Curse

jaeharys targaryen · Aug 15, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I think people are looking too much into the bar.

The question is: will xinrae's weapon replace wor in a flagger bar. The life steal is 5 higher than wor, with the ability to reduce next hit to 5% (great for protting against any spike damage). You lose the ability to take off a condition, which is pretty big on splits (where the wor/xinrae flagger shines vs something like caretakers/oos). It's certainly worth a try, but I'd still prefer wor, at least when theorycrafting.

But who knows. It's not like I've played this game outside of ABs since the update.

The entire argument is irrelavent, imho, when CC is so much better than either.

Also I just dont see the superiority of a WoR on a split (as you mentioned), because the CC rit can help kill just as well, and stay alive just well, and in every other aspect, its better. Also, building around a split that might not happen is kinda minimalist isnt it?

dies like fish · Aug 15, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeharys targaryen

The entire argument is irrelavent, imho, when CC is so much better than either.

Also I just dont see the superiority of a WoR on a split (as you mentioned), because the CC rit can help kill just as well, and stay alive just well, and in every other aspect, its better. Also, building around a split that might not happen is kinda minimalist isnt it?

Condition removal is probably the most important thing to have on a split.

jaeharys targaryen · Aug 15, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

Condition removal is probably the most important thing to have on a split.

I worded that terribly. Basically, i meant that when the only superiority on the split is the (marginal) condition removal, and when the CC is just so amazing otherwise, and when splits dont always happen, CC>WoR alot.

When you build around splits you lose. Building a defensive split is stupid, if you know you're going to be killed at the stand, build a better 8v8 build instead of letting them control the game. And building a countersplit is irrelevant, because then you already know to run WoR, or even a Mo/E or E/Mo.

And condition removal is meh tbh. As cavalier as it sounds, I'd rather not give them the chance to crip me by being a better player, splitter, and communicator.

Tearz1993 · Aug 16, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

[pure was li ming]

Useful at stand and on split.

jaeharys targaryen · Aug 16, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

[pure was li ming]

Useless at stand and on split because its got less than nothing on Protective was Kaolai, and saccing a skill and your weapon set instead of being a good WoW caster is bad play

Fixed.

10 characters

Tearz1993 · Aug 16, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

1) I never said don't bring prot was kaolai

2) I never said hold onto Pure was Li Ming

3) CC runners are constantly holding something.

Bad trolls are bad

jaeharys targaryen · Aug 16, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

1) I never said don't bring prot was kaolai

2) I never said hold onto Pure was Li Ming

3) CC runners are constantly holding something.

Bad trolls are bad

1)Nothing to imply otherwise, it IS an item spell, the post was so short and dismissive that i just HAD to treat it badly.

2)See above.

3)A good item.

Tearz1993 · Aug 16, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Yeah but the "reduce time conditions last" is so useless I forgot about it lol. Didn't mean it was great, just that it's useful in this meta (I mean condition pressure not RaOsmiteshit)

Modus Operandi · Aug 16, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I will take remedy over xinrea anyday, the ability to remove condition on split is just too important, a ranger can degen 3 NPCs at once and you can't keep up with xinrea, but remedy can do it.

It's a question of remedy vs caretaker imo and that depends largely on the map. For example on Fronzen Isle you want remedy absolutely, but on hall like burning, CC is better.

Mr Pink57 · Aug 16, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

A ranger can just as easily reapply that condition though. Why not take a bigger health steal since its just gonna get spammed again. And cripple is almost always covered with poison.

pink

Modus Operandi · Aug 16, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

If you cast remedy before cripshot/pindown/melandru, cripple will get removed first, no ? A good flagger always watch the ranger for cripple attacks to strafe, and in this case remedy.

Ec]-[oMaN · Aug 16, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modus Operandi

If you cast remedy before cripshot/pindown/melandru, cripple will get removed first, no ? A good flagger always watch the ranger for cripple attacks to strafe, and in this case remedy.

If a prep is up cripple is applied first in the chain, so no. Never liked CC, the amount of kills actually related to the use of the skill is so minimal, crappy euro bars ftl. WOR is still better for removing that degen on the split and keeping npcs up.

Snow Bunny · Aug 16, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

[caretaker's charge] is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing strong

Zuranthium · Aug 17, 2008, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

If a prep is up cripple is applied first in the chain, so no. Never liked CC, the amount of kills actually related to the use of the skill is so minimal, crappy euro bars ftl. WOR is still better for removing that degen on the split and keeping npcs up.

Hmm, I've found Caretaker's to be much better than WoR, overall. Definitely have gotten kills from the damage it offers on split and it helps push spikes through as well.

WoR really doesn't help keep NPCs up; it's less efficient than both Soothing and Wielder's Boon and using those along with Weapon of Warding already takes up all your energy. Caretaker's being free is the crucial aspect and you'll defend the base better with that Elite because the extra damage being produced helps to push the attackers back (the self heal doesn't hurt either).

Both of these Elites are inferior to HIDDEN CALTROPS, though. Rit Runners should almost always be using that now.

~Z

Mr Pink57 · Aug 17, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Both of these Elites are inferior to HIDDEN CALTROPS, though. Rit Runners should almost always be using that now.

~Z

We actually ran this on our runner, its much better I think for a snare vs that silly Rt/E runner.

pink

frojack · Aug 18, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

CC is ok as long as you realise you can't defend the base effectively on your own against a typical gank (Warrior and Ranger). As long as that is understood, the extra damage on spikes is nice, especially for top guilds who can push effectively even while sending help back to the base when the enevitable gank occurs.
A good ranger will destroy a Rit runner without WoR or to a lesser extent, XW (which is ok but removing the poison for free can save around 30+ damage from degen, which adds up). Unless your turtling in your lord room, the ranger will be in your face waiting to lock your skills.

The only 2 reliable skills in that scenario are [skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] and [skill]Wielder's Boon[/skill]. Everything else is D Shot/Savage food.

In fact, I faced the most annoying ranger I've seen in a while on Warrior's who brought D Shot, Savage, and Magebane... Yeah... (while I was cursing over poison damage, because I had XW instead of WoR, all managed to do was get his thief killed, and almost himself when I called for the ranger to come and get the flag).

BTW the new meta is boring. Smiters are not fun, and the VoD replacement, MLD (Mad Lord Dash) is comical at best...

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 18, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

If a prep is up cripple is applied first in the chain, so no. Never liked CC, the amount of kills actually related to the use of the skill is so minimal, crappy euro bars ftl. WOR is still better for removing that degen on the split and keeping npcs up.

Rawr started running CC afaik, ym is a euro bar!