Curse

TheHaxor · Aug 03, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke

Rangers dont need to be nerfed, you seriously cant be that bad to lose always vs rspike, if you think you know what your going to come up against then prepare for it, shields up , piercing shields , anti melee , even incoming if your that desperate O.o

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

piercing shields
Shields Up
using terrain
CoF
Monks that don't suck
shut down on the weapon rit

I'm sorry, but if you're losing to rspike regularly then you're bad.

NO WAY THE BUILD HAS COUNTERS. YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES.

You are so ignorant if you think that a build isn't overpowered just because it has counters. You guys are the cancer that is killing Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Lolrspikers

12345

P.S: It's called legoway, and it's a spike-build, not balanced...

It's true. There aren't any real balanced builds in halls anymore. Everything is 3-2-1.

Ate of DK · Aug 04, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

You are so ignorant if you think that a build isn't overpowered just because it has counters. You guys are the cancer that is killing Guild Wars.

No, Anets marketing has killed GW.

Each chapter had new overpowered skills that became meta immediatly. Bring cash on Anets bankaccount. After a while they nerf stuff again. That's how they made money and also destroyed the whole game.

It has nothing to do with ignorant people. Because like in any game people care about ranks and nothing else. Same reason why people create new accounts for a FPS and rape all noobs and get the highest rank in a minimum number of games. It's numbers that count instead of skill. There are only few people that play 4 fun, like myself. (Yes, I know. I have a [TV] tag)

Which brings me back to R-spike. People play the easiest builds to get fame.

TheHaxor · Aug 04, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

No, Anets marketing has killed GW.

Each chapter had new overpowered skills that became meta immediatly. Bring cash on Anets bankaccount. After a while they nerf stuff again. That's how they made money and also destroyed the whole game.

This was true in the past but is not true now. No new skills are going to be added to the game. This means it is possible to fix what we have now if people actually push for it. If you do this now, then they can fix this stuff for Guild Wars 2. The only way to get anything done is to push for it rather than being ignorant to the situation.

Adding more skills and classes to the game was bound to cause imbalance. It always does. Obviously, they didn't do nearly enough testing for the expansions in Guild Wars, or they had the wrong people doing the testing. They would much rather have a large player base with mostly happy players. Destroying a game and having people quit the game was not the game plan and it would be a very poor game plan to have if you want to make more money.

Ciric · Aug 04, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragedy_Strikes

Okay, gotcha, two DAs, they time it. IE there MUST be a downtime. Window of opportunity to drop targets. PS: RSpike can spike Paragons (Cracked Armor agogo).

You really think Blurred will shut down an RSpike? 3 Monks = 3 Hex Removals, Spreading out = Blurred is on one target, good joke. I love it when people don't think before they post.

Fairly certain I've already mentioned that a decent Dom Mesmer + some other minor tactics will help you beat RSpike, I never said RSpike was unbeatable, it is still an incredibly strong build. But you mentioned an HA standard, so let's talk about an HA standard PD Mes. HUR DIVURSZHUN SPAM DA RITALIS. Good point.

Remember, DShot isn't the only interrupt on an RSpike bar, and frankly, if your RSpike is coordinated well enough (should be if they're playing RSpike), they all won't need Savages to drop targets.

Like I said, it isn't unbeatable, but anyways. Interrupts are teh anti everything as well, and RSpike has plenty of them. If you're 100% focused on stopping the spike, I really doubt your offense will NOT blow ass.

That's already been a gimmick before, but that aside, your offense will blow, but okay. Hurd fire hurts a team with 6 interrupts and 4 hard targets. Hurd prot breaks shitty trackable spikes. The only reason that the original legoway worked as well as it did was because A. people ran lots of softies and B. the Dervish helped you machine gun spike, but nop you need KDs. Honestly, you can list tons of counters to RSpike with your build, and I can list tons of counters to your build with RSpike, it's not that complicated. What matters is yours takes a lot more of a thought process than RSpike. RSpike is just "INTERRUPT THAT FGT AND SPIKE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO." Hence why good Balanced players get more respect than good RSpikers. When two builds can accomplish the same feats and one actually requires team coordination beyond 321, that build is NOT over-powered.

