Curse

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 08, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I'm not going to say whether or not this skill is overpowered, but rather point out that many find it too strong, while others think it is alright.

But the real point of this topic is:

Will Izzy nerf this template? He recently nerfed ED; is WE up next?

And if he does nerf it, is it justified?

here to troll · Nov 08, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

of course, anything izzy does is justified, after all, it is his game to balance, he(should) know how to do it the best, and while most people think, zomg he is a nab, i can do it better, it is actually harderthan you think

jiggles · Nov 08, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Spamming power attack is stronggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

DarkNecrid · Nov 08, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

He just kinda did nerf it by nerfing ED.

jayson · Nov 08, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Imo I wouldn't say the skill is too strong. The skill itself has no effect on the duration/recharge or power of any skill used with it and you still need to hit an enemy to gain the energy. Blinding or slowing a person using this skill is easy to do. I'd say it's fine as it is. Iirc it was already changed so that the skill hopefully became a little more useful and found it's way onto players skill bars

obsidian ectoplasm · Nov 08, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

its fine, leave it.

Owik Gall · Nov 08, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

It is fine the way it is. Please don't ask it be nerf, because it will be ridiculous and stupid. Very stupid. If you shun at plus energy per attack without it being a stance you must be a moron. Also, it is an elite. It leaves no room for other high end elite attacks. In fact, as a warrior you don't have much attack skills that require energy as they mainly need adrenaline to boost up. Now, there are other skills from other classes that can use this, I'll say that. Still, the point is it's an elite for the sole purpose of energy gain. The cons of that are: Not possible to use another elite (Defy Pain?), warriors have little use of energy skills, and lastly you require a hit. Sure, you can have a spell casting tank (good luck with that) and use WE to boost your energy, but then again there's always blind, miss, and block. End of that. Not to say anyone are willing to try that idea (nor should!) I was only setting an example. WE is great the way it is. Keep it that way. No more, no less.

Let's all, please, leave it at that.

Gift3d · Nov 08, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I could see either of the following being done to nerf endurance bars

Protectors+Power attack recharge increased to 5 or so seconds, or decrease Warriors Endurance time so it has a few seconds of downtime. It's not so overpowered that it needs a huge nerf like endurance being changed from skill to stance, but i'm expecting it to be toned down by just a little bit.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 08, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Frankly, I'm displeased such a bar exists for a warrior. Although it only really shines in other builds, (aka, spike builds) where most of the the other dmg is relatively spamable or short recharge high dmg skills. The bar in general circumvents way too much in how the warrior needs to (BUILD). Spam able skills bars were never my thought with GW 3 years after release, TBH. As such from my previous experience in many metas, currently it's been really stale. No skilled pewpew. With absolutely no relation to having a good midline in order to shutdown enemy caster defense like in the past. An abundance of fire and forget skills, in order to keep your frontline clean to score kills.

I haven't played since Expert's Dexterity was nerfed, but previously running 2 of those rangers or even one heavily prevents what midline you can bring to battle. Furthermore after all of this interrupts and shutdown have become such a dominance in previous metas that it just overwhelmed any defense characters besides fast cast mesmers, along with previous nerfs to b surge. I really don't know if the current nerf to ED will change anything, because they are still benefiting from +dmg from hunters+keen or sloth. The arrows still travel faster if you are using read the wind, and it should be a piece of cake to still interrupt skills/spells with arrows moving faster. Now its only 15% faster attack speed you'll get in 1 arrow less if your just pewpew the same target, something which decent rangers don't do often anyways.

Fail update in regards to ED, nothing to promote a drastic difference in the meta, and stupid spamable warrior bars are still in.

Symbol · Nov 08, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

Will Izzy nerf this template? He recently nerfed ED; is WE up next?

No, given the relatively mild nerf to the ED bar which was a huge problem, we won't see a nerf to WE which isn't a problem.

Quote:

And if he does nerf it, is it justified?

How can you ask this question without asking if it's overpowered?

Anyway, it really isn't. It's just a big domage build that happens to be good at what it does. If it's nerfed people will just go back to running conjure warrior (which is actually BIGGER DOMAGE, but more fragile).

To illustrate:

1. Dismember<------------->1. Eviscerate
2. Power attack<---------->2. Executioners
3. Prot Strike<------------->3. Agonizing
4. Bull's<------------------>4. Bull's
5. Frenzy<---------------->5. Frenzy
6. WE <------------------->6. Conjure
7. Rush/Dash<------------->7. Rush
8. Rez<-------------------> 8. Rez

The skills are directly analogous (in terms of usage), yet the bar on the right magically takes way more skill to play. Why? Who knows.

