Curse

Shmanka · Nov 15, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I love all the fuss about splinter, it's like there has never been any AoE before in the game that could wipe out a bunch of NPCs! Have you seen what Glyph Sac.- >Meteor Shower ->Savannah Heat does to them?

Savannah Heat takes an elite slot, and a dedicated damage midliner, along with other skills that add nothing to the control of the entire match.

Splinter Weapon takes 10 channeling at worst.

Melody Cross · Nov 15, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

I think it's not the fact that a lot of people wanted Tactics in it, but that a lot of people wanted to get rid of the gimmicks. And the easiest way to beat a gimmick is with tactics, which is the most used counter in GvG. But there were no tactics in HA. So they implemented a couple, to get rid of gimmicks.

Which failed.

If the majority of people who actually played HA wanted tactical changes, HA wouldn't be down to 3 districts in ID now. Thats the problem, and a reason for the bickering GvG community we have now. The harder you squash gimmicks in one arena, the more quickly players from that arena migrate to another. It may be another game, it may be this one, but if you chase them out of their house, they're going to go somewhere.

So now Izzy's job is all that harder than it was in GWP and even GWF. Don't get me wrong, Nightfall broke a lot of the tactical play in the game. ATs made GvG less attractive for a lot of players (I still don't play it, which is really weird for me because there are a lot of matches I'm seeing in obs that make me think GvG would be fun again...I just don't want to wait an hour to play one of them). But it started with 6v6, and breaking one arena necessitated the continued brokenness of NF. Maybe, if I'm right about this (and I know that is a large assumption) had HA not been utterly destroyed, Izzy would have been able to balance GvG to a way that would make serious GvGers happy quickly. He would have had GvGers giving him feedback on GvG meta more than GvGers and displaced HAers screaming at each other, Anet and him to change one arena to fit two mindsets.

It was hard enough to keep players happy when they had 2 arenas for two different types of players. its impossible when you have 1 arena for both.

So for GW2 give gimmick build players a gimmick arena and leave it largely alone. Thats my theory on a lot of what happened in the last year of player/dev relations anyway.

GGs

Captain Robo · Nov 15, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Different formats require different rules. It's insane to have one large set of skills apply to both; that was a design flaw from the beginning.

GvG and HA should have had their own banned&restricted lists (of sorts) for a long time.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 15, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

Different formats require different rules. It's insane to have one large set of skills apply to both; that was a design flaw from the beginning.

GvG and HA should have had their own banned&restricted lists (of sorts) for a long time.

they're similar enough that you can lump them together; anything problematic in one format finds its way into another eventually.

Shmanka · Nov 16, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

they're similar enough that you can lump them together; anything problematic in one format finds its way into another eventually.

Rit Spike, SF Spike, and Thumperlame to me come in mind

erk · Nov 16, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Savannah Heat takes an elite slot, and a dedicated damage midliner, along with other skills that add nothing to the control of the entire match.

Splinter Weapon takes 10 channeling at worst.

So with 10 channeling as you say, that's 4 * 35 damage =140 assuming none of the hits miss the target. That's not very impressive in AoE terms considering it does not damage the actual target. In reality they only things going for it are the 5sec recharge and 5 energy cost. There are many non-elite AoE options that do damage the actual target.

What I like about splinter is it pushes people out of wards and choke points when they see splinter damage hitting them, that's better for game play. I personally hate the concept of wards/wells/spirit camping, or anything that restricts mobility.

Haskell · Nov 16, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Many people knew it right after release.

Bankai · Nov 16, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

So with 10 channeling as you say, that's 4 * 35 damage =140 assuming none of the hits miss the target. That's not very impressive in AoE terms considering it does not damage the actual target. In reality they only things going for it are the 5sec recharge and 5 energy cost. There are many non-elite AoE options that do damage the actual target.

140 damage, that you can recast every 5 seconds. For 5 energy. On a character that you don't know what skills to put on since the whole class is shit.

*lemming* · Nov 16, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

So with 10 channeling as you say, that's 4 * 35 damage =140 assuming none of the hits miss the target. That's not very impressive in AoE terms considering it does not damage the actual target.

