Curse

Elu Arina · Oct 19, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

The meta is just defensive because defensive builds are by nature more forgiving of mistakes. And once someone starts the trend, it'll make defensive builds more and more viable and at some point even necessary. It's essentially what happened a few months back with GvG and Blockway. Nothing really happened in the matches and ultimately the winner was whoever made the least mistakes. The monk bars are just a part of that so in some sense, this thread isn't necessarily about the gayness of that, but about the gayness of builds in TA in general. Even with that said, I still think it's kind of moot point. Monk bars in GvG haven't really changed since they changed LoD. There are a few more options, but virtually every competitive team runs an RC and either a WoH or HB. TA is the same in that any team running something not gimmicky (which I understand is rather subjective in TA), is running a WoH monk. That's just the way the class works in GW.

I think the fact that a discussion like this has come about again though just highlights the failings of Anet. If they really payed attention, we wouldn't be stuck with a shit meta right now. To make it worse, and to further highlight why Anet fails, I don't think anyone here seriously expects it to change anytime soon.

Hundbert · Oct 19, 2008, 12:53 PM // 12:53

It is like True Wuv says it is. You have to beat all the idiots running their rao shit, the shove spikes and the hexways + you have to be able to win vs balanced.
So if you wanna play a build that requires more than iq 50 you play balanced.

Post your improved version of balanced if you are whining about it's too defensive.
Some people actually don't wanna run builds that a retarded donkey could play.

And there isn't much choice for monks either. You have to run a woh monk that can handle all the gay shit in ta and also not fail vs balance. So you are bound to run a woh bar.

Elu Arina: You are right that anet is to blame for this and no i don't expect many changes to this meta

X Cytherea X · Oct 19, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

imo a "user-friendly" build that achieves victory through direct confrontation and annihilation... is more honorable than a "skill-full" build that plays like desperate pansies. just imo.

i remember beating ta balance with an ra team... we had me on my patented Brutal Stampede sin, a wounding derv, a weapon/resto rit, and a fortress monk. we won by stomping the nec repeatedly. and we had a lot of cleanup.

someday i might streamline it into a full build and find ppl to run it if i cba.

Hundbert · Oct 19, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Yes everyone should play thumpway in gvg too since that is more honorable.

Seraphim of Chaos · Oct 19, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

Yes everyone should play thumpway in gvg too since that is more honorable.

e-honr 4lyfe!!!

sLiceR · Oct 20, 2008, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

i remember beating ta balance with an ra team... we had me on my patented Brutal Stampede sin, a wounding derv, a weapon/resto rit, and a fortress monk. we won by stomping the nec repeatedly. and we had a lot of cleanup.

So you think TA meta is too defensive, yet you propose 2 healers as a new less defensive alternative?

urania · Oct 20, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

with a bit of luck we might see a nerf to Wail. *hopes for the best*

Hundbert · Oct 20, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

I think it's enough if it gets disabled for 10-12 secs when you use it (not allowing it to recharge any faster with half recharge items) much like the dervish avatars.

Happy Karla?

Krill · Oct 20, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

imo a "user-friendly" build that achieves victory through direct confrontation and annihilation... is more honorable than a "skill-full" build that plays like desperate pansies.

How many times do people need to explain to you why TA "balanced" is the way it is?

urania · Oct 21, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

I think it's enough if it gets disabled for 10-12 secs when you use it (not allowing it to recharge any faster with half recharge items) much like the dervish avatars.

Happy Karla?

yup yup. =P

even though i wouldnt mind a bit higher recharge or/and a real energy cost too.

Seraphim of Chaos · Oct 21, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Make WoD 15 energy. See how many people start using GoLE on necro again.

X Cytherea X · Oct 21, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sLiceR

So you think TA meta is too defensive, yet you propose 2 healers as a new less defensive alternative?

the build i envision has 2 pure killers than dont lineback and the rit also has offensive weapon buffs so yeah

Hundbert · Oct 24, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Omg just stop posting X Cytherea X. Take your thumpers with killer instinct elsewhere.. Please?

