Curse

Div · Nov 15, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

With skills like energy burn and ether feast, the mesmer actually GAINS something from the warrior's energy bar

1. Did someone just suggest to eburn a warrior when he can just hit once and get his energy back? Especially when a mesmer has much better targets to eburn?

2. Did someone just suggest...ether feast?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

Dam wrong you can run out of energy with WE on your bar

If you're terrible at the game. What, are you running meteor shower or something?

Quote:

WE is just offense, it lacks defense, messing the warrior up?

What warrior bar brings defense? Defy pain warriors? lol

WE is strong because of the buff to power attack and the fact no one really splits anymore, so utility on both warriors is not necessary. I might not say completely OP, but it has the same brainless spam-damage feel as the conjure-wounding strike dervishes from a few months back.

urania · Nov 15, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If you're terrible at the game. What, are you running meteor shower or something?

wtf divine, forgot about Spirit shackles???!!!!

oh wait, the warr can still pew pew u with their auto attacks cuz of their imba high rank in weapon mastery...bloody hell.

Magikarp · Nov 15, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

1. Did someone just suggest to eburn a warrior when he can just hit once and get his energy back? Especially when a mesmer has much better targets to eburn?

2. Did someone just suggest...ether feast?

If you're terrible at the game. What, are you running meteor shower or something?

What warrior bar brings defense? Defy pain warriors? lol

WE is strong because of the buff to power attack and the fact no one really splits anymore, so utility on both warriors is not necessary. I might not say completely OP, but it has the same brainless spam-damage feel as the conjure-wounding strike dervishes from a few months back.

ok ok, I think the guy gets it..

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 15, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Sure there are counters, like some have mentioned spirit shackles. This may be fine in smaller formats but in GvG I haven't seen any heavy hex builds being run ever since they reworked the NPC's and Guild Lord walking during VOD. You'll never be able to force an 8v8 battle against hexes for the most part nowadays and certain templates will just split off and pewpew some archers

. Oh and the Esurge or eburn thing is kinda funny, it would never hinder the WE bar, and of course these 2 skills would be best off being used during a spike on said warrior.

AKB48 · Nov 15, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If you're terrible at the game. What, are you running meteor shower or something?

Oh yeah I'm terrible at the game.......and NOOOOOO I don't run meteor shower, I run Meteor Storm

Way to go Moddy, just take my post in pieces, its how the media trash talk people to death.....by taking a piece, rather than the entire thing into context.

Reverend Dr · Nov 15, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Its a warrior with only one adrenal skill, that has no energy management issues no matter how much it spams.

This is not what constitutes a warrior, this isn't what has constituted a warrior for nearly four years of guild wars. Through all of the horrible balance changes throughout the years, the one constant was the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing warrior. The game was built around warriors dealing damage, helping assist warriors dealing damage, and preventing warriors from dealing damage.

If you honestly think that there is nothing wrong with the warrior's endurance build, that there is nothing wrong with its extremely wide use, that there is nothing wrong with how much it can pressure, that there is nothing wrong with powercreeping something that has been the staple for 4 years, please, I urge you to never talk, discuss, or post about game balance.

Dmitri3 · Nov 15, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Its a warrior with only one adrenal skill, that has no energy management issues no matter how much it spams.

This is not what constitutes a warrior, this isn't what has constituted a warrior for nearly four years of guild wars. Through all of the horrible balance changes throughout the years, the one constant was the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing warrior. The game was built around warriors dealing damage, helping assist warriors dealing damage, and preventing warriors from dealing damage.

If you honestly think that there is nothing wrong with the warrior's endurance build, that there is nothing wrong with its extremely wide use, that there is nothing wrong with how much it can pressure, that there is nothing wrong with powercreeping something that has been the staple for 4 years, please, I urge you to never talk, discuss, or post about game balance.

This is forums and anyone can post his opinion even if he/she isn't experienced. That being said, you sir got one pathetic argument: "if you're not on my side, then go kill yourself". Would you do it? I doubt it.

