Curse

Magikarp · Sep 11, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I think you miss the part where skill selection has been dying down more to rampant power creep than nerfs.

you figure that the majority of massive powercreeps and need for mass nerfing is because of the addition of new content, or in other words, new campaigns, so by now, you could easily say that the worst is over, and that all there is now to do is tweak the last disputably "imbalanced" skills. You can't possibly say that the minor buffs, out side of flat out skill addition in the form of campaigns, has caused the state of the game, and if anything, have improved diversity and skillbar flexibility (like Quivering Blade, or WoD). Its the combination of poorly chosen skills for the new content and the even more poorly executed nerfs that cause the stale meta, not reworking unused skills in to actual gameplay...

urania · Sep 11, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

unnecessary buffs that often werent thought out well have, in fact, decreased the build choice greatly, especially in TA.
the best example would be foul feast which rendered almost any cond-based build completely useless.

Teh Jace · Sep 11, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

unnecessary buffs that often werent thought out well have, in fact, decreased the build choice greatly, especially in TA. the best example would be foul feast which literally rendered almost any cond-based build completely useless.

That and the fact all these buffed uberpwnage skills are terribly boring to play. In TA u have basically 3 choices : lame balanced (a monk pressing stances on recharge, a warr in linebacking mode 24/7 or maybe a nec rolling his face over the FF button), any build containing pet(s) - the more pets u have the better and ofc the lovely shove spike.
It doesn't rly matter which one u pick...

Whenever I go TA I go either stanceless ZB monk, axe warr and nec with no ff (this build is allright vs bala but gets crushed by hexway anytime) or some fun shit like 4 wammos.

So much crap has to be nerfed in order to restore the old TA but this is not gonna happen in the next 50 years.

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

You can't possibly say that the minor buffs, out side of flat out skill addition in the form of campaigns, has caused the state of the game.

Yes I can. There have been numerous "innocent" looking buffs that have completely changed the state of the game over the years. Almost all of them were bad ideas.

Riotgear · Sep 11, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

you figure that the majority of massive powercreeps and need for mass nerfing is because of the addition of new content, or in other words, new campaigns, so by now, you could easily say that the worst is over

No, it isn't, because Izzy's now deciding to take shit skills and overhaul them, which keeps producing broken shit. Witness Expert's Dexterity r-spike in the MAT, Hidden Caltrops, Wounding Strike, and practically all of the brainless garbage in TA that mostly gained popularity from things done AFTER the EOTN release.

Krill · Sep 12, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

...you figure that the majority of massive powercreeps and need for mass nerfing is because of the addition of new content, or in other words, new campaigns, so by now, you could easily say that the worst is over, and that all there is now to do is tweak the last disputably "imbalanced" skills.

Sorry but no, it's all been buffs that have caused this shit.

Plague Sending - Reduced energy to 1 from 10 in March update
Wail of Doom - Functionality changed March update
Foul Feast - Functionality changed March update
Rip Enchantment - Functionality changed in March update
Wounding Strike - Functionality changed in March update
Soul Bind - Functionality changed in June update
Visions of Regret - Functionality changed in August update

Anyway you get the idea.

Axagoth Baal · Sep 13, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Sorry but no, it's all been buffs that have caused this shit.

Plague Sending - Reduced energy to 1 from 10 in March update
Wail of Doom - Functionality changed March update
Foul Feast - Functionality changed March update
Rip Enchantment - Functionality changed in March update
Wounding Strike - Functionality changed in March update
Soul Bind - Functionality changed in June update
Visions of Regret - Functionality changed in August update

Anyway you get the idea.

I totally agree.

X Cytherea X · Sep 13, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

those buffs were the best part of the updates. seeing them all summarized in one post makes me smile.

Tearz1993 · Sep 13, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Sorry but no, it's all been buffs that have caused this shit.

Plague Sending - Reduced energy to 1 from 10 in March update
Wail of Doom - Functionality changed March update
Foul Feast - Functionality changed March update
Rip Enchantment - Functionality changed in March update
Wounding Strike - Functionality changed in March update
Soul Bind - Functionality changed in June update
Visions of Regret - Functionality changed in August update

Anyway you get the idea.

The downside is that all of these skills are only overpowered in TA. HA has so much hex / condition removal that this stuff can be manageable for enough time to kill them, and in GvG you can split if it isn't manageable 8v8.

Not saying TA doesn't deserve fixes, because it does, but since they are only a problem in a format with barely any players, ANet won't bother and would rather buff Shock Arrow.

DutchSmurf · Sep 13, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

those buffs were the best part of the updates. seeing them all summarized in one post makes me smile.

