Curse

kosh · Sep 25, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

[Dev Update] Guild Battles - 25 September 2008

* Removed the reduced durations of hexes and conditions on the Guild Lord so that they last the normal amount of time.
* Refined how aggressiveness is measured for teams in Guild Battles. Dealing damage to the enemy Guild Lord still increases your team's aggressiveness. Casting enchantments and weapon spells on your Guild Lord now decreases your aggressiveness. If neither Guild Lord is killed before 28 minutes have passed, the more aggressive team is awarded the victory.

Originally, the reduced duration of hexes and conditions was meant to keep powerful, long-lasting effects from bypassing the Guild Lord's high armor, making him unable to do damage, or abusing his AI. As the game has matured, we've discovered this is not necessary and also creates problems (such as making spells like Wastrel's Worry stronger when used on the Guild Lord). We've removed this mechanic entirely.

Our goal is to encourage active and tactically rich play in Guild Battles. Because of this, we've used each team's "aggressiveness" to determine which team should win if neither Guild Lord is slain. Recently, some degenerate builds were developed to exploit how aggressiveness was calculated. Using six or seven Monks, these builds would attempt to prevent any damage to their Guild Lord while sending a token offense to deal nominal damage to the enemy Guild Lord. We've changed how aggressiveness is determined to prevent these builds from playing a role in the upcoming Monthly Tournament and in the future. In the long term, as necessary, we will make adjustments to ensure that the primary objective in Guild Battles is to kill the enemy Guild Lord.

øln · Sep 25, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

It would be quite helpful with bar that shows each teams aggressiveness. Asi it is now it will seem even more random than before.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Sep 25, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Gotten a lot of people confused about the wording so I figured I'll clear up the math a bit here. We're using the term "Aggressiveness" for the tiebreaker.

Aggressiveness is determined as such

* every point of damage done to enemy guild lord = 1 point of aggressiveness.
* every enchantment or weapon spell cast on your guild lord = -50 points of aggressiveness.

If both teams fail to kill the Guild Lord before 28 min the team with the most Aggressiveness wins the game.

Note:

* Lifestealing, and degen don't count as damage, and thus don't add to your Aggressiveness.

In effect, we treat every enchantment and weapon spell as though it is preventing exactly 50 damage. Obviously, that's not really accurate, but it does make the sort of stall builds that had been cropping up obsolete and does something to even things out between healing and damage prevention. We only had time to do something simple, and well continue to refine this as needed.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ArenaNet_talk

eveloper_updates#Clarification

GourangaPizza · Sep 27, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

What about point blank effects skills like spirit rituals?

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 27, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

Our goal is to encourage active and tactically rich play in Guild Battles.

Yeah okay so that's why they removed Npc's from walking, and Guild lord, but left a dumb tie breaker Mechanic, and instead placed another dumb req.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

Because of this, we've used each team's "aggressiveness" to determine which team should win if neither Guild Lord is slain. Recently, some degenerate builds were developed to exploit how aggressiveness was calculated. Using six or seven Monks, these builds would attempt to prevent any damage to their Guild Lord while sending a token offense to deal nominal damage to the enemy Guild Lord.

WoW really. I haven't played this game in a while nor will I again. Was there some exploit out there that totally blocked ALL dmg using a team with 5 standard characters in order to put dmg on the lord? Maybe I'm not aware of this build but losing to a 7 monk team mean you should uninstall the game for 2 reasons; i)you suck ii)look at what the game has become

So now we have yet another dumb mechanic in place just before an MAT, good work as always.

øln · Sep 28, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Well it have worked better than the last version so far.

keli · Sep 28, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

spirits dont affect guild lord :x

Shmanka · Sep 30, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I said this before on the QQ forums and I will say it again. Stop making complicated mechanics in order to win the game. The only thing wrong with the old VoD was how people ran super defence and the NPC's balled up. That means you buff NPC AI so they dont attack through clumsiness, and absolutely trash fire elementalist skills. Also make the NPC' have a stable position so a guild thief doesn't block them from getting into proper position.

IMHO That was the simple solution, it had a method to end the game, and the exploitation behind it would suffer.

I hope someone is reading this, you changed the game after 2.5 years completely, now prepare to update it and fix all these little nasty problems. You made it more complicated, now you will have to deal with more bullshit. A great example is as such: Hex the lord run in with pets one hit kill teams.

You would think you balanced hexes a long time ago? Guess what, taking out cyclone axe on the guild lord is gonna make this crappy build go away?

ANet, go back, fix what you can before no one at all plays.

