Curse

Grand Theft Ecto · Nov 11, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

-

Noone really has influence on the balancing bar Izzy himself, despite the location or means of communication used to relay the desired changes to him. If TA has severe imbalances, people can and will complain about it in a thread like this and hope for improvement.

Of course builds can be countered. But you can't spec everything. Not on ladder because you'll lose to other balancedish builds without less useful counterskills. Not on ATs because the map might not be suitable. Have fun countering a defensive spike by rawr or NOW on an 8v8 map.

Powerblock isn't gonna get anyone killed if it hits the prot once or twice. But you constantly have to pay attention to whether he's in range and fake at the right moment. Its killing when you're taking pressure and the skill that NEEDS to be cast gets pblocked, resulting in a death and if played right by the opponent, more than one. Its gimmicky, when not under pressure it doesn't do much, when pushing hard/struggling it can be devastating.

Burton2000 · Nov 11, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand Theft Ecto

-Perhaps make warriors endurance a stance, though that might kill it.

Well thats what it was before wasn't it and it never saw play so I think that would kill the skill yea.

Byron · Nov 11, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Why is the metagame shifting to 1-2 WE guys and 6 warrior support guys?

Burton2000 · Nov 11, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Why is the metagame shifting to 1-2 WE guys and 6 warrior support guys?

Because big dommage spike with rend/pain owns as you can pack so much defence into the build while having an amazing spike. Its always been like that with eurospike/dervspike and all its varients etc. in the past.

God_Hand · Nov 12, 2008, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

[Visions of Regret]The skill is just ridiculous with backfire + wastrel's worry, but I don't think that it should be nerfed, it could be useful on some hex teams on HA or GvG.The problem of this skill on 4v4 is Wastrel's Worry, not VoR.

[Wastrel's Worry]lower the damage to it's original state imo

I agree. I'd say the problem is with both skills combined together, and the mesmer & necro class in their entirety. 4v4 is absolutely ridiculous when facing a dom mesmer + curse nec + good monk + condition spam ranger or some group like that.

I propose a change:

[Wastrel's Worry] Make it 3 seconds + 3 seconds for every hex already on that target + 1 second for each skill on target foe's bar that is either recharging, disabled, or does not have full adrenaline.

[Visions of Regret] This skill only affects skills that target Foes.

[Diversion] If target foe does not use a skill in 6 seconds, Diversion & any skills that disable foes' skills are disabled for an additional 20...10...5 seconds.

Also, I propose a little box next to all your allies names in PvP to show whether they have a Res or not, which Res it is, and if it's recharging or not.

Kyp Jade · Nov 12, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

0.0 did someone just suggest a nerf to diversion?

-Pluto- · Nov 12, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

It's been nerfed before, so doing so wouldn't be that alien, but I don't think it needs to be killed either. That Wastrel's worry suggestion would never happen, because that just makes the skill needlessly complicated. If it needs a nerf at all, it would probably make more sense to just hit the damage slightly.

The VoR change might kill the skill for pvp, but it thematically fits the name better (it'd make more sense to have "visions of regret" for casting lightning orb on someone than it does for casting guardian on yourself). And honestly, who the hell cares if VoR is killed? This version of VoR easily the stupidest skill in the game, and should never have been allowed to exist. The only reason you could possibly miss it is if you play VoR and don't know how you could possibly get wins in RA otherwise.

urania · Nov 12, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

or grind TA.

God_Hand · Nov 12, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

It's been nerfed before, so doing so wouldn't be that alien, but I don't think it needs to be killed either. That Wastrel's worry suggestion would never happen, because that just makes the skill needlessly complicated. If it needs a nerf at all, it would probably make more sense to just hit the damage slightly.

The VoR change might kill the skill for pvp, but it thematically fits the name better (it'd make more sense to have "visions of regret" for casting lightning orb on someone than it does for casting guardian on yourself). And honestly, who the hell cares if VoR is killed? This version of VoR easily the stupidest skill in the game, and should never have been allowed to exist. The only reason you could possibly miss it is if you play VoR and don't know how you could possibly get wins in RA otherwise.

I see what you're saying about my WW suggestion being needlessly complicated. It really does kill the skill, but I wouldn't mind in the least (saying this as a W & a Mo)

As for your stance on VoR, I completely agree with you (was even running over what you said about how it fits the name better in my head whilst posting).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

0.0 did someone just suggest a nerf to diversion?

Yes I did. This skill is spammed, spammed, and spammed some more. You shouldn't just be able to throw this skill on their monk and pray to god they use a skill. Not to mention you can have this skill up about 1/3 of the time.

Either my suggested "Diversion backfires on you" catch, or increase to 15 energy, decrease the foes recharge (because a 59 second recharge makes no sense brought on by a slightly spammable skill), increase the recharge of Diversion, do something.

My main point is, you shouldn't just use this skill to use it. You should use it when you KNOW there is no alternative for the opposing team other than "Use Key Skill", THAT'S what Diversion should be.