Really, I thought before I typed, I just didn't consider every possibility. I was only taking what people were offering, and look, I just took what you offered, broke it down, and explained to you how Build Wars works.

First off, in your ignorance i think you forgot that the common r-spike is no longer the 3 ranger one, why because it is to easy to shutdown. So please keep into thought what r-spike you are talking about. A 3 man r-spike gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed by blurred just as bad tbh, as long as it is well timed, it also gets destroyed by dom mesmers.

I also herd that if you use your savage/punish you will not get spikes threw on key targets if any kind of prot was on it.. even the worst prot monk can rof sb and guardian spam.. please tell me your going to take down all of those too.... OH and if you are explain how your going to take down all this offence.. wait.. your not. Yes a r-spike can take down some of your defence. Yes if can take down alot of your offense if it chooses. It however can not take down both at once, sorry, i hate when ignorant people post.

And please, someone point out a balanced build that doesn't have some form of 3-2-1, i think 90% of the players realized that a spike kills faster, weather its a balanced pressure spike like lego, or dedicated spike liek r-spike, the difference lies in the way they can split damage, pressure between spikes, and can train kills. To say balance does not involve spiking is just stupid.

Next please.

Tragedy_Strikes · Aug 04, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

First off, in your ignorance i think you forgot that the common r-spike is no longer the 3 ranger one, why because it is to easy to shutdown. So please keep into thought what r-spike you are talking about. A 3 man r-spike gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed by blurred just as bad tbh, as long as it is well timed, it also gets destroyed by dom mesmers.

I also herd that if you use your savage/punish you will not get spikes threw on key targets if any kind of prot was on it.. even the worst prot monk can rof sb and guardian spam.. please tell me your going to take down all of those too.... OH and if you are explain how your going to take down all this offence.. wait.. your not. Yes a r-spike can take down some of your defence. Yes if can take down alot of your offense if it chooses. It however can not take down both at once, sorry, i hate when ignorant people post.

And please, someone point out a balanced build that doesn't have some form of 3-2-1, i think 90% of the players realized that a spike kills faster, weather its a balanced pressure spike like lego, or dedicated spike liek r-spike, the difference lies in the way they can split damage, pressure between spikes, and can train kills. To say balance does not involve spiking is just stupid.

Next please.

First of all, you caught me, I didn't know about this new form of RSpike. Please tell me what it is, so I can continue to think 3 Rangers is better because frankly it probably is.

Next you're calling me ignorant? So, let's say that, for the sake of example my Rangers actually do what needs to be done (Not hard considering how few key skills you actually have, contrary to your personal belief of having a fortress designed of thousands of anti-RSpike skills) to beat your very original build, and you have Prot to back everything up. Then how, you ask, if I'm shutting your defense down, am I going to shut down your offense? Let me tell you something:
Rangerspike has a backline too. It's amazing. So when I shut your defense down, and your physical heavy spike (similar to RSpike, weird) gets ready to spike (Because I can't shut it down), I actually have Guardian, SB, RoF, and Weapon Of Warding too. Let's see your Warrior + 2 Para + Fire Ele spike through a Weapon of Warding, please, that would blow my mind. You'd do like 200 damage, and my monks wouldn't even bother healing up that shit damage. You going to PD it because I played the DShot your Weapon of Warding card? Okay, Spike through an SB? You can't even spike fast enough to cause any real pressure. So yes, I'm ignorant, Mr. I Forgot RSpike Has A Backline Too. I don't have to shut down your offense with Rangers, I have a backline for that. (PS: I can eliminate four targets from your list of targets to spike because a Paragon and 3 Rangers are all hard targets PPS: If Rend is a dead give away of a spike, so is Cracked Armor).