DarkNecrid · Nov 08, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Because the bar on the right has to manage a resource that the bar on the left doesn't.

wind fire and ice · Nov 08, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Because the bar on the right cant be ran by a complete idiot who likes to spam attacks and watch yellow numbers with out having to think.

Symbol · Nov 08, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Because the bar on the right has to manage a resource that the bar on the left doesn't.

How do you "manage" adrenaline. You hit. It builds. That's pretty much it. When your skills light up, you look for an unprotted or out of position target to unload on (well, unless you're doing 3-2-1 spike, which is apparently the epitome of skill now?).

The point of playing a warrior is that you don't have to manage a limited resource. You get adrenaline for doing something that you'd want to do anyway (hitting things). That's the reason why caster damage doesn't work in this game (outside of spike builds).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind fire and ice

Because the bar on the right cant be ran by a complete idiot who likes to spam attacks and watch yellow numbers with out having to think.

Wow, WE allows you to wail on people through guardian, ignore positioning, and land your bull's 100% of time? That's pretty cool.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 08, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

The skills are directly analogous (in terms of usage), yet the bar on the right magically takes way more skill to play. Why? Who knows.

I hope you are being sarcastic as the conjure bar involves many more variables in order to build the initial adrenaline in order to pump out an increased amount of damage. Factors are increased amount of time over the WE bar in order to apply a minimal dmg increase, midlinebackline absolutely has to make sure a standard warrior bar is clean from hindrance, and made easier to gain the adren needed to do the dmg. WE bars is click prot+pwr attk with no worries, build whatever adren you can, unload whenever as building a relatively similar unload with a deepwound on a WE bar still out dmgs over time than any stand axe bar. It's been said before the WE template is like running a derv, click your crap on recharge and if certain aspects fail ie. deep wound who cares because your next chance to land it is just 5-6 seconds away not 10+. Not only that but prot strike used proper is hitting 90+ same with power attack, essentially the WE template is a DPS machine, a conjure axe won't be hitting for 90+'s every 3 secs. They'll be hitting those numbers after they've built 8 adren.

Symbol · Nov 08, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

I hope you are being sarcastic as the conjure bar involves many more variables in order to build the initial adrenaline in order to pump out an increased amount of damage.

Yes, the conjure bar builds slower, and needs more support from the team. But how is the approach of the player different? Every good warrior I've heard says the same thing if you want to do damage. Switch targets. Unload often.

Quote:

It's been said before the WE template is like running a derv, click your crap on recharge and if certain aspects fail ie. deep wound who cares because your next chance to land it is just 5-6 seconds away not 10+.

But if it fails is largely outside the player's control. If someone lands a last minute prot, or you get blinded, or snared, or whatever, you can't do anything about it.

Let's compare to a WS derv. The derv has:
a. Completely passive enchant based IAS with no downside (so you just mash it on recharge)
b. A bar full of unconditional +damage skills that you also mash on recharge (nothing like bull's, or even prot where it's worthwhile to micro a little for the extra damage).

That's a pretty big difference.

Symbol · Nov 08, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Not only that but prot strike used proper is hitting 90+ same with power attack, essentially the WE template is a DPS machine, a conjure axe won't be hitting for 90+'s every 3 secs. They'll be hitting those numbers after they've built 8 adren

Autocrit on a squishy target for conjure axe is ~75 damage, not that far off. And that's every hit on a fleeing foe. Plus, the spike is a lot stronger (+45 from conjure, +31 from eviscerate, +20 from agonizing) even if it comes out half as often.

Skyros · Nov 08, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

except you can strip the conjure like agood player and carry a shield with proper elemental defense to mitigate damage.

Symbol · Nov 08, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

except you can strip the conjure like agood player and carry a shield with proper elemental defense to mitigate damage.

See, here's the disconnect. I'm not talking power, I'm talking skill. Sure, in a block-heavy meta where players strip the conjure (and arguably, even if they don't), WE is better. I'm not disputing that. It's obviously true, because if it wasn't people wouldn't be switching to WE.

Here's my question. You sit a warrior from a r10 guild, and one from a r2000 guild, and put them in front of the WE bar. Would anyone seriously claim that the former wouldn't blow people up while the latter would just...fail?

Because that's the definition of "requires skill". A bad player on a WE bar is going to get nothing done. He'll still train protted targets for the whole match, die while overextended and locked in frenzy, miss all his bull's, and basically be an abject failure. WE isn't going to save him from his incompetence.

That's my point.

AKB48 · Nov 08, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

WE takes up the slot of an elite, so there shouldn't be too much of a overpower for warriors.......and spamming PA really isn't THAT effective.

Axel Zinfandel · Nov 08, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

WE takes up the slot of an elite, so there shouldn't be too much of a overpower for warriors.......and spamming PA really isn't THAT effective, unless you are using a scythe

Fixed!~~~~~~