Also, here's where Wastrel's Worry comes into play again. Either "Take 105 damage, or you can't use some skill for 59 seconds, you have 3 seconds to choose, including cast time." It's hardly fair. I'm not about to go Mesmer secondary just for Hex Breaker

Combine with Glyph of Renewal and you can disable half the enemies skill bar in around 20 or so seconds, or deal a load of damage through Wastrel's Worry, or a combination of both.

...Stupid...

EDIT:

Oh, and Hex Breaker is a stance, go freakin figure. It's recharge ain't too great either.

Diversion costs 10 energy? Never noticed whilst I was playing my hex$#!+er. Oh well, make it 15 now (and that just kills it).

Celeborn10 · Nov 12, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Hmm, perhaps change VoR to attacks and attack skills? Passive hexing is retarded and shouldn't be rewarding. What else? Maybe up the recharge on Rend/Rip Enchantments.

I've never seen a 59 second disable on Diversion. Wait, that's because you need 16 Domination to get that. Hmm, are you running Superior Runes? On a Caster?

God_Hand · Nov 13, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Hmm, perhaps change VoR to attacks and attack skills? Passive hexing is retarded and shouldn't be rewarding. What else? Maybe up the recharge on Rend/Rip Enchantments.

I've never seen a 59 second disable on Diversion. Wait, that's because you need 16 Domination to get that. Hmm, are you running Superior Runes? On a Caster?

I see 105 damage Wastrel's Worry all the freakin time (literally, once I start seeing it, it never stops 'till I'm dead). You probably just don't notice it on Diversion, cause once you're that high up on the recharge, you're not going to notice a 4-5 second difference. What, do you count & go by where the recharge is still dark to determine their stat?

Superior Runes on a caster... really, what's it to you?

This is totally random, but I think Leader's Comfort's cast time or Signet of Synergy's recharge should be lowered a bit. I'd rather monk second with Word of Healing than try to work the Paragon's crappy self heals... and they call them a defensive class, they only have Defensive Anthem to block, and everything about it is just ridiculous, AND it's an elite, although it DOES affect the whole party, which is neat (yeah, I rhymed that).

Also...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

I'm really glad you guys have no influence on the skill balancing system what so ever.

That's great.

Celeborn10 · Nov 13, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

I see 105 damage Wastrel's Worry all the freakin time (literally, once I start seeing it, it never stops 'till I'm dead). You probably just don't notice it on Diversion, cause once you're that high up on the recharge, you're not going to notice a 4-5 second difference. What, do you count & go by where the recharge is still dark to determine their stat?

Superior Runes on a caster... really, what's it to you?

No I don't count, although that would be appropriate as a music major, I use a wonderful tool called GWFreaks. It lets you create build templates, tweak and create a plethora of good stuff.

As for the Superior Rune, it is generally acknowledged that using a +3 rune in PvP is tantamount to suicide. Mesmers have low enough armor as is making them a prime target in all seasons. Having fewer HP for more Dam0ge is an indication of being a scrub especially on a caster. Wastrel's Worry has always been acknowledged as excrement and a waste of energy without VoR. Nerf VoR and WW will magically recede to its normal level.

Now Diversion. I don't know who you play with but I must ask why they aren't interrupting a 2 second cast (or if the target is veiled 4). That is its balancing feature; the cast time. In GvG most often the opposing ranger will interrupt it unless the mesmer cancelcasted/halfcasted/or used LoS to avoid the arrow. Of those three methods two require at least some intelligence and encourage good gameplay.

X Cytherea X · Nov 13, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Noone really has influence on the balancing bar Izzy himself, despite the location or means of communication used to relay the desired changes to him.

that's ridiculous, of course he's influenced by qq. look what happened to siphon, expose, sp, black lotus, horns, impale... he wouldntve done that if not for qqing.

God_Hand · Nov 13, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I think my main problem with Visions + WW is that one punishes you for spamming skills, and the other punishes you for NOT spamming skills.

As for WW being worthless w/o VoR, ever heard of adrenaline? WW kills warriors, as every adren skill they take lowers the amount of skills they can activate on demand, whenever, round the clock. Eventually, they'll run out of energy, their stance / stances will be recharging, heal sig is too slow, whatever. It WILL get through on a warrior.

And that's just bull. Not to mention it's 5 energy. On a caster, that's basically free.

As for who I play with, I play a lot of RA. Now, don't laugh, or be like "ZOMFG NOOB GET A GIULD HEROS ASSENT HEROS ASSENT GEE VEE GEE ROFL LOL STFU", please. I enjoy the concept of RA far more than I actually enjoy RA. That said, I also enjoy the concept of Hero Battles far more than the actual game.

I've never been one for organization, I say pair us up randomly and let's have at each other!

...But that doesn't work. When the concept of RA is more enjoyable than actually playing it, something is wrong. Same with HB.

It's all about ridiculous builds brought on by ridiculous skills. My "Favorite" in HB is when your opponent gets 4 RaO thumpers together and lets loose. Or when the opponent takes 2 monks & 2 Grasping Earth + Searing Flames spikers.

