Curse

Xanthar · Nov 12, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

It's been said before, but what the heck: Get yourself sufficiently good at the three different basic templates - Damage, support and monking. Play whatever role you feel is not being played in RA that day.

Examples!

Problem 1: You are out monking and can't seem to get a break, it's all dual KD 'sins and BHA rangers out there and all your teams seem to be on a perpetual kamikaze mission, hell bent on being as far outside of your cast range as possible.

Solution 1: Whip out your blindbot and give someone else a chance at successful monking. Instant glad-point.

Problem 2: You are on your physical char, but constantly being hampered by hex stacks so deep you are in periscope mode most of the time and keep dying to degen no matter what you do.

Solution 2: Yank out your mesmer/ranger and get to interrupting those slooooow casting necros, thus allowing some other poor sod to do big damage. If you feel particularly sadistic, or just suck at interrupts, bring a veil as well.

Problem 3: You just don't get any monks or any other healing on your team, meaning you tend to go up against the same bloody team until they get promoted to TA. Depression sets in.

Solution 3: Get on your monk ffs!

(But everyone already KNOWS this, so why keep wasting space eh?

)

scruffy · Nov 12, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

i dont see how an assassin is a threat to a water mesmer when he has blind which messes up their entire combo, its about a 3/4 second cast with fast casting so with the teleport delay you have more than enough time

yes people bring warrior shutdown in RA this is where being good at warrior comes into play knowing how to kill while being shutdown and how to prevent them from shutting you down anymore is key...

i play warrior mainly in RA and its pretty easy to carry your team if you are any good

damage + interupts are universal counters, coincidentally a warrior has both

getting snared as a warrior is probaly the worst shutdown you can have on you assuming the other team understands to run away when you attack them, because your interupts are mainly melee range so if the snarebot is good he can keep you slow almost 24/7 and that makes youre job extremely hard.

fast cast water mes can blind assassins, there they go into the useless pile until their combo recharges(and they eventually get blinded again on round 2), blurr dervs/warriors/rangers, and snare any melee enemies or enemies who are being trained by your wammo.

************************************

I play warrior mainly and in RA, the things X Cytherea X mentioned that shut warriors down generally dont bother me at all.

- you will get hexed or blinded to uselessness.

nah I just wait till their hexes recharge and interupt them...and watch out guys, don't try this at home, but if they put a particularly large stack of long lasting antimelee hexes on me sometimes I try to get them to kill me on purpose so I can be ressed clean as a babys bottom while their hexes are recharging so I have about 10-15 seconds to rape their asshole(which is more than enough time)

- you need adrenaline, good luck building it, and having it when you need it, considering the amount of block and antimelee prevalent.

nah I really don't notice this that much, if a target is blocking me I just switch targets and keep in mind when his block mechanic is going to end so Ican switch onto him later when his stance or w/e is recharging

- fortress monks will laugh at you...

orly? what is a fortress monk? do you mean a monk with a bunch of stances? there are ways of burning stances, but my preferred way of dealing with monks who have like 3 stances is to just kill something else since he has 3 skills that are for self survival his ability to heal others is pretty low, and if you pay attention to what your teammates are attacking you can get a pretty nasty spike if you time it right and switch to his target as he unloads.

- ...thus you will have to attempt "attacks of opportunity" on other targets to get kills, but...

ya i just explained how this works in the last paragraph

- warrior spikes are damaging but often not damaging enough to overwhelm monks' healing (since you're usually not targeting them) without additional damage support that might not be present.

i believe i covered this too, you don't need to spike alone and sometimes the monk with 3 stances just cant cover all the damage your team puts out combined

summary: if you disagree with me you're wrong, water mesmers and warriors are the way to go in RA.

oh yeah: if they dont have any melee for you to shut down as a water mesmer, you still have snares to slow down their kiting, and you have damage from spells like ice shards and glyph immo/steam

if the warrior cant kill the target hes on when its moving 66% slower he should just uninstall because hes training the wrong target, or he just doesn't know how to use his skillbar

Jeydra · Nov 12, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

@scruffy - I think you're exaggerating some things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

yes people bring warrior shutdown in RA this is where being good at warrior comes into play knowing how to kill while being shutdown and how to prevent them from shutting you down anymore is key...

Good Warriors might know how to be reasonably effective while being shutdown, but you must remember: this is RA. Games might last 1 minute and no more, especially if you have no Monk. I've been in games where people bring melee hate and one entire team wipes before the Warrior is even able to build up adrenaline. This problem affects Sins less, who only need one small instance of being hate-free to deal their damage.

