Curse

swordfisher · Oct 15, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Scythes do big damage, potentially to multiple targets in a single swing. They have the highest max damage of any weapon, ranging from 9-41 (next closest is the hammer, at 19-35). High max damage means huge crits, and these huge crits kill.
I have a radical suggestion, one I believe will bring scythes into line with other weapons.

Scythes do not automatically crit against fleeing foes. (PvP only)

They still have their inherent critical chance (something like 20% at 12 attrib), and still have a load of big +damage attack skills; they are not in any way toothless. But instead of doing their biggest damage to a foe who's trying to get away, they are most effective against people who are out of position, bunched, or just clueless.

I think this is the simplest way of reducing beastly damage output without going through and actually messing with numbers across the board.

Reverend Dr · Oct 15, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

There has never been a problem with dervish, assasin, or ranger skills, despite people's complaining otherwise; the root problem has always lay in scythe's damage.

Combine the higher crit range with the fact that every single followup has a cast time (making IAS pointless) make them a spike only character. And Izzy was wondering why so many builds were resorting to 3-2-1 spike so much.

Luminarus · Oct 15, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Scythes are a broken concept... need a complete overhaul.

Changing an ingrained game mechanic is not going to make them any less broken.

AnonTerror · Oct 15, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

If you have to 3-2-1 with a Derv, you're not playing it right. It's pretty hard to do that.

Dervishes are pressure orientated characters, they lack a meaningful spike because lack of a consistant KD and just generally how damn slow they are.

Div · Oct 15, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonTerror

If you have to 3-2-1 with a Derv, you're not playing it right. It's pretty hard to do that.

Dervishes are pressure orientated characters, they lack a meaningful spike because lack of a consistant KD and just generally how damn slow they are.

Wait what? rusrs that dervs don't spike?

Robster Lobster · Oct 15, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonTerror

If you have to 3-2-1 with a Derv, you're playing it right. It's pretty easy to do that.

Dervishes are spike orientated characters, they lack any meaningful pressure because lack of a consistant KD and just generally how damn slow they are.

Hey I fixed your post for you.

The only real exceptions are in builds where you want a very spammable Deep Wound like a hex build with one Physical, or in that old triple D/E build with Conjure and Strength stacking to give retarded damage and you just want the simplest possible frontliners to play in case you mess it up by being bad at warrior.

obsidian ectoplasm · Oct 15, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Wait what? rusrs that dervs don't spike?

I think he is trying to say when single, not a team spike, they cant spike as quickly as other class's but meh....they do it well enough for me

shoogi · Oct 15, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

yeah... well I have a better proposal- how about deleting fcking nightfail.

Izzy will rework every single skill in the game before he will touch the 'basic' values, weapon damage and speed included.

And even though its popularity decreased a bit, Wounding Strike is still one of the most broken skills in the game, if not the most broken (expert's dex being the main competition imo), so yeah, the scythe skills ARE a problem.

Krill · Oct 15, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

There has never been a problem with dervish, assasin, or ranger skills, despite people's complaining otherwise

Difficult to imagine a more hilariously incorrect statement.

keli · Oct 15, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

why do you want to nerf scythes? There are already a small number of dervishes in kamadan

DarkNecrid · Oct 15, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Difficult to imagine a more hilariously incorrect statement.

The Dervish's problem is his Scythe, the Assassin's balance problem is his crits, and Ranger's balance problem is his Expertise. Their skills are mostly fine, barring the retarded things that he wasn't talking about, but their primaries/weapon (in the case of dervs) are retarded and make their skillsets overpowered. They'd be pretty fine if these things weren't so dumb and just adjusted accordingly in most cases.

Byron · Oct 15, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Scythes were only a problem at vod. But they were a big problem; I'll give you that.

moriz · Oct 15, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

The Dervish's problem is his Scythe, the Assassin's balance problem is his crits, and Ranger's balance problem is his Expertise. Their skills are mostly fine, barring the retarded things that he wasn't talking about, but their primaries/weapon (in the case of dervs) are retarded and make their skillsets overpowered. They'd be pretty fine if these things weren't so dumb and just adjusted accordingly in most cases.

problem is that if you take away the scythe, dervishes will become utterly useless. that's basically what happens when the entire profession was created and balanced as suped-up mending wammos. their entire skillset consists of nothing except damage attacks and defensive spell buffs. no interrupts, no KDs, no disruption, no shutdown of any sort. they'll be completely useless without the big damage.

expertise is a different issue. ranger skills are balanced to have high energy costs to make them unwieldy on ranger secondaries, which expertise solves for primary rangers. this effectively makes them "ranger only" without actually hardcoding them for ranger only.

Michael805 · Oct 15, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

How to fix scythes:
2-3 Damage, and hits a maximum of 1 person at a time, and only 50% of the time.

Alleji · Oct 16, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I suggested changing the damage range on scythes a year ago.

Instead of 9-41, make it 15-35. Same DPS, less stupid crits.

lutz · Oct 22, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

This thread makes me wonder how much worse Guild Wars can get.

AnonTerror · Oct 22, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm

I think he is trying to say when single, not a team spike, they cant spike as quickly as other class's but meh....they do it well enough for me

Yeah I worded it totally wrong. You don't have to worry about the unpredictability of an adrenaline spike like with a warrior. Retarded crits make for some retarded clean spikes (Cial), but there is no bulls+unload out of nowhere in 2 second kind of deal. You just mash WS+Chilling Victory+whatever over and over on recharge when not in 3-2-1 mode.

scruffy · Oct 28, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

suggestion:

1)dervish avatars become permanent and are automatically applied at the start of the match.

2)dervish avatars are balanced around being up 24/7 with non-gimmicky effects that could actually be usefull in more situations than pure spike or steamroll builds

3)i think this would make the class better because each avatar would give the character a constant personality and role similar to warriors with different weapons having different roles rather than a gimmicky personality disorder type thing where half the time hes going to destroy you and for the other half hes doing nothing

example: (although these are probably bad)

avatar of grenth:

if you use an attack skill on a moving foe he becomes snared by 40% for 3 seconds, if he is already snared he is knocked down instead, if he is already knocked down he loses 1 enchantment.

avatar of melandru:

you can only have 1 condition on you at once, and it expires 33% faster than normal

Reverend Dr · Oct 29, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Difficult to imagine a more hilariously incorrect statement.

Perhaps if you didn't take it out of context you would realize it is a fairly truthful statement. The context of this thread is the scythe weapon. People have complained about how broken Melandru's, Wounding, Fox's Promise, Dark Apostacy, Escape, assassin's remedy, critical eye are, but the root problem lay with the huge crit damage from scythes.

How do you fix a problem like this that is so engrained into the class itself? I honestly don't know.

mcosad · Oct 31, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

[QUOTE=scruffy;4322713]suggestion:

1)dervish avatars become permanent and are automatically applied at the start of the match.[QUOTE]

Doesn't that imply that in pvp dervs have one special avatar ability, permanently, unremovable, that no other class has access to? The OP was talking about lowering scythe crit damage. I don't think it's wise to just ignore that issue, and then suggest making imbatars permanent as well!