Chaos Rofl Copter · Oct 24, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

the build i envision has 2 pure killers than dont lineback and the rit also has offensive weapon buffs so yeah

That in fact takes no skill and a lot of button mashing on your so called "pure killers" ***/cough pve scrub***. Line backing takes more skill than that of mashing buttons on 1 target in my opinion. Then again, it's impossible to do anything else on a war THAN line back in TA, especially with the fortress monk builds out there.

Basically, your saying:

Hey guess what, I'm going to change the current shitway meta!

I'm gunna take this build (insert smiter bar here) and replace it with a rit that spams weapons and heals!

Oh wait, that was already done? Also I would like to add, that's a very unstable unbalanced build thats not much better than playing thumpers and axe rangers.

urania · Oct 26, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

Line backing takes more skill than that of mashing buttons on 1 target in my opinion. Then again, it's impossible to do anything else on a war THAN line back in TA, especially with the fortress monk builds out there.

permanent linebacking is what scrubs do. its down there with the button mash, trust me..

Holz · Oct 29, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I'd like to get an answer from experienced people like urania.

Isn't it 110% true, that the primary reason for monkbashing is because either your team has a bad build or your players are plain bad, and they don't understand that the fact that your healing abilities rely on their killing abilities? In RA, I get bashed SO many times, by people saying I 'need to heal'. I keep them alive for multiple minutes, obviously they CAN'T kill enough of our opponents to stop them from killing us. How can a monk do better than just keeping his team alive as much as possible? At a certain point you will run out of energy, every (good) monk does. But if you're playing against N/Me SS/SV, a good frontliner, a proper monk and another caster or melee, who finish your team within the minute, how can you prevent this? Even the best monks can stop this from happening right?

That's my overall problem with monking. People keep telling you're BAD, while they suck themselves and can't pressure the other team correctly which results in you and other teammates being pressured/spiked which requires you to use energy. Energy runs out after a while.
Do you understand my point? I think monks are even a little overrated, a GOOD team with a GOOD build with GOOD players and a GOOD monk will outperform 95% of the teams, even if those teams have top10 guild monks in them, imo. What do you think?

Teh Jace · Oct 30, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holz

I'd like to get an answer from experienced people like urania.

You are a funny one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holz

the rest...

Sry but check the section u are in. It is called Team Arenas. U will always have warrior, ranger, necro and monk and u will always fight the endless rows of guys with feral pets. Enjoy ur staying!

Sun Fired Blank · Oct 30, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Your question isn't entirely obvious, nor is your intent. As I understand it, however, you're angry that people don't understand how monks operate; your team is largely responsible for constructive action, and you are largely responsible for catalyzating that action. One defining example of this relationship is veil work, and it's one of the reasons that Karla (urania) is frankly one of the best arena monks in the game; her veil work is probably the best of any monk in the format.

RA is a fairly bad reference as players are largely bad. How many monks try and veil their entire group before they engage? How many rangers prep and stride out of the gate? How many frontliners bother to quarterknock or quarterint? How many casters bother to swap cleanly from shield to efficiency set for almost every cast? How many players bother to prekite using their mouse?

Your job is not merely to sustain people, your job is to enable people to function; you prot and you heal and you remove DW so they remain alive, but you also maintain veil so that rangers can stop hexes, and you remove hexes and blind / weakness quickly so that your frontliners can kill stuff.

You are right in that your energy is finite and that in arenas you can be outbuilt rather easily, but you can only do your job. Use your energy constructively until you're at 0 / 72, maintain veils constructively, don't pre-emptively use stances, prot effectively (if you have prot), remove hexes and conditions quickly before they get covered, etc. Once you hit 0 / 72 you've done everything that you can.

But on the topic of people being bad, my best advice to you is to simply assume that you suck. In my opinion, most arena players suck, and I don't particularly consider myself a prodigy either. Frankly speaking ,there are maybe a handful of good arena players, most of whom are g7 or higher; I can probably count all of those players on two hands, and maybe half those people bother to post here. Start paying attention to all the little details. Even angry RA shitters occasionally have a point.

Hundbert · Oct 30, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Teh jace still bothers to post. Even when he quit gw right?

Teh Jace · Oct 30, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I did but not gw guru