Frankly, you can't call me ignorant, then be so stubborn that you don't even read my whole post. Let me recap the most important statement I made:
Just because we can play Build Wars, doesn't mean RSpike isn't overpowered. You can form up Legoway and run "Counter-RSpike" but frankly, you'll be trying a lot harder than some pugged mediocre RSpike who just 3 2 1s and Savage/DShots certain skills.

Finally, I agree with your last statement. All balanced builds need some form of a spike for quick kills and/or a fall-back solution.

Why I even bother to post on this forum eludes me, but something draws me back.

Dronte · Aug 04, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

It's true. There aren't any real balanced builds in halls anymore. Everything is 3-2-1.

Thats not true. Balanced means it consist from many professions e.g war, para, ele, ritu, meso, monk etc. It doesnt matter if you spike with it or not.

Tweeaaked · Aug 04, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

This thread needs to be Purrged.

Lews · Aug 04, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

I was in pRp.

TheHaxor · Aug 04, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

Thats not true. Balanced means it consist from many professions e.g war, para, ele, ritu, meso, monk etc. It doesnt matter if you spike with it or not.

That is so wrong...character variety isn't equivalent to balanced...

kostolomac · Aug 04, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

That is so wrong...character variety isn't equivalent to balanced...

Then gives us an example of a balanced team then.

Ate of DK · Aug 04, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Then gives us an example of a balanced team then.

There is no such thing as a balanced build.

Because it would be called hex-way or condition-way if it's based on degeneration and a warrior that kills of low targets.

It's an endless discussion.

kostolomac · Aug 04, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

That's what I thought , but I keep reading about balanced that , balanced this , like it's the only team in GW that should win halls and beat every other team.

Dronte · Aug 04, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

That is so wrong...character variety isn't equivalent to balanced...

Then what is?

edit: quickly looked after it and looks like you are wrong kkthxbye, also a few other notes for you to understand the term "balanced"
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Balanced

BlackEagle · Aug 04, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

Then what is?

edit: quickly looked after it and looks like you are wrong kkthxbye, also a few other notes for you to understand the term "balanced"
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Balanced

Firstly, you really can't take wiki to give the definition.

Also, what haxor is saying is that having a fair mix of professions does not make it balanced. A balanced team does have a mix of professions, but that sole fact (a mix of professions) does not alone make a team constitute as balanced.

For example, based on the link in wiki you could argue that sinsplit is balanced, if you're going solely by build. But of course no-one is going to argue that it is, because of the way the build is played. It's completely the same with every build - just because a balanced build will have a fair mix of professions, it doesn't mean that a build with a fair mix of professions is balanced - there are more elements to it than that, like play style and adaptability. The point is that no build in HA will be true balanced because the objectives are so linear and one-dimensional that as a result all builds will be the same.

Tragedy_Strikes · Aug 04, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Then gives us an example of a balanced team then.

A balanced build is a variety of classes who assist eachother in becoming a better team as a whole. A balanced team is capable of handling most situations by simply changing the way they play not the build. A balance build doesn't abuse broken mechanics.

TheHaxor · Aug 05, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dronte

Then what is?

edit: quickly looked after it and looks like you are wrong kkthxbye, also a few other notes for you to understand the term "balanced"
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Balanced

No. By that definition if I roll up a build with 2 W, 1 E, 1 Me, 1 N, 2 Mo, and 1 Rt and run EoE bomb with it that would be considered balanced. That wiki definition is very incomplete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragedy_Strikes

A balanced build is a variety of classes who assist eachother in becoming a better team as a whole. A balanced team is capable of handling most situations by simply changing the way they play not the build. A balance build doesn't abuse broken mechanics.

This is pretty much right. A balanced can alter the way they play based on the situation and the build makeup of the other team. The "balanced" builds that are run in HA can't really do this because they are all very defensive and meant to be played as control. Normally, a balanced can play as either beatdown (offensive) or control (defensive). For instance, when you run into a more defensive team than you with a balanced you run beatdown because they are simply better equipped to run control than you. If you run into hexes, then you run control because they are simply better equipped to run beatdown than you are. The problem with the HA builds is that they are not equipped to run beatdown very well at all.

blackknight1337 · Aug 05, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Balanced is a term used by elitists to attempt to show themselves higher than gimmicks.