Srly, all I ever see is QQ. Why? Because people can't change. Humans survived thousands of years by adapting to their changing environment yet they can't change one skill on their bar.

And no. All attackers are at some point turn into button smash. Sin? 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3...! Dervish? Paragons? Warriors? You smash buttons crazy, but you still gotta know when to use them and when not to use them.

People complain warriors turn into dervishes when they run WE. I really see no problem in that, as long as they sacrifice their elite for that.

Magikarp · Nov 15, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

This is forums and anyone can post his opinion even if he/she isn't experienced. That being said, you sir got one pathetic argument: "if you're not on my side, then go kill yourself". Would you do it? I doubt it.

Srly, all I ever see is QQ. Why? Because people can't change. Humans survived thousands of years by adapting to their changing environment yet they can't change one skill on their bar.

And no. All attackers are at some point turn into button smash. Sin? 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3...! Dervish? Paragons? Warriors? You smash buttons crazy, but you still gotta know when to use them and when not to use them.

People complain warriors turn into dervishes when they run WE. I really see no problem in that, as long as they sacrifice their elite for that.

/highfive

110% agree.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 15, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

This is forums and anyone can post his opinion even if he/she isn't experienced. That being said, you sir got one pathetic argument: "if you're not on my side, then go kill yourself". Would you do it? I doubt it.

Srly, all I ever see is QQ. Why? Because people can't change. Humans survived thousands of years by adapting to their changing environment yet they can't change one skill on their bar.

And no. All attackers are at some point turn into button smash. Sin? 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3...! Dervish? Paragons? Warriors? You smash buttons crazy, but you still gotta know when to use them and when not to use them.

People complain warriors turn into dervishes when they run WE. I really see no problem in that, as long as they sacrifice their elite for that.

This isn't about adapting. It's for the health of the game. You can be one of the nay sayers, sheep, take what's giving to you and suffer, fine by me. Why should we accept a beautiful game become more and more brainless with the promotion button mash mechanics? This ain't freaken Killer instinct.

Reverend Dr · Nov 15, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

The warrior has been the basis for Guild Wars balance for four years. I'm not QQing because I refuse to change, I'm pointing out that the change currently going on in sharp contrast to what has been the basis has been for four years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Adrenaline is resource only available to the warrior (and spearchuckers) to compensate for their slow energy gain. As such, I can only conclude that a warrior bar with only 1 adrenaline skill, and enough energy to spam everything on recharge, should just not exist.

Does this not bother you? Does this not make you think about it a little bit more?

No, because you are suggesting spirit shackles. Spirit shackles has been around for ages, has always been a huge shutdown to ranger and warriors, but never seen much play. Because it is trash outside of a hex stack. Keep talking you will sould like more of an idiot.

Quote:

You smash buttons crazy, but you still gotta know when to use them and when not to use them.

Is power attack/Prot strike recharged? Ok push button.
Is dismember charged? Ok push button.
Call spike? 3-2-1 push buttons (hint, while you are counting down power and prot will be recharged and unless you can't even hit c+space properly dismember will be charged)

Replacing a 4 year skill-required staple build for a slam down buttons as fast as you can build. This is what has happened. Before you respond and tell me WE is fine or I am a dick (I am, but before you respond), justify that replacement.

keli · Nov 15, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

This is forums and anyone can post his opinion even if he/she isn't experienced.

this is why this forum is pathetic

Tyla · Nov 15, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

A spammable chain with a near limitless energy supply shouldn't exist. Especially on a Warrior, who was meant to choose when to use adrenal skills at the right moments for maximum pressure and such. With Power Attack and Protectors' Strike able to be spammed on recharge, it lets you output your bar a lot without having many worries at all, whereas with adrenaline, you either use it at a wrong moment, don't get much out of it and have to recharge or use it correctly, score a kill or deal a large amount of pressure anyway. So much for so little.

Spirit Shackles is pathetic. It's already been said; powerful versus anything that attacks with energy-based skills, pathetic outside of hex stacking.

E-Denial? Nice joke, Warriors' Endurance will have the Warrior back into the picture of spamming skills within 2 hits.