DreamWind · Sep 30, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

^Couldn't agree more.

I've been saying this for years now with HA with GvG, hell with the entire game almost. Every time Anet tries to fix a problem, they just make it worse. The problems of yesterday were far less evil than the problems of the day. I can log on to observer and watch the game for 2 seconds to figure that out. The game needs a complete rewind which just isn't gonna happen. So GG to the game (well its been GG for quite a while but I'm saying it late).

Burton2000 · Sep 30, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Nope I disagree, I definatly prefer this meta than the npc farm meta of before.

Shmanka · Oct 01, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Burton, I don't think you actually understand why just simply hitting the guild lord is a better mechanic. Imagine an entire team almost DP'ed out but held on some miraculous way. Yet they sent a lone ranger to deal damage to the guild lord with one arrow. That was the team what won. How horrible is this?

Teams are now running W/Mo's Mo/W's and having one perma shadow form assasin run into a base and kill shit.

Explain how this is better then NPC farming. Really, explain the tactics in standing in front of the door body blocking the way into a guild hall completely, and not being able to stop one character from wanding the lord, costing you the entire game.

At least NPC farm used methods of defence and offense, and if you sucked at it you got punished.

I don't know what guild you are in, or your level of experience, but just simply stating your preferance isn't helping the community from seeing a simple problem that should have been fixed 6 months ago.

Divinus Stella · Oct 01, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

If you cant end the game against a dp'd out team whos 7/8 or even deal with a ranger on a split then its not the game mechanic thats bad.

Burton2000 · Oct 01, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

I have not logged in to guru or played for at least 2 months.

I cant believe how bad that update was.

That was my first reaction Joe but thats only because of the ambiguous nature of the notes. In reality the update doesn't do much but just stops any 7 monk teams that might exist so hasn't changed much.

Byron · Oct 01, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

All this criticism and no real sense. There were problems with the current system that had to be worked out before any substantial competitive play. That is, a tiebreaker system. Barring another overhaul of gvg, I think this fix was the best that could be done. It penalizes turtling teams and encourages aggressive builds. It's not perfect, but who would expect it to be?

If it's so bad, I'd like to hear what people would have done differently.

Allanon754 · Oct 01, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

All this criticism and no real sense. There were problems with the current system that had to be worked out before any substantial competitive play. That is, a tiebreaker system. Barring another overhaul of gvg, I think this fix was the best that could be done. It penalizes turtling teams and encourages aggressive builds. It's not perfect, but who would expect it to be?

If it's so bad, I'd like to hear what people would have done differently.

No it's not... not at all.

Quote:

I can only assume that they are trying to lower people's expectations for GW2 by constantly demonstrating that, as an organization, they really have no idea what they're doing. From top to bottom, this organization reeks of poor management and constantly demonstrates a lack of competency that is common among organizations that openly court failure.

In other words, Anet fails.

Neo-LD · Oct 02, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

How hard could it possibly be to add an aggression tab to the score chart?

*lemming* · Oct 02, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

People are getting way too worked up over a change to the tiebreaker that means virtually nothing in a 'real' match.

lutz · Oct 04, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

I said this before on the QQ forums and I will say it again. Stop making complicated mechanics in order to win the game. The only thing wrong with the old VoD was how people ran super defence and the NPC's balled up. That means you buff NPC AI so they dont attack through clumsiness, and absolutely trash fire elementalist skills. Also make the NPC' have a stable position so a guild thief doesn't block them from getting into proper position.

IMHO That was the simple solution, it had a method to end the game, and the exploitation behind it would suffer.

I hope someone is reading this, you changed the game after 2.5 years completely, now prepare to update it and fix all these little nasty problems. You made it more complicated, now you will have to deal with more bullshit. A great example is as such: Hex the lord run in with pets one hit kill teams.

You would think you balanced hexes a long time ago? Guess what, taking out cyclone axe on the guild lord is gonna make this crappy build go away?

ANet, go back, fix what you can before no one at all plays.

It's actually more simple now than before.

Before: When you start the game, some maps have closed gates that only open if the other team opens them, or an enemy guild thief opens them. You fight until the other team's Guild Lord is dead, unless the timer hits 18 minutes, when all teams get a damage boost, and healing is reduced, and all NPCs in each teams' base begin walking to the flag stand in waves, and the game continues until one team's Guild Lord is dead.

Now: Kill the opposing Guild Lord. If the timer hits 28 minutes and neither Guild Lord has died, the team with the most damage on each Guild Lord wins.