count to three" and stop Rift spikes consistently. Its all about being flexible. Too many monks learned to monk in only one style and then the moment they face something new they don't know how to/won't adapt. Its just small mindedness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

- map based fame system: 1 fame for UW, 2 fame for Fetid, ....., 20 fame for first Halls win etc etc

I suggested something similar to this a while back as well. Got flamed for it :P

But /agree.

And I personally Would Like to See:
- Earth Aoe Spell's Recharge Reduced to encourage something other than a Fire Ele.
- Since we can't get rid of Weapon Spells atm I would like to see Some of the other's buffed to get some more play than just Splinter/Warmonger's/Brutal/Vital. Guided Weapon and etc.
- I would like Decapitate be modded to only loose Adrenaline, not your energy as well. Because its sexy.