I think enough has been said already. Given what's been said in favour of a Warriors' Endurance nerf, those who didn't accept won't accept no matter what. Heck, I don't even remember when Warriors were majorly imbalanced before Warriors' Endurance.

Edwards · Nov 15, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

You smash buttons crazy, but you still gotta know when to use them and when not to use them.

The problem is that with WE, you get way more chances to use them right, so it moves away from seizing the perfect opportunity to unload and score the kill, and more towards unloading every few seconds and waiting until you get lucky. Being able to spam so much makes it so that you score kills when your opponent makes a mistake, rather than when your opponent makes a mistake AND you capitalize on the opportunity.

Dmitri3 · Nov 16, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Reverend Dr, basically that's what scythe dervishes do and yet it still takes some skill to play it.

If you miss all your Bull's Strikes, your Prot Strikes are just there for faster attack speed, you attack protted targets, get spiked while you're in frenzy... WE will not help you in any way. Unloading adrenaline isn't much harder, it's doing all those things that makes you a good axe/sword warrior.

That being said, I am against WE nerf since it will lock warriors from being able to use daggers/scythe if they wish to do so, but Power Attack for example could stand to lose a few points of damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

this is why this forum is pathetic

No one is forcing you to stay.

Tyla · Nov 16, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Reverend Dr, basically that's what scythe dervishes do and yet it still takes some skill to play it.

Basic skill, which should be applied to all forms of play. Your chain is pretty much like a Wounding Strike chain except more spammable with the bigger burst of damage. You can unload it upfront and whenever because it's available every 3 seconds, which allows it to be brainlessly used. This doesn't mean to say a better player would take further advantage of this, however.

Quote:

If you miss all your Bull's Strikes, your Prot Strikes are just there for faster attack speed, you attack protted targets, get spiked while you're in frenzy... WE will not help you in any way. Unloading adrenaline isn't much harder, it's doing all those things that makes you a good axe/sword warrior.

Adrenaline is a pretty cool mechanic which forces you to choose the proper oppertunity to unload adrenaline. You screw it up, you deal less pressure with it and have to reload by hitting targets. You get it right, you get rewarded with more pressure or a successful spike. You can't just find a target at full adrenaline and hit the chain all of the time, because it results in a wasted chain which requires recharging. Energy skills, on the other hand don't. You can use them up front, and if they're spammable it makes it even easier to pressure.

|Readem| · Nov 16, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

Oh yeah I'm terrible at the game.......and NOOOOOO I don't run meteor shower, I run Meteor Storm

that is all I needed to see.

as for WE, it is bad for any sort of balanced meta-game. however, since euros like to spike (and are technically the only people left playing Guild Wars), then whatever, this skill is fine.

thanks to izzy, and some strong pew pew, guild wars is an exciting new game.

Magikarp · Nov 16, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Reverend Dr, basically that's what scythe dervishes do and yet it still takes some skill to play it.

If you miss all your Bull's Strikes, your Prot Strikes are just there for faster attack speed, you attack protted targets, get spiked while you're in frenzy... WE will not help you in any way. Unloading adrenaline isn't much harder, it's doing all those things that makes you a good axe/sword warrior.

That being said, I am against WE nerf since it will lock warriors from being able to use daggers/scythe if they wish to do so, but Power Attack for example could stand to lose a few points of damage.

No one is forcing you to stay.

What makes WE so much different than a WS derv? The warrior loses it's elite in order to create a more diverse form of play for those who get sick and tired of shock axing every day (which I see most of you haven't after 3+years...) Diversity is good, change is good, and WE is stopped just like ANY OTHER MELEE BUILD. If anything, more than some because of it's EXTREME predictability! "Here comes WE warrior... Diversions in 3..2..1.. there's power attack". The high fire rate makes it necro/VoR food, and overall, the level of qq here... oh wait..

nvm, it's Guru.. what was I thinking?

