Curse

the_deSKtructor · Sep 10, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

the ability to rez pets for virtually no penalty

This is what annoys me the most. Disabling Comfort Animal/Heal as one for 20 secs or so when a pet dies would at least force those teams who massively use pets to heal them.

Teh Jace · Sep 10, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

When a pet dies all skills of his master are disabled for x sec (according to his bm attribute). The problem is this penalty is rather laughable for a bestmaster with high investment into bestmastery. Imo this penalty should be lenghtened somehow so if u kill a pet u actually achieve something.

the_deSKtructor · Sep 10, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

When a pet dies all skills of his master are disabled for x sec (according to his bm attribute). The problem is this penalty is rather laughable for a bestmaster with high investment into bestmastery. Imo this penalty should be lenghtened somehow so if u kill a pet u actually achieve something.

The problem is that those X secs aren't enough. Ppl rather let the pet die and ress him right after instaed of healing it.

kvndoom · Sep 10, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Be interesting to see if any of these issues get addressed tomorrow. I know better than to hold my breath though. Has Dwarven Battle Stance gotten its yearly buff for 2008 yet?

Riotgear · Sep 10, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

The problem is that those X secs aren't enough. Ppl rather let the pet die and ress him right after instaed of healing it.

Part of the problem is that Comfort Animal recovers a shitload more health if you let the pet die, which has never really made sense.

Byron · Sep 10, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Have we talked about the Visions of Regret buff yet? That shit's crazy. CRAZY.

I remember this skill called Ineptitude, which had a similar power - but it wasn't aoe and it only damaged once. With the addition of wastrel's buff, it'd be so easy to have a few VoR mesmers fire and forget for big damage. I'm not up to par on GvG lately, but I imagine a grossly overpowered build will emerge, if it hasn't already.

And lets stop quoting the entire bloody post. ffs.

Burton2000 · Sep 10, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Visions of regret isn't anything amazing imo and shouldn't be touched.

urania · Sep 10, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

it is once u team it up with bf+empathy+soul bind in a hex overload build.

Lord Zion · Sep 10, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

i have a problem with this guy ---> [Signet of Disenchantment]

Why lose all energy to remove only 1 enchantment?

Either make it remove all enchantments losing X energy per enchantment removed or increase recharge and remove the "lose all energy thing" even if its lose half of your current energy.

DarkNecrid · Sep 10, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

It's for signet heavy builds / weapon switching. Yea it sucks, but it's not breaking the game so who cares.

Magikarp · Sep 10, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It's for signet heavy builds / weapon switching. Yea it sucks, but it's not breaking the game so who cares.

because it sucks. hes saying he'd like to see it buffed more-or-less, and I agree with him as far as that goes too. It would be great to see a lot of those "crappy so-what" skills get put to good use and spice up the game (like AoF etc).

As for VoR.. I can obviously see how its a major pain, but broken? i think not. Its cast, its length, its predictability, it being an elite, all factor in to how its still reasonable, and like it was said before, it really only shows a bit of overpowered-ness (like Soul Bind) with a hex heavy group. (not saying its not used outside of that as pressure.) I really don't think that it needs nerfing though.

Greedy Gus · Sep 10, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

because it sucks. hes saying he'd like to see it buffed more-or-less, and I agree with him as far as that goes too. It would be great to see a lot of those "crappy so-what" skills get put to good use and spice up the game (like AoF etc).

The key aspect of this thread's theme is the "need" in the title. People could make a thread where everyone suggests different buffs to random bad skills, but that would be a far different message than the ones this topic is trying to convey, even if they both have to do with skill balance. Also, only one of those two topics would actually require people to have the game's best interest in mind rather than just trying to push changes they'd like to see (this one).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

it really only shows a bit of overpowered-ness (like Soul Bind) with a hex heavy group. (not saying its not used outside of that as pressure.) I really don't think that it needs nerfing though.

That tends to be a pretty good warning sign. Something isn't good enough to consider using in a basic team setup, but in an overload strategy it becomes overpowered.

Magikarp · Sep 10, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

The key aspect of this thread's theme is the "need" in the title. People could make a thread where everyone suggests different buffs to random bad skills, but that would be a far different message than the ones this topic is trying to convey, even if they both have to do with skill balance. Also, only one of those two topics would actually require people to have the game's best interest in mind rather than just trying to push changes they'd like to see (this one).

That tends to be a pretty good warning sign. Something isn't good enough to consider using in a basic team setup, but in an overload strategy it becomes overpowered.

you sacrifice a whole lot to overload anything in GWs to begin with. Hexways can be toppled with 1 skill alone, so to say that an overload of anything would be an easy way of confusing imbalance with bombardment. IA isnt broken by any means, but in a condition heavy build it can be a massive so of a gun.

you got me in the first part though, and you're right, the thread is on what is most important, not about wishlist, but i still feel that its important overall to open up the skillpool in gw1. Also to note, i still feel like a majority of the skills posted in the OP arent overpowered at all, minus a few of the blatant broken ones (like RaO).

