Curse

DreamRunner · Oct 13, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The TA meta's more of a monk meatgrinder now, and it's easier to keep melee clean, to the point where fire-and-forget "hey you can't lineback me any more as long as I spacebar someone" is kind of stupid.

TA sin's have always had critical defense on their bars. It is why rend enchants on warriors use to be a must as well as being useful against ebon dust aura. However, I was saying that it was a good skill and I got insulted by people who loved gvg.

Master Ketsu · Oct 14, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Critical defenses is fine. Stop being bad.

The only reason the skill works well right now is because of an overly defensive linebacker meta. Just because a skill works in a failmeta does not make it OP.

Critical defenses places itself back on the enchant stack each time it is refreshed. Throw a CE or rip at them while they are attacking, and you are almost guaranteed to remove it.

Shu_ · Oct 14, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

why dont ask Anet for separate buffs/nerfs on each pvp mode?Onde nerf for TA, one for HA and ..... (dreamy , I know, but with some luck and union it can be possible)

moko · Oct 14, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

they introduced a PvE/PvP split for skills, and even that is too much work for them. apparently it's too hard to code these skills? *shrug*

that's why i really doubt they would introduce even more of these skill differences, and seriously now, nobody would be able to recall the skills properly for whatever format they need.

shoogi · Oct 14, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

If you have any suggestions that are credible to allowing this skill to enter the PvP world primarily, please submit them. Since it's existence, it has not been used effectively because it can't be. Either fundamentally change the skill or lower the drawbacks/damg (But if you do this, it's basically Evicerate, so no point). Ideas? Sun Fired Blank I'm calling you out.

Currently the only way to make use of this is go w/d, spec into wind and use Attacker's Insight before your combo. If you spec 4 you can have 1 follow up and if you spec 12 you can have 2 follow ups (critical chop and furious axe). The problem is that the energy axe attacks are kinda bad comparing to the adrenal axe attacks, so your follow ups are weak, you mind as well just bring the normal shock+eviscerate bar, that allows you to take shock and doesn't require an insane 12 spec in wind prayers, allowing only 3 points investment in strengh. It might be better in a spike situation where you want tons of damage right away, so this skill isn't completely usless.

But yes, only 1 bar for axe warriors is a bit boring.

DreamWind · Oct 14, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

they introduced a PvE/PvP split for skills, and even that is too much work for them. apparently it's too hard to code these skills? *shrug*

Yea...I was one of the people who found it hilarious when everybody said the PvE/PvP skill split would solve everything. All it did was confirm our beliefs that Anet doesn't know what the hell they are doing.

Krill · Oct 14, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Critical defenses is fine. Stop being bad.

Not that I really want to argue about critical defenses, but when you make an argument to just "CE or rip it", you're basically conceding that TA without a curses nec is a no go. Personally I think the current nec templates suck balls, but they are still attractive because of OP skills.

DarkNecrid · Oct 14, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

There are other enchant removal skills besides the ones in the Curses line. And you should at least have 1 enchant removal skill anyways imo.

scruffy · Oct 14, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

or you can just kite him for 7 seconds till it ends?? then spike?

you guys realize you can use your bulls strike + executioners strike before decapitate right? so you dont really have to change anyting on the shockaxe bar except eviscerate for decapitate depending on how brave you want to be without being able to cancel frenzy, you could even bring BoA since youre gonna lose all adren anyways, or you can just use a +5 energy set to swap to and use sprint after the spike is over to cancel frenzy

if i was using an omega spike build i would use decapitate for sure...since you arent gonna have any pressure anyways you might as well not even pretend

Mr Emu · Oct 15, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

you guys realize you can use your bulls strike + executioners strike before decapitate right? so you dont really have to change anyting on the shockaxe bar except eviscerate for decapitate depending on how brave you want to be without being able to cancel frenzy, you could even bring BoA since youre gonna lose all adren anyways, or you can just use a +5 energy set to swap to and use sprint after the spike is over to cancel frenzy

if i was using an omega spike build i would use decapitate for sure...since you arent gonna have any pressure anyways you might as well not even pretend

you realize DW requires another hit or degen to trigger right? I'm not saying a good wanding wouldn't do it, but it's something to consider

Reverend Dr · Oct 15, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Decapitate is going to be bad no matter what. The only time it looked feesable was back when it accidentally had 1/2 activation. You need a followup to activate the deep wound, otherwise even if DW + decapitate would kill, if the damage alone wouldn't they are going to be sitting at 1 hp. The best that could be done is to use -5 and +5 energy weapon swaps to get hits afterwards.

Really, the reason decapitate isn't used is that the extra spike potential just isn't worth the adrenaline and energy loss, especially when compared to evicerate.

I also don't really see what the issue with critical defence. Its powerful againt melee, but that's about it. Kiting it for a few seconds (also kiting assassins in the middle of a chain is a good idea) makes it drop itself. It is incredibly powerful if everyone can only press c, 1, 2, 3, 4; the game is not balanced around that kind of play.

emuking · Oct 15, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

If you switch out evicerate for decapitate in the standard w/e axe build, you will quickly realize that they aren't equals. Using 14 axe mastery, decap hits +47 (19 sec deep wound) and evicerate hits +29 (19 sec deep wound). It is simply a matter of damage. Evicerate does 18 less damage than decapitate and only has a chance of critical damage. Is that worth all your energy and adrenaline to do 18 more? The critical damage bonus guarantee is nice, but you will be dropping 2 times for evicerate chains than decapitate because of the adrenaline and energy loss. Overall, Evicerate is therefore better for pressure.