Can you please explain to the rest of us why you like overpowered skills that should have no place in the game and have done nothing but harm it?

Just a little note before you reply. We don't have anything against buffs. Not at all. We have something against buffs that are:
a) unnecessary to either the skill or the game in general. Like if you have 3 skills that do basically the same, but 1 is less powerful. There is no need to buff the third then, because you already have 2. And having 3 is more likely to cause problems then it is going to do any good. Or if a skill is already good at its own little part of the game. No need for a buff then either. Part of this is skills that got buffed/reworked to do a similar thing as a currently existing skill, but then better.
b) taking it too far. Many skills that were buffed got buffed that much that they became the next overpowered skill.
c) waste space on the update notes. The amount of buffs that were completely useless is that long that I can't keep myself from thinking "what if the time spend on 'buffing' those skills would have been spend on nerfing some problem skills?"

Bowstring Badass · Sep 13, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

ANet won't bother and would rather buff Shock Arrow.

Quoted because it happened.

Honestly anyone remember back in early 06 when they buffed less used skills and made the OP ones balanced or at least tryed to?

Krill · Sep 13, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

The downside is that all of these skills are only overpowered in TA. HA has so much hex / condition removal that this stuff can be manageable for enough time to kill them, and in GvG you can split if it isn't manageable 8v8.

Not saying TA doesn't deserve fixes, because it does, but since they are only a problem in a format with barely any players, ANet won't bother and would rather buff Shock Arrow.

Fair enough assessment, I know HA has its own set of lingering problem skills that are usually laughed or given a "just d-shot or divert it" response.

The hex builds are beatable in TA, but when you take a look at the so called balanced builds for TA now it kinda makes your head spin. You pretty much need the same amount of hex removal for 4v4 as 8v8, if not more since hex builds work so well now in 4v4. Which is why I think a 5e blessed light would be great and fix a lot of shit for the smaller formats. Just wish Izzy would try it and if it breaks everything, revert it the next week...don't see how it could possibly have a worse result than the initial WoTA buff, dexterity, incendiary arrows, etc.

urania · Sep 13, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Can you please explain to the rest of us why you like overpowered skills that should have no place in the game and have done nothing but harm it?

trolling seems to be the latest hit.

deluxe · Sep 13, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

When there's a mesmer in RA you know what you are gonna face: Wastrel Worry/Backfire/Empathy/Visions of Regret spam or FC water..
so boring. vor in ra basically what rao is in ha, everyone can do it.

DreamWind · Sep 14, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I'm against any buff, unless it is to a skill that is less powerful now than it was in Prophecies. Nerf almost everything else. I bet this strategy would work in the end.

Riotgear · Sep 14, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

The downside is that all of these skills are only overpowered in TA.

A lot of the things that started being problems in lower formats eventually became problems in higher formats when the conditions were right, and even without that consideration, a buff that makes something broken in TA and has no effect anywhere else is obviously not helping the game.

Boogz · Sep 14, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Brutal Weapon (PvP) - no effect if target is enchanted
plz

Tearz1993 · Sep 15, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A lot of the things that started being problems in lower formats eventually became problems in higher formats when the conditions were right

Kind of agree, but they aren't necessarily as problematic in higher formats as in lower formats. Even though smiters were annoying in GvG and forced people to split, the option to split was still there. You can't do that in TA. It was a problem in GvG for the reason that it forced people to play in a specific mindset, while it is a problem in TA because you're objective is to fight them 4v4 and kill them.

While I agree they created problems in higher formats, these problems shouldn't be compared to those of the lower ones.

Riotgear · Sep 15, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

Kind of agree, but they aren't necessarily as problematic in higher formats as in lower formats. Even though smiters were annoying in GvG and forced people to split, the option to split was still there. You can't do that in TA. It was a problem in GvG for the reason that it forced people to play in a specific mindset, while it is a problem in TA because you're objective is to fight them 4v4 and kill them.

While I agree they created problems in higher formats, these problems shouldn't be compared to those of the lower ones.

Instagib lolsins, r-spike, and most overload/zerg builds come to mind as things that could have been fixed early if Izzy didn't have tunnel vision. All it takes is some random buff or other that either sends them into overdrive, or covers for one of their key weaknesses.

The problems are comparable, because the things that make them work in lower formats are the same things that eventually make them effective in higher formats.

uzumaki · Sep 15, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Enrage lunge needs a spank with the nerf bat... 0 cast time is imba, virtually the only thing you can do is divert or sig of humil.. You can kite and do damage at the same time since you dont have to stop to cast which is rediculous

It needs to have a cast time of 1 imo and 8-10 recharge

foul feast too, make it similar to the new smiters boon

^^