Do you actually watch gvgs?

wuzzman · Nov 16, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

didn't Ensign promote the destruction of one of the main warrior deterrents in the game? If you want to know why there are little alternatives in this game, then the fact is simple, players deal with what they want to deal with and remove as many alternatives to keep the already approved build.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 28, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

So with 10 channeling as you say, that's 4 * 35 damage =140 assuming none of the hits miss the target. That's not very impressive in AoE terms considering it does not damage the actual target. In reality they only things going for it are the 5sec recharge and 5 energy cost. There are many non-elite AoE options that do damage the actual target.

What I like about splinter is it pushes people out of wards and choke points when they see splinter damage hitting them, that's better for game play. I personally hate the concept of wards/wells/spirit camping, or anything that restricts mobility.

WOW... It's hard to believe anyone can't see the benefits of splinter over other AoEs. I'll list what is great about it for ya.

1)This AoE damage is renewable every 5 seconds and can be easily kept up on at least two targets.

2)The AoE damage is MOBILE AOE DAMAGE!!! You can't simply move out of the area of effect like with most AoEs. The AoE chases you...

3)The target is getting hit with damage, just because the splinter itself isn't hitting it, the person doing the attack to trigger the skill is. This means your main claim fails hard!

4)To add insult to injury, [skill=text]splinter weapon[/skill]is almost always combined with [skill=text]ancestors' rage[/skill]. If you can't tell by hovering over the text (because it is pre-buff/nerf...) ITS AN AOE LIGHTNING ORB THAT CAN'T BE DODGED - 5 ENERGY - 1/4 SEC CAST - 8 RECHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!

5)This means that ancestors' rage is basically unpreventable... It is vertually un-interuptable (being 1/4 cast and a skill (not a spell) so the cast time can't be increased. It is 5 energy so it is no strain on a caster at all. It can be used on spikes every 8 seconds (which means every spike).

Now tell me that using splinter and ancestors' isn't good!

Bankai · Nov 28, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill]

We already knew that splinter weapon is awesome.

ensoriki · Nov 28, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Splinter can easily be kept up on about 3 targets... 4 if you precast it on everyone =P

Khasar · Nov 28, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Ancestors is ok and splinter weapon is pretty good.

[skill]Mark of Pain[/skill] is similar in that the AoE "chases" and it doesnt affect the target except that it does a hell of alot more damage to nearby foes if used correctly. I've never heard anyone complain about MoP being imba before.

erk · Nov 29, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Splinter can easily be kept up on about 3 targets... 4 if you precast it on everyone =P

Only if the targets are not hitting anythng!

A warrior in frenzy will use up the splinter well before it recharges, let alone two warriors continuously training on targets, or a single Dervish. Splinter is good in choke points, but it doesn't increase the Warrior's spike on his target, Nightmare Weapon or even Judges Insight are better for that.

Ancestors on the other hand can chip in on the spike even if the Warrior is blinded/blocked which is very nice because it's easy to cast on a frontline party member and cheap. Not quite as powerful as say Lightning Orb on an Ele's spike, but good if you need the Rit for other things like running.

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Im thinking with 1 of those weaponing/spell recharge things

like quickening weapon =P

TheOneMephisto · Nov 29, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khasar

Ancestors is ok and splinter weapon is pretty good.

[skill]Mark of Pain[/skill] is similar in that the AoE "chases" and it doesnt affect the target except that it does a hell of alot more damage to nearby foes if used correctly. I've never heard anyone complain about MoP being imba before.

Except Mark sucks.

It's a hex, which means it can be removed, and it has a 20 sec recharge, along with being in a really crappy line that no one uses on a character that nobody brings. You can't even make an effective flag runner with a necro.

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

mark would be fine if.

Hex removal wasn't as common as breathing.
20 second recharge wasn't there...
Better in Soul reaping line >.>

wuzzman · Nov 29, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Necros can't spam 5 energy AOE damage buff while packing resto heals that push health bars up by factors of 100+. But meh, if you think about it the Rit is very vunerable for various reasons.

Yichi · Nov 29, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Necros can't spam 5 energy AOE damage buff while packing resto heals that push health bars up by factors of 100+. But meh, if you think about it the Rit is very vunerable for various reasons.

Yeah I guess youre right. the 94398657346 of these necro healers in HA must be wrong.....