Curse

scruffy · Dec 05, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

Hasn't rend existed in its current form for quite awhile? Why is it just now (past month?) getting so much attention/abuse?

cuz it means you dont have to run a dom mesmer for enchant removals on the spike

and can stack 9999 layers of defense instead while still spiking really hard

to answer your question:it took rawr that long to start using it on obs mode for everyone to copy

lutz · Dec 05, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

My thoughts on what the next skill balance should be:
Stuff

Pretty good suggestions, with some notes:
1. PBlock goes through mantras anyway, except on non-attribute spells.
2. Nerfing Pain of Disenchantment like that is ridiculous, it becomes an elite Shatter than. It is not a more versatile attribute line, or else Spiteful Spirit would be run (VoR is better). Dom is a much more versatile line.
3. What does that Gale do?

Cass · Dec 05, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

[Power Block]
Spell. If target foe is casting a spell or chant, that skill is interrupted. The foe is interrupted regardless of any effects that prevent interrupts. The interrupted skill and all skills of the same attribute are disabled for 2..11 seconds for that foe.
15e .25c 20r -> 10e .25c 15r

Makes coincidental PBlocks less powerful but keeps some of it's strength there. (Consider making it a skill instead of a spell so you can't get HSR on it)

[Power Leak]
Spell. If target foe is casting a spell or chant, that skill is interrupted and target foe loses 2..11 Energy.
10e .25c 20r -> 10e .25c 15r

Make it a bit better interrupt wise but a bit less destructive for energy, 20r hurt it alot outside of triple interrupt bars it lost a lot of it's value I think.

[Psychic Instability]
Interrupts through mantras etc.

[Simple Thievery]
Interrupts through mantras etc.
10e .25c 10r -> 10e .25c 5r

These changes to PBlock and PLeak will only serve to make them more spammable. I think that will not make for better play, despite the proposed reduction in effect. Besides, these skills are really fine as they are.

Changes to Psychic Instability and Simple Thievery seem justified. Power Lock should be added to the list of interrupts that should supersede mantras.

Zabe · Dec 05, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

As long as RC keeps healing for bigger numbers than WoH, I highly doubt it being swapped off to BLight, even buffed version. I could only see buffed blight seeing use as like WoH + BLight backline, if you arent completely sure what your opponent is going to run (at the current meta, let it be dual ranger, SBRI or balanced).

ensoriki · Dec 06, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

My thoughts on what the next skill balance should be:
.

Don't exactly agree with everything, but generally anything I disagree with even slightly has pretty much already been said....but...
lemme...just...slip in....buff to sin utility *cough*...it will only take a moment....mmm...there we go...

Sadchaos · Dec 06, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

please nerf rend. Ridiculously overpowered. /sign

Byron · Dec 08, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Rend is only a tool of the greater problem, 3-2-1 meta. Nerf rend and we'll find some other removal to 3-2-1 with.

Has WE been nerfed yet?

Boogz · Dec 09, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

can we turn rend enchants into the new smiter's boon and then buff Shatterstorm?

Phe Belladona · Dec 09, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

These changes to PBlock and PLeak will only serve to make them more spammable. I think that will not make for better play, despite the proposed reduction in effect. Besides, these skills are really fine as they are.

Changes to Psychic Instability and Simple Thievery seem justified. Power Lock should be added to the list of interrupts that should supersede mantras.

Power Lock cant go through mantras because it functions like dis shot as it ADDS recharge when the spell is stopped in its cast, these skills dont DISABLE the skill which is how PD and PB go through the mantra because the skill is set to recharge. Psy Instab and Simple should already go through mantras because their effect should trigger as it hits the spell regardless of stopping it, like PLeak still knocks off energy or PDrain gives you energy regardless of the spell being interupted, this would ofc cause the target to be KD'd (interupting by the effect of that unless stablilitied or w/e) or the skill to be disabled and stolen (again interupting by effect of disabling like PD or PB) These 2 skills should have always functioned like this as its the way EVERY mesmer interupt works, anet just messed up when writing the computery thingy that works the skills. But yeh it was worth Mitch bringing up old problems that should have been fix'd, i did mention they should function properly when they were first changed but meh it was largely ignored.

It might be interesting to shake up PLeak and PBlock a bit see how they function under lower recharge and lower effect for a bit tho PBlock i'd rather see at something more along the lines of blackout than Mitch's still quite hefty disable. And its not as if he's suggesting PLeak goes back to 12 recharge -19 energy mmmmmm that was so good, i actually used Echo when it was like that and just spammed monks to death... *sniff* good times

makosi · Dec 09, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

I've been QQing about Rend since 2005 and Gaze of Contempt since Factions release. Enchants have become more and more fragile as time has passed with crap like Order of Apostasy, Rip Enchantment, Rending Touch etc. 99% of the time Eles and Monks are dependent on Enchants and there's little that you can do to stop yourself from being Drained, Ripped, Shattered, Inspired, Rended and Gazed. