Curse

JR · Jan 24, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Then I presume you would agree that RoF is nothing but a panic-button skill for when you screw up your preprots? Either way, the quoted statement above is false.

I wasn't actually arguing with you at all. I thought your evaluation of RoF was quite accurate, if not a bit harsh.

TimTimTimma · Jan 25, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

RoF is nothing but a panic-button skill for when you screw up your preprots

100% agree.

12 chars

Morgoth the dark · Jan 25, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

Is RoF on your skill bar? It is on mine. If it is on your skill bar, when do you use it? I use it during spikes. I normally cast something along the lines of RoF, WoH, and Guardian. I win a lot. My experience is that RoF is a good way to delay spikes.

If you use it during a spike, you are probably a bad monk. Becuase if you have RoF in your bar, there must be SB as well. And if you dont have SB, there must be infuse. And if you preffer using RoF instead of those two skills... gg at monking.

RoF isnt bad skill overall but same works out for patience spirit.

erk · Feb 05, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

I have seen Patient Spirit recently in 4v4 on WoH bars where the Monk doesn't really have to worry about another Monk over healing or major spike catching, but is more often under pressure keep healing whilst WoH is Diverted/Humilitied/recharging etc. Not sure I would bother carrying it myself, but it's out there and getting used a fair bit now in TA. It's better heal than Kiss, Orison, more energy efficient than Heal Other, and more spamable than Sig of Rejuv. I can't see it being much use in GvG or HA, where something like infuse would be way more practical on a healing bar. I am trying it atm on heroes to see if the are any good with it, I don't HvH myself but still curious to see if the AI uses it effectively.

TheHaxor · Feb 05, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I have seen Patient Spirit recently in 4v4 on WoH bars where the Monk doesn't really have to worry about another Monk over healing or major spike catching, but is more often under pressure keep healing whilst WoH is Diverted/Humilitied/recharging etc. Not sure I would bother carrying it myself, but it's out there and getting used a fair bit now in TA. It's better heal than Kiss, Orison, more energy efficient than Heal Other, and more spamable than Sig of Rejuv. I can't see it being much use in GvG or HA, where something like infuse would be way more practical on a healing bar. I am trying it atm on heroes to see if the are any good with it, I don't HvH myself but still curious to see if the AI uses it effectively.

Your post is completely true if you wish to ignore the fact that it takes 2 seconds to trigger.

NamelessBeauty · Feb 05, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I already ask for a buff in Patient Spirit but it did not go well.

Anyway, you can not compare RoF with P-Spirit lol.
1st: 1 is prot the other is heal. Different atribute.
2nd: 1 is almost instant in effect, the other is 2s taking effect.

Anyway, if you are playing a real monk specificly heal monk. P-spirit is just a bad skill lol! In 2sec, you would have cast 2 spells or more already (40/40 set).Yes more energy but save the team better. But if you use it in other prof. It's acutally pretty good. Not gonna lie lol. I used it for my W/Mo and it works well.

Go Stroke Your E-Penis Somewhere Else.

JR · Feb 06, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

I already ask for a buff in Patient Spirit but it did not go well.

Anyway, you can not compare RoF with P-Spirit lol.
1st: 1 is prot the other is heal. Different atribute.
2nd: 1 is almost instant in effect, the other is 2s taking effect.

Anyway, if you are playing a real monk specificly heal monk. P-spirit is just a bad skill lol! In 2sec, you would have cast 2 spells or more already (40/40 set).Yes more energy but save the team better. But if you use it in other prof. It's acutally pretty good. Not gonna lie lol. I used it for my W/Mo and it works well.

Go Stroke Your E-Penis Somewhere Else.

I think you mistook this forum for The Campfire.

elektra_lucia · Feb 06, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Rof to me is also "a skill when you mess up pre prot (whoever said that is a genius)". I personally think the skill is EXTREMELY over rated. I'd find more fun things to run on the skill bar. It's other nice use is covering an enchantment. That is actually my favourite use for it (lol).

Patient spirit...

Well obviously they're in different attributes. The delay between rof could be that you won't get hit for a bit and only the divine favour will heal on either up until that point. It is what it is. The skill is easy to read.

Quote:

I find that the skill description is very interesting. A heal after 2 seconds of roughly 140ish is quite good. This skill reminds me of RoF in which healing is generally delayed.

Despite my above comment... You should not really look at 'rof in which healing is generally delayed'. My point here is, the idea of it is to negate damage. Sure the outcome is it will heal but if people stop looking at rof as a way to 'heal' and a way to 'negate' damage (along with all other prot skills). I think this will change the mindset that rof is such a great skill...

Obviously there is times it can be great, don't get me wrong/misquote or selective quote.

Interesting argument. Obviously patient spirit has some nice things about it. Dwayna for example. A strange healing skill. I quite like it. It's original. The two seconds, well you can knock a bit off of that because the cast time of an equivalent skill is longer.

Quote:

Anyway, if you are playing a real monk specificly heal monk. P-spirit is just a bad skill lol! In 2sec, you would have cast 2 spells or more already (40/40 set).Yes more energy but save the team better.

No. You would save a player better, then your energy might drop out and your team would suffer. Who's to say you can't use something like dwayna's kiss? Again, not saying there isn't other better options, but your argument that it's bad is a bit poor.

Elu Arina · Feb 07, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

The only reason its still used because of its one saving grace: its speed. It can buy time to cast an actually powerful spell you normally wouldnt have time for. It can save those who otherwise cant be saved. Other than that, its trash, and as long as you dont find yourself surprised by a spike you didnt see, you shouldnt need or want to cast RoF.

You contradict yourself. "It can save those who otherwise cant be saved" but "its trash". Pre protting can make use of RoF less necessary, but it doesn't remove the it entirely. Top guilds even use RoF quite frequently. Guild Wars keeps track of skill usage for monthly tournaments if you wanna contest that. Go look. If RoF is on a monk's bar, it's one of the most used.

A lot of people seem to undervalue the role that RoF plays in a monk bar. They say that RoF is necessary but mediocre. That simply doesn't make sense. You cannot call a skill that you always run mediocre and not sound contradictory. How many other skills in the game are deemed so necessary that people don't run builds without them? You could probably count them on a single hand. These skills are not mediocre, they in fact represent the best skills the game has to offer.

In this case, RoF is run on virtually every monk bar. The reason is because it is an excellent skill. Its healing numbers aren't very impressive, no, but you don't use RoF to heal. You don't even use RoF to catch spikes. You use it to buy time. Time is a precious commodity in Guild Wars. The reason pre-prots are important is because, once a spike has begun, there is no time left to react. To deal with this, you predict spikes before they happen and act accordingly. RoF allows you more time to deal with spikes. In effect, for 5 energy you purchase the time you need to save a target. That's not mediocre, that's an amazing skill. Period.

JR · Feb 07, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu Arina

You contradict yourself. "It can save those who otherwise cant be saved" but "its trash". Pre protting can make use of RoF less necessary, but it doesn't remove the it entirely. Top guilds even use RoF quite frequently. Guild Wars keeps track of skill usage for monthly tournaments if you wanna contest that. Go look. If RoF is on a monk's bar, it's one of the most used.

What he means is:

In pure theory if everyone was a perfect Monk then nobody would need RoF. Pre-prots would always land, and you would safely be able to use efficient heals and better small prots to minmize damage and top off bars. In this situation RoF is trash.

In practice players are human and make mistakes, which is why RoF serves a usefull purpose.

The Way Out · Feb 07, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

If you use it during a spike, you are probably a bad monk. Becuase if you have RoF in your bar, there must be SB as well. And if you dont have SB, there must be infuse. And if you preffer using RoF instead of those two skills... gg at monking.

RoF isnt bad skill overall but same works out for patience spirit.

I'm not going into all these scenarios with people today. RoF stays on my skill bar in PvE because it is effective and I use it every single time I PvP.

This isn't my skillbar

[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]

However, RoF is on my skillbar and I do use. I like having it as part of a set. It is not the backbone of my skillbar, however, it is part of. I hope you can understand that.

Shadow of Silence · Feb 07, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

The only thing I really use P-Spirit for is a cover for enchantments like Prot Spirit. P-Spirit pretty much negates a Shatter Enchant and is easily reapplied.

ShadowsRequiem · Feb 07, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

What he means is:

In pure theory if everyone was a perfect Monk then nobody would need RoF. Pre-prots would always land, and you would safely be able to use efficient heals and better small prots to minmize damage and top off bars. In this situation RoF is trash.

In practice players are human and make mistakes, which is why RoF serves a usefull purpose.

I concur : D

Dominator1370 · Feb 08, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu Arina

In effect, for 5 energy you purchase the time you need to save a target.

Right. RoF buys you time. It basically says "next time you get hit, we're going to negate that damage, and maybe heal you a bit on top of it". It's not hard to imagine a situation where you might wish you had that on your bar.

Now, whoever is trying to make this comparison, here's where it breaks down: with RoF, the healing is only delayed until your target gets hit (read: until your target needs it). With Patient Spirit, the healing is delayed 2 seconds, whether your target needs it or not. By that time, your target could easily be dead or just as easily be already healed. Let me reiterate, because this is important: RoF triggers when it's needed, Patient Spirit triggers when it triggers.

Now, I understand that no one would normally want to be forced to use RoF. However, as we've established, RoF is good for buying yourself time that you wouldn't have had otherwise to deal with a situation more effectively. On the other side of the coin, I can't really imagine a scenario where Patient Spirit would be useful. For starters, the only way it can be useful is if you predict where damage is going to occur. If you're doing that anyway, why not just pre-prot?

Byron · Feb 15, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I've seen patient spirit work well when there is a lot of midline defensive support. Otherwise, its not very good, for reasons stated.

It seems to work well on pre-prots tbh. When expecting a shatter or removal, it covers the big prots and also heals. If no shatter/removal occurs, it heals some afterspike damage. You have to be a good monk for that to be relevant, however, considering timing and all that.

newbie_of_doom · Feb 18, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

The 2 second delay is just awful. It won't work against spikes and vs pressure sig of reju would be much better since its a free 71/142 heal at 14 HP.

And RoF is just uber :X

steel singer · Feb 18, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

But against what spikes do you use RoF?
Guardian/spirit bond is enough mostly..

In Ra/Ta I use patient instead of RoF.. Good teams wand, and if your RoF catches a wand, then you screwed your 5 energy..

TheOneMephisto · Feb 18, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel singer

But against what spikes do you use RoF?
Guardian/spirit bond is enough mostly..

If you were a perfect monk then you could always save with guardian/spirit bond and never use rof.

However, the fact that everyone makes mistakes makes RoF good for the fact that it has the speed, availability, and flexibility to give you a second chance when you mess up.

Seraphim of Chaos · Feb 28, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I'm bumping this up, because due to the new HC TA meta I'm sure people have different opinions or something new to bring to the table.

The Way Out · Feb 28, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel singer

But against what spikes do you use RoF?
Guardian/spirit bond is enough mostly..

In Ra/Ta I use patient instead of RoF.. Good teams wand, and if your RoF catches a wand, then you screwed your 5 energy..

I like your point about wanding.... the concept is totally lost on too many people.