Curse

Bankai · Oct 16, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

No Melee counters in a metagame with a lot of warriors?

Sounds like IWAY all over again.

Master Ketsu · Oct 16, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

No Melee counters in a metagame with a lot of warriors?

Sounds like IWAY all over again.

Actually, Back in IWAY classic it could generally be countered with a single cripshot ranger since their condition removal was crap.

( not 8v1 of course, but you get the idea )

Bankai · Oct 16, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

True. It was also partly because people didn't know how to defend against IWAY very good in the beginning. But I'm also sure that there are plenty of options to counter the current melee-heavy metagame that nobody really thinks of.

The only difference is that current 'balanced' teams have much better defense, and therefore better condition and hex removal. So you can no longer just go for their orders necro.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 16, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Izzy guested for us in GvG couple of weekends ago, when he was bored on his Paris trip, and he played fine. Ran a Me/Rt and he certainly knew how to GvG.

'us' being a guild that's not on the ladder? I've played against Izzy several times, and he's definately not an amazing player, and afaik he hasn't played any GvG at respectable level recently.

pkodyssey · Oct 16, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Well stated Ensign. I think that Anet is reacting instead of acting with regard to balance. Almost every skill in this game needs adjustment. The massive influx of skills to the game with little or no regard for the skills that came before is where this problem lies.

Speaking from a PvP stand point, there should be more then one way to do it. I would love to go "in" knowing that I couldnt possibly cover every contingency with just 8 players, That would be truly remarkable. Currently, any of the top players in the game could go into HA and own with any gimmick build. However, the continually successful teams run balanced builds and those builds consist of, mostly, very specific skill sets. Why because they are the ones that work. Your doing it wrong if you dont play the Anet induced metagame.

Now PvE is totally screwed, can you say Ursan blessing, to name only one of dozens of WAY overpowered skills. WTH is anet doing. That skill is so out there that it is ridiculous. Come one of the most elite areas in the game is a mockery with just that one skill. Play any mission in Tyria with prophecies only skills and it has good balance. Now add faction and nightfall skills. We rolled the entire fire island chain last night in record time. Our single monk barely worked do to the Ritualist hero spamming away. The existing mobs would keep me coming back for more with a simple adjustment to skill sets. I know, I know not everyone has all 3 campaigns. Change SoC so that you cant cap skills outside there respective campaign. Whatever...

This game could keep me going for years with some basic changes and with a SERIOUS look at skills. I trully appreciate posts like this and players like Ensign that grasp the fine details in ways that I overlook.

Thanks for the great post. Now Anet learn your lesson FINALLY!

Cass · Oct 17, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

...

Speaking from a PvP stand point, there should be more then one way to do it. I would love to go "in" knowing that I couldnt possibly cover every contingency with just 8 players, That would be truly remarkable. Currently, any of the top players in the game could go into HA and own with any gimmick build. However, the continually successful teams run balanced builds and those builds consist of, mostly, very specific skill sets. Why because they are the ones that work. Your doing it wrong if you dont play the Anet induced metagame.

lol what?

Actually a good team can go play HA and win pretty consistently with a 'non-meta' balanced build. Of course, you can't push this too far; if there are hundreds of hexes flying around, then having just two holy veils will quickly become problematic. But in this example adding a single convert hexes could go a long way of solving that. But the strength of a good team is in their ability to overcome a build/map disadvantage.

Quote:

Now PvE is totally screwed, can you say Ursan blessing, to name only one of dozens of WAY overpowered skills. WTH is anet doing. That skill is so out there that it is ridiculous. Come one of the most elite areas in the game is a mockery with just that one skill. Play any mission in Tyria with prophecies only skills and it has good balance. Now add faction and nightfall skills. We rolled the entire fire island chain last night in record time. Our single monk barely worked do to the Ritualist hero spamming away. The existing mobs would keep me coming back for more with a simple adjustment to skill sets. I know, I know not everyone has all 3 campaigns. Change SoC so that you cant cap skills outside there respective campaign. Whatever...

This is the PvP forum.

Bankai · Oct 17, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

Now PvE is totally screwed, can you say Ursan blessing, to name only one of dozens of WAY overpowered skills. WTH is anet doing. That skill is so out there that it is ridiculous. Come one of the most elite areas in the game is a mockery with just that one skill. Play any mission in Tyria with prophecies only skills and it has good balance. Now add faction and nightfall skills. We rolled the entire fire island chain last night in record time. Our single monk barely worked do to the Ritualist hero spamming away. The existing mobs would keep me coming back for more with a simple adjustment to skill sets. I know, I know not everyone has all 3 campaigns. Change SoC so that you cant cap skills outside there respective campaign. Whatever...