As far as spiking goes, yes decapitate hits a harder as an elite, but as many real warriors know, you need a follow up for the KO. The w/d idea is nice but you have to sac points into wind prayers which i don't think is as good as the evicerate build.

Okay there is a lot of things I can talk about for decapitate and why it sucks and why even though its spike damage is greater, evicerate still takes the cake. I may simply post a thread on a different elite and just discuss the process of fixing the skill.

I believe Decapitate and Evicerate should be similar to each other in the way that body blow and executioners strike are similiar. My idea is flawed probably because I have homework and am not focusing purely on fixing the skill but i believe something like this may work. Keep in mind when balancing a skill, I cannot stress this enough, you must focus on every aspect of PvP, NOT just HA, GvG, RA, AB and TA but levels of skill in those categories. You must consider gimmicks, Overpowered abilities and harmony with other skills. This is one reason why i hate when people attempt to change 20 skills in a single post because no way can you do 20 of these with the other skills alone." If you are going to suggest a skill change do it one at a time. The developers are very slow and careful when they update skills like this because they realize too much change at once will lead to a situation that you overlooked. Remember WoTA sins in that one big update? A/R A/D A/P.... etc you get it.

remember:

Evicerate: Elite Axe Attack. If Eviscerate hits, you strike for +1...25...31 damage and inflict a Deep Wound, lowering your target's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17...20 seconds. (8 adren)

My idea for Decapitate:

Decapitate: Elite Axe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +3...14...17 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. If you strike a knocked down foe, you strike for an additional 3...14...17 damage. (8 adren)

Instead of discussing all the scenarios of why this will work, just post one in which you think it will not be balanced. One thing you should remember is TOP and i mean TOP warriors will take advantage of decapitate in GvG (and HA maybe...) specifically because of the knockdown condition for bonus damage. If you have any constructive criticism or questions go nuts. I will probably periodically end up doing little posts like these over many of the "overpowered" skills.

Reverend Dr · Oct 15, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

They really are not equals, they really are not even on the same playing field.

If the deep wound triggers then the decapitate spike has a slightly higher spike potential. However, while the deep wound is guaranteed to trigger on an evicerate spike, it is not guaranteed on a decapitate spike. This is 100 points of damage left hanging in the air. It will trigger sometimes, but not everytime, you are left hoping someone can put some damage in, or the monks can't react faster than your next axe swing. Everything else aside, even in a pure spike build, this is why it isn't run: everyone would rather have the extra critical damage of eviscerate hanging in the air, than the 100 hp damage of the deep wound.

erk · Oct 15, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

A few of the blood skills could do with a bit of a change so this revival of silly Blood Spike teams in GvG goes away. I suggest making several of the spike skills into hexes eg. similar to Wastrels, so they do their damage after a short delay, thus can't stack multiples of the same skill for a spike, but it won't wreck em for single Necros in RA/TA like previous Blood nerfs have done.

Byron · Oct 24, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Pew pew rangers.

moriz · Oct 24, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by emuking

My idea for Decapitate:

Decapitate: Elite Axe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +3...14...17 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. If you strike a knocked down foe, you strike for an additional 3...14...17 damage. (8 adren)

only if you add "and results in a critical hit" to the conditional also. otherwise, people will just stick with eviscerate. you might have to lower the conditional damage slightly to compensate a bit. maybe 3...15.

Riotgear · Oct 24, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Here's the thing, again, bad/subpar skills don't matter unless they are harming things by being bad or leaving niches unfulfilled. Izzy could add 100 utterly useless skills to the game and it wouldn't change anything, people just wouldn't use them.

I don't think I've ever heard someone say "you know, I really like Eviscerate, but it's just not fulfilling its role as well as it should." That should signal that there is no need for a buffed Decapitate.

There are plenty of skills based on good ideas that have fallen by the wayside that are good candidates for buffing, i.e. Healing Signet and Blessed Light, and there are plenty of poorly thought out dartboard buffs/overhauls to shitty skills that have made the game significantly worse, so balancing efforts should really not be focusing on shitty skills.

Krill · Oct 25, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

It would be nice if there were a choice of axe elites for PvP, but I don't think it should be a priority.

On topic I'd just be happy with changes to Expert's Dexterity, VoR , Foul Feast and the blood spam crap, can't hardly call it a spike. I'm guessing something will change with Warrior's Endurance after mAT as well, but I really hope Izzy will do something to freshen up TA and clear out the most degenerate crap that's being played in GvG and HA.

Div · Oct 25, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

All I ask is that tomorrow's mAT isn't going to error people out every other match.

DarkNecrid · Oct 25, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

All I ask is that tomorrow's mAT isn't going to error people out every other match.

yeah right

also guys i have it on good word anet will balance all the skills in this topic next update

*laugh*