If people are losing that bad to a build with nearly no utility, no damage buff, no active skills, and limited field use, compared to actual good and scary warrior builds, then oh well imo.. learn how to play better, and stop trying to make some oddball explanation as to how in the secret codex of Guild Wars, there was a manuscript saying that all warriors must have long build-up adrenal bars and never be capable of using an attack series for on-call damage.

also, I don't see any complaints about RotN either.. An overlooked skill that imo is much better, seeing as warriors pack so much more utility in their adrenal moves ANYHOW.

I personally have played WE maybe 6 times since the buff, and really, I think it's a nice break for something like RA/AB, where a speedier attack set-up is more usable (like RotN <3), but I would NEVER compare it to something as classic as a BB War. The BB deals more damage, has more utility, more enemy pressure, and strikes way more fear and panic than something as goofy as WE. Sure, WE has stupid nice pressure, but the same thing is achieved when playing anything dervish, ESPECIALLY WOUNDING STRIKE.

Really, I think this debate all boils down to a bunch of old, spiteful players that are stuck in their ways about everything they started with years ago.... isn't that how gay marriage lost in Cali?

DarkNecrid · Nov 16, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Really, I think this debate all boils down to a bunch of old, spiteful players that are stuck in their ways about everything they started with years ago.... isn't that how gay marriage lost in Cali?

Wow, poking fun at homosexuals getting their marriage not recognized and it failing because the USA is so backwards to the rest of the world (I'm American too so.) and thinking that's amusing in some way? You're dumb, and I can't believe you think that's a respectable or cool thing to do in any way (or even VAGUELY amusing). To put (or hint that) the people in this topic on equal footing as homophobic Americans or Americans who refuse to let go of their religious beliefs for equality is nothing short of despicable.

Warrior's Endurance is dumb because Warrior's are balanced around Adrenaline, their energy based attacks are balanced around not being spammed on recharge. This is like if the Monk magically got a skill that made all their Spells cost Adrenaline. The Monk isn't balanced around the idea of getting Adrenaline, and the Warrior isn't balanced around the idea of having infinite energy (no class is.).

Magikarp · Nov 16, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Wow, poking fun at homosexuals getting their marriage not recognized and it failing because the USA is so backwards to the rest of the world (I'm American too so.) and thinking that's amusing in some way? You're dumb, and I can't believe you think that's a respectable or cool thing to do in any way (or even VAGUELY amusing). To put (or hint that) the people in this topic on equal footing as homophobic Americans or Americans who refuse to let go of their religious beliefs for equality is nothing short of despicable.

Warrior's Endurance is dumb because Warrior's are balanced around Adrenaline, their energy based attacks are balanced around not being spammed on recharge. This is like if the Monk magically got a skill that made all their Spells cost Adrenaline. The Monk isn't balanced around the idea of getting Adrenaline, and the Warrior isn't balanced around the idea of having infinite energy (no class is.).

lol clearly you have no sense of humor. I make Barack jokes, but I'm black and voted for him, I make sexist male jokes even though I don't fit the stereotype, and I made a statement, that really isn't even a joke (seeing as the statement was a reflection of the bias and ignorance of the general population here), mocking how people act reflecting another similar moment that people could associate with, and you say I'm homophobic? I have multiple gay friends, a gay uncle AND aunt, a gay cousin, and have been in various tolerance and youth gay America groups since middle school.

Grow some balls and laugh.

On topic: The warrior sacrifices almost all utility minus bulls AND their elite for a WE bar. They can't pack any damage buffing skill without crippling the bar, and overall, while it's good, and surely "easier" than some bars, it's things like what I listed that keep it balanced. Also, they balance the skills in GENERAL for a warrior, not just adrenal. That's like saying I could pack a few energy runes and keep a good elite, spam Power Attack, and still be good.. no.. you can't.

Throw on Guardian, and stop crying, seriously. This discussion is old now.

fowlero · Nov 16, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Meh i haven't found them to be that bad, sure it makes some shit players do some more damage but who cares, they're bad anyway.

Battle Rage is a much more interesting elite imo, 4 hit full adren dump with a constant 33% speed boost... plus you lose no utility unlike the WE bars as just swap eviscerate-> dismember, rush->battle rage.