You just negated your whole post by saying this.

pkodyssey · Oct 17, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

This is the PvP forum.

Sorry, just caught up in the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

You just negated your whole post by saying this.

Please explain, even though this is a PvP forum.

Nurse With Wound · Oct 17, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

We do not discuss PVE here. Thank you.

Btw this is PVP forum. We don't care about PVE here. So don't even start this pkodyssey. Do not derail the thread, thanks.

tricolorsp · Oct 17, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

'us' being a guild that's not on the ladder? I've played against Izzy several times, and he's definately not an amazing player, and afaik he hasn't played any GvG at respectable level recently.

i gonna have to disagree with you.... he isnt a top player but i remeber when he was in Fianna in lag/out/tag alliance and they were top100(or close to it) and raped a couple top100 guilds, back in the day where there were good teams on the ladder. so even not being a top20/30 player, he is still better then 90% of people that makes advices on skill balances....

and grammar is ftl

Thom Bangalter · Oct 17, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

I remember him guesting for LS. It was pretty fun to ice prison him.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 18, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricolorsp

he is still better then 90% of people that makes advices on skill balances...

Well yeah, but that doesn't exactly make him good, anyway afaik he hasnt played gvg at a reasonable level recently.

Every skill balance seems to have a couple of completely random changes.

tricolorsp · Oct 18, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well yeah, but that doesn't exactly make him good, anyway afaik he hasnt played gvg at a reasonable level recently.

Every skill balance seems to have a couple of completely random changes.

but he is getting better.....none of the last updates buffed otyugh cry :]

Dzan · Oct 18, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricolorsp

but he is getting better.....none of the last updates buffed otyugh cry :]

Or Dwarven Battle Stance.

BlackSephir · Oct 18, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Or shitload of other crappy skills that should be buffed/changed so we would at last see some diversity.
Balthazar's Pendulum ftw, Wasterl's Collapse ftw!

erk · Oct 18, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Every skill balance seems to have a couple of completely random changes.

Perhaps you should read Izzy's notes on the reasons for skill balance changes:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Isaiah_Cartwright

Kyp Jade · Oct 18, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

***
Keystone Revert: There was an insane build which could lock down 3 elites and throw a 24s Signet of Distraction every 5s.
***

You mean you DIDNT see this comming? ok...

***
Shield of Regen Revert: There was too many 3 monk teams happening because of this change so I reverted it.
***

Something wrong with 3 monk lines? Whats so IMBA about taking three monks?

***
Paradox: The KD spam on a few builds with this skill where pretty insane, as well as some issues with Shadow Form guys and lack of viable counters with Chilblains nerf, in the end I like the diversity this skill brings by making some builds work, but there was some abusive behavior as a result hopefully those builds still work but are a little more balanced.
***

Starting down the right path, now remove the fast cast and everyone will be happy. And please dont say things like hopefully, it does not inspire much confidence in the community in your ability to keep the game competitive.

Apok Omen · Oct 18, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Well, at least his ideas aren't blind(mostly)... Maybe we have to give him a new seeing-eye dog...

yum · Oct 18, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy

Keystone Revert: There was an insane build which could lock down 3 elites and throw a 24s Signet of Distraction every 5s.

Shield of Regen Revert: There was too many 3 monk teams happening because of this change so I reverted it.

Paradox: The KD spam on a few builds with this skill where pretty insane, as well as some issues with Shadow Form guys and lack of viable counters with Chilblains nerf, in the end I like the diversity this skill brings by making some builds work, but there was some abusive behavior as a result hopefully those builds still work but are a little more balanced. ~Izzy @-(UTC)

Seems to me that he has not changed his mindset, and the nerf of DP is just something against his will.

Anyway, thank for seeing things that everyone else sees. At least you guys take out your blindfolds for a moment since the release of rit.

Riotgear · Oct 18, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Logic would seem to dictate that the best way to issue buffs would be to find reasonable play styles that don't have enough support to be run due to falling out of sync with other abilities, finding their weak points, and giving them a push. Logic would also seem to dictate that a large number of godawful abilities are godawful because the entire concept behind them is terrible.

Instead, people want godawful skills buffed first, without any real objective for their use, because more skills that are usable, regardless of how, is automatically better.

Can someone please explain the thought process behind this to me?