Same thing applies to many of your other points. You say antimelee hexes can be interrupted when they recharge, well two things: first you have to be in melee range (and if you are in melee range you are usually the focus of the other guy's attention - meaning he'll be putting antimelee hexes on you quickly), and second you might be very near dead by the time the hexes recharge. You say you can switch targets once he starts blocking and yes, you want to do this, but you might not have time to switch back once you refill your adrenaline because the game might be over already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

summary: if you disagree with me you're wrong, water mesmers and warriors are the way to go in RA.

oh yeah: if they dont have any melee for you to shut down as a water mesmer, you still have snares to slow down their kiting, and you have damage from spells like ice shards and glyph immo/steam

if the warrior cant kill the target hes on when its moving 66% slower he should just uninstall because hes training the wrong target, or he just doesn't know how to use his skillbar

You're assuming a lot of things:

1. You get a Warrior on your team.
2. You get a good Warrior on your team.
3. Your opponents do not include melee hate. If they do, then even if someone is moving 66% slower the Warrior might not kill him.
4. Your opponents do not include a Monk. If they do, then the Monk is going to prot the Snared guy.

And of course Shard Storm + Steam is trifling damage. Even Flare spam does more than that. Once you have no targets, and it does happen quite often, FC Water is pretty bad. I don't like the build in RA. GvG yes. RA, no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

fast cast water mes can blind assassins, there they go into the useless pile until their combo recharges(and they eventually get blinded again on round 2), blurr dervs/warriors/rangers, and snare any melee enemies or enemies who are being trained by your wammo.

orly? what is a fortress monk? do you mean a monk with a bunch of stances? there are ways of burning stances, but my preferred way of dealing with monks who have like 3 stances is to just kill something else since he has 3 skills that are for self survival his ability to heal others is pretty low, and if you pay attention to what your teammates are attacking you can get a pretty nasty spike if you time it right and switch to his target as he unloads.

Water Mesmers can only Blind Assassins if 1) they have Glyph of Immolation up and 2) Steam is recharged. Not always possible. Many Water Mesmers run 3 Fire instead of 8, so Glyph of Immo lasts only 2 spells, it might be down when the Sin spikes. Steam is not always recharged - it has an 8-second cooldown, and there might be more than one target to Blind, or you might've used the damage on someone else (eg. to take down a Monk). And finally if the Sin has anti-Blind like Antidote Signet, that's gg FC Mesmer.

By the way Fortress Monks have the strongest healing abilities in RA. Most carry WoH, Signet of Rejuv and Patient Spirit at 14 Healing Prayers spec. Don't know how you can think otherwise.

X Cytherea X · Nov 12, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

I agree with you ... except in the korean district. It's nothing like the other countries (and you wont meet korean people).
200 glad points mostly with a shutdown mesmer (I played PB and VoR mostly) in korean.
Just try once

And try Shattering Assa, it pwns

i guess when you are sure everyone can do their job, playing a utility caster pays off. that's cool. korea might not be a good place for farming if everyone is so hardcore though. i like euro best cuz they are pretty skilled enough (smarter than america) but dont play so "desperate to win"-like. but i may try korean for kicks a couple times.

there arent enough enchantments worth stripping to make shattering assa worth running imo. yes you can attack fortress monks with it, but you usually wont kill it without extra melee support, that might not be present. id rather kill his teammates with a more damaging chain instead.

Quote:

While I agree that playing a Warrior when your team has no Monk is painful, I disagree that it's totally a bad idea to play Warrior in RA. Antimelee hexes are not all that common (you don't meet Reckless Haste / Price of Failure / Spirit of Failure all at the same time very often), and even when they are present the player with them usually doesn't keep you shut down. Same applies with Blind; when enough Blindbots are around in RA you can always take Antidote Signet or Mending Touch. And aside from Dom Mes - which does not work anyway unless you have damage of some kind - a Warrior is still the most dangerous character to a Monk. They may not be all that damaging compared to a Dervish or Assassin - but they also have shutdown (KDs, interrupts), and they are very tanky as well as least often targetted.

individual skill at playing warrior does help a lot. it gets annoying having to jump through so many hoops though. it's not for everyone.

Quote:

Buddy, if you think antimelee is gay, just wait till you meet anticaster. You play a Monk and there's someone spamming Diversion / Shame / Visions of Regret on you, sometimes even through Veil, and then Broad Head Arrow, Golden Skull Strike and Migraine. And then there's playing a caster and getting marked by a Ranger / Mesmer good enough to consistently interrupt 1-second spells, etc etc.

i like having these guys on my team. they can make the enemy monk or antimelee stfu while i kill things freely. but i guess im biased cuz im never on the receiving end of anticaster stuff since i dont play caster.