Balanced groups typically contain at least 3-4 different professions, simply because you abuse more broken mechanics that way.

This is why you see wounding strike dervs spamming "r10 + balanced lf 3 ele, 1 rit, 1 mez, 2 mo" 3 ele because big aoe damage is pro, 1 rit because then we can stack SoH on the derv's conjure that spams covered deep wound, and a couple heals to fight enemy fire eles, and 1 mez cause we need it for the altar, and to screw monks. And 2 monks, cause we have to stay alive.

I saw a "balanced" in HA the other day that had 1 warrior, 5 eles, and 2 monks. Its like this, we take SF spike, add a melee to get easier deep wound (WS derv is pro), and add 2 monks for better heals, and we call it balanced.

LOLZ we are balanced, we don't play gimmmickes!

HA is a gimmick-fest, no exceptions. Everyone abuses whatever they possibly can, period. Balanced isn't the only team that can adjust playstyles on the fly, go watch a good rspike.

TheHaxor · Aug 05, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

Balanced is a term used by elitists to attempt to show themselves higher than gimmicks.

Balanced groups typically contain at least 3-4 different professions, simply because you abuse more broken mechanics that way.

This is why you see wounding strike dervs spamming "r10 + balanced lf 3 ele, 1 rit, 1 mez, 2 mo" 3 ele because big aoe damage is pro, 1 rit because then we can stack SoH on the derv's conjure that spams covered deep wound, and a couple heals to fight enemy fire eles, and 1 mez cause we need it for the altar, and to screw monks. And 2 monks, cause we have to stay alive.

I saw a "balanced" in HA the other day that had 1 warrior, 5 eles, and 2 monks. Its like this, we take SF spike, add a melee to get easier deep wound (WS derv is pro), and add 2 monks for better heals, and we call it balanced.

LOLZ we are balanced, we don't play gimmmickes!

HA is a gimmick-fest, no exceptions. Everyone abuses whatever they possibly can, period. Balanced isn't the only team that can adjust playstyles on the fly, go watch a good rspike.

Please refrain from thinking ever again.

This is just so horribly inaccurate that it makes me sick.

Ate of DK · Aug 05, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

HA is a gimmick-fest, no exceptions. Everyone abuses whatever they possibly can, period. Balanced isn't the only team that can adjust playstyles on the fly, go watch a good rspike.

I'm sorry, GuildWars is a gimmick fest. Not only HA.

The following has nothing to do with R-spike but simply explains my view on GW=Gimmick!

(PvE had the holy trinity before Ursan Blessing. It has solo-farming builds. You can't make more money without these kind of builds unless you get a very lucky drop.

RA should be a nice place to test builds but you find nothing but people who want to farm their gladiator title there using the standard gimmick builds that roll test builds.

TA has only few builds that are used atm because of the meta.

AB is a place where you could test something but are not in control of the game because the other 2 4-man teams might be as bad as hell. Therefore not really PvP but more a PvP area for PvE players. Just test and remove the scoreboard from your screen...

HA has a maximum of 10 different builds with a few 2nd classes that change for a single skill. The maps made it like that and there isn't much room for testing because you get rolled. I think it's stupid to expect much new builds except from a few exploits/bugs in the past. The game mechanics cause this.

GvG shows more of the so called balanced builds but requires a bit more strategy and players abilities to play at the top. If you're in the middle you get rolled by Olias and Livia as well on some occassions.

Even in the Zaishen Elite you get spiked by Air elementalists...)

HB... no comment. Heroes are the worst thing that were introduced into this game.

supa tim · Aug 05, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Balanced means it can handle most situations average/above average, while spike builds for example are good at 1v1 and bad at split balanced teams can handle both situations just as well.

my 2 cents.