Krill · Sep 10, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

you sacrifice a whole lot to overload anything in GWs to begin with. Hexways can be toppled with 1 skill alone, so to say that an overload of anything would be an easy way of confusing imbalance with bombardment.

If you're thinking empathetic removal, yes it can help you not get steamrolled by hexway builds but that's not the goal, the goal is to grind you down. Which is why these builds usually feature a pack hunter that can quickly spam everyone with conditions and is idiot-proof to run. If you stay on top with your hex removals and interrupting key hexes it's a fair fight, but one slip up can be disastrous. Seriously, once the soul binds get covered they last for ******* ever and you pretty much have to purge sig them out if the monk can't take the hits to heal.

So yeah, it's challenging, maybe even fun to play against hexways one or two times. But when half the bloody teams are running it some nights farming those kewl glads points it's terribly boring. And about the only thing you sacrifice running a hexway build is your brain because there's a long list of powerful offensive and defensive hexes, not exactly a specialty build that takes skill to run properly.

kvndoom · Sep 11, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

9/10 Update: FC water got nerfed (wow, never saw that one coming!). Pretty much nothing else. Loop back to page one, start re-reading thread. Sigh...

Magikarp · Sep 11, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

If you're thinking empathetic removal, yes it can help you not get steamrolled by hexway builds but that's not the goal, the goal is to grind you down. Which is why these builds usually feature a pack hunter that can quickly spam everyone with conditions and is idiot-proof to run. If you stay on top with your hex removals and interrupting key hexes it's a fair fight, but one slip up can be disastrous. Seriously, once the soul binds get covered they last for ******* ever and you pretty much have to purge sig them out if the monk can't take the hits to heal.

So yeah, it's challenging, maybe even fun to play against hexways one or two times. But when half the bloody teams are running it some nights farming those kewl glads points it's terribly boring. And about the only thing you sacrifice running a hexway build is your brain because there's a long list of powerful offensive and defensive hexes, not exactly a specialty build that takes skill to run properly.

and thats what we will continue to suffer from if we continue to want more skills nerfed, and is my entire point. the less usable skills=less and less usable builds=even less fun mirror/clone matches.

as for the update:
very nice!

(damn you steam/GoI/speedsnares..)

valence · Sep 11, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

and thats what we will continue to suffer from if we continue to want more skills nerfed, and is my entire point. the less usable skills=less and less usable builds=even less fun mirror/clone matches.

as for the update:
very nice!

(damn you steam/GoI/speedsnares..)

Those skills see play because they are more op then others, some of them shouldn't have been buffed in the first play.

To make 1 skill bad, another has to be better. To make one skill better, the other has to be worse. It is a nessecary evil to have both bad and good skills, but there is a difference (tho sometimes a fine line) between op and good.

You could say a skill that is 'to good' is allowed when it rewards player skill (see the few months old discussion about gale) but this isn't the case for any of these skills. So why should they allowed to be better then other skills?

Balance creates diversity, a lot of these skills deny any chance of diversity.

edit:

you misunderstand greedy gus his point about an overload setup. A balanced skill can see play in multiple kind of builds, often these hexes can do stuff without the need of other hexes. Take divertion, shame and in lesser extend the water line as an example. They can all work on their own without the need of multiple other characters to get them to work. When a skill is very narrow they usually do something exceptionally good, this is to balance out the narrow usage of the skill. Examples of this includes backfire, rising bile and on the first page ww, they can't do much on their own as they are either to quickly removed or cause their use is very narrow. But when combined they become to strong. There is a difference between balancing and removing skills from play.

Magikarp · Sep 11, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

Those skills see play because they are more op then others, some of them shouldn't have been buffed in the first play.

To make 1 skill bad, another has to be better. To make one skill better, the other has to be worse. It is a nessecary evil to have both bad and good skills, but there is a difference (tho sometimes a fine line) between op and good.

You could say a skill that is 'to good' is allowed when it rewards player skill (see the few months old discussion about gale) but this isn't the case for any of these skills. So why should they allowed to be better then other skills?

Balance creates diversity, a lot of these skills deny any chance of diversity.

so does not having good skills to choose from..

valence · Sep 11, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so does not having good skills to choose from..

then balance the good skills out with the bad ones. This thread is a fine guideline (for arenas).

Riotgear · Sep 11, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so does not having good skills to choose from..

I think you miss the part where skill selection has been dying down more to rampant power creep than nerfs.