Quote:

No matter what you run in Guild Wars, there will always be a counter, and sometimes it's just your luck that someone in RA is running that counter. There's no way you can come up with a build that works against everything; even with Holy Veil + Mending Touch for example you can be overwhelmed by a out-and-out antimelee Necro who removes Veil and stacks hexes on you, or by a Blinding Flash Elementalist with enough energy to spare to engage you in a BFlash vs. Mending Touch duel, or a Warrior who Cripples you with Cripslash and then Savage Slash'es Mending touch, or whatnot. You can't counter everything, and bringing too much counters weakens your build.

yet bringing enough counters can strengthen it 200%. self-cleanup should be maximized by being selective about what to remove, and use that moment of cleanliness to kd the target, preventing further stacking, and get the kill. at times it is not enough, friendly monks can supplement your cleanup. if even then it's not enough, well at least you tried your best. something is better than nothing.

Quote:

i dont see how an assassin is a threat to a water mesmer when he has blind which messes up their entire combo, its about a 3/4 second cast with fast casting so with the teleport delay you have more than enough time

fast cast water mes can blind assassins, there they go into the useless pile until their combo recharges(and they eventually get blinded again on round 2), blurr dervs/warriors/rangers, and snare any melee enemies or enemies who are being trained by your wammo.

self-cleanup and kd, dude. i rip water mesmers/eles to shreds on my assassin.

Quote:

nah I just wait till their hexes recharge and interupt them...and watch out guys, don't try this at home, but if they put a particularly large stack of long lasting antimelee hexes on me sometimes I try to get them to kill me on purpose so I can be ressed clean as a babys bottom while their hexes are recharging so I have about 10-15 seconds to rape their asshole(which is more than enough time)

nah I really don't notice this that much, if a target is blocking me I just switch targets and keep in mind when his block mechanic is going to end so Ican switch onto him later when his stance or w/e is recharging

orly? what is a fortress monk? do you mean a monk with a bunch of stances? there are ways of burning stances, but my preferred way of dealing with monks who have like 3 stances is to just kill something else since he has 3 skills that are for self survival his ability to heal others is pretty low, and if you pay attention to what your teammates are attacking you can get a pretty nasty spike if you time it right and switch to his target as he unloads.

ya i just explained how this works in the last paragraph

you sound like a pretty skilled warrior. that's cool. the stuff you described sure sounds like a lot of hoop-jumping though. i bet you find yourself in losing situations a bit more than you let on (look at Jeydra's post for more detail). like i said earlier, it's not for everyone, when there are other options.

Quote:

i believe i covered this too, you don't need to spike alone and sometimes the monk with 3 stances just cant cover all the damage your team puts out combined

as an assassin or dervish, i usually spike alone. i try to pick the target no one is attacking to maximize my damage potential, which is huge. so while the enemy monk is healing this half-health guy my teammates are hitting, suddenly this full health guy drops to 0. well they sometimes get a patient spirit in (divine favor bonus hooray! it dies before patient's 2secs though) and fail the followup woh.

if a more decent monk saves the target from the initial spike, that's when the real fun begins. i run either moebius or wounding strike, and play tug-of-war with some poor sap's health bar. his monk burns shitloads of energy, but in the end i win and kill him, more often than not. warriors cannot do this to the same extent.

Quote:

if the warrior cant kill the target hes on when its moving 66% slower he should just uninstall because hes training the wrong target, or he just doesn't know how to use his skillbar

but you dont have control over that now do you... thats what i dont like, not having control.

Stoella · Nov 14, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

"And then there's playing a caster and getting marked by a Ranger / Mesmer good enough to consistently interrupt 1-second spells, etc etc. "

I hope you meant 3/4-second spells. If you cannot interrupt 3/4 sec spells with a mesmer, dont play mesmer. If you cannot interrupt 3/4 spells with a ranger at close range, train harder.
PB on WoH is the way to go

(or patient, if you have a KD in your team)

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 04, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

learn to monk and channel tank ha is the way....

Marxon Aurion · Dec 04, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoella

"And then there's playing a caster and getting marked by a Ranger / Mesmer good enough to consistently interrupt 1-second spells, etc etc. "

I hope you meant 3/4-second spells. If you cannot interrupt 3/4 sec spells with a mesmer, dont play mesmer. If you cannot interrupt 3/4 spells with a ranger at close range, train harder.
PB on WoH is the way to go

(or patient, if you have a KD in your team)

Predicting is for Rangers. Pblock and other Mesmer interupts are too costly and important to predict. You are a bad mesmer if you predict your Pblocks lol, even if it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing RA.