That said, I think in RA & HB there should be a monk limit of 1 per team to avoid long, drawn out matches. Oh, and just get rid of pets. Forever.

emuking · Nov 13, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

[Diversion] If target foe does not use a skill in 6 seconds, Diversion & any skills that disable foes' skills are disabled for an additional 20...10...5 seconds.

Diversion is not a problem, it's in combination with the other hexes does it only create super shutdown. Diversion is perfectly balanced with its 3 sec cast time and minimal 6 sec shutdown. The back to back VoR + backfire (another 3 sec cast) and wastrels basically does the job of shutting down a target. However you have to spam these skills like nuts as a mesmer and its easily interuptable. If you have trouble with the R/P, soul bind, vor, monk build; pm me in game under Emu King. Do not question diversion's overpoweredness because it is NOT overpowered at all.

God_Hand · Nov 13, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Oh, and.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Now Diversion. I don't know who you play with but I must ask why they aren't interrupting a 2 second cast (or if the target is veiled 4). That is its balancing feature; the cast time. In GvG most often the opposing ranger will interrupt it unless the mesmer cancelcasted/halfcasted/or used LoS to avoid the arrow. Of those three methods two require at least some intelligence and encourage good gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KicknDave

Your whole post is basically the age old response of "Just d-shot it."

Oh, and.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

cancelcasted/halfcasted

-Finished with my woman 'cause she couldn't help me with my mind
-People think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time
-All day long I think of things but nothing seems to satisfy
-Think I'll lose my mind if I don't find something to pacify

or

-You can look, but you can't touch
-I don't think I like you much
-Heaven knows what a girl can do
-Heaven knows what you've got to prove

Get the gist?

If all you do is cancel-cast until you see D-Shot up, you're never gonna get anywhere. I dunno, maybe put [Disciplined Stance] or [Shield Stance] or [Distortion] or [Mirage Cloak] or something like that up while you're casting?

I mean, here's the bar! [Visions of Regret][Wastrel's Worry][Diversion][Empathy][Backfire] You got 3 more slots!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

Do not question diversion's overpoweredness because it is NOT overpowered at all.

[Diversion] + [Wastrel's Worry] + [Glyph of Renewal] (for Diversion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

Diversion is perfectly balanced with its 3 sec cast time and minimal 6 sec shutdown. The back to back VoR + backfire (another 3 sec cast)

Man, ever heard of Fast Casting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

However you have to spam these skills like nuts as a mesmer and its easily interuptable.

Last time I checked, WW doesn't even have a cast time. Just says 5E 1R right? Lemme check: [Wastrel's Worry] Huh, it's 1/4. I sure can hit those every freakin time! EVEN WITH FAST CASTING ON THE WW!!!

You really don't have to "spam" the other skills per say (who uses Empathy & Backfire on the same target?), they last fairly long. Interrupts = Block stance / Mantra of Resolve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

If you have trouble with the R/P, soul bind, vor, monk build

I don't even know what this part is...

Last time I checked, I never had problems with the R/P, I have problems with FOUR R/P's. Never had a complaint about soul bind. VoR, well, just listen to everyone else on this board. Monk build? Ha ha! I pressed Word of Healing & Guardian! I'm good at this game!

I don't play a mesmer, I complain about them. I play damage classes & monk. I tried to play a mesmer once, all I did was spam WW on a target 'till it died. On a monk, just VoR or Backfire, and keep spamming WW & Diversion on to keep Backfire covered.

Don't Mutli Post!

DarkNecrid · Nov 13, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Jeez learn to use the edit button!

Quote:

Man, ever heard of Fast Casting?

Brings it down to 2 seconds which is perfectly manageable.

And whose gonna use GoR instead of VoR with WW.

Phe Belladona · Nov 13, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

im calling troll, its just too obtuse to be real

God_Hand · Nov 14, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Jeez learn to use the edit button!

Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I went off on a lot of random tangents, and I didn't want one huge Mega-Post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Brings it down to 2 seconds which is perfectly manageable.

My point exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

And whose gonna use GoR instead of VoR with WW.

Actually, I rolled a PvP Mes, and I've been doing very good pressure even w/o VoR. Just Empathy for phys, Back for casters & WW away... VoR only makes it way lamer. I'm not about to stoop to such a level anytime soon...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

im calling troll, its just too obtuse to be real

Your avatar is just too obtuse to be real. I mean, just take one look at it, and you'll see what I mean. Or don't. You might get bad ideas in your head.

Celeborn10 · Nov 14, 2008, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

im calling troll, its just too obtuse to be real

/agree
I'm thinking giving the troll more food to chew is a bad idea. If no more food is given it might get tired of chewing on the same old bone. Just don't kick it!

Moving on, what about fixing Foul Feast or is that really not a problem? It would be nice to see condition removal back on monk bars but can the bars today can handle the powercreep without that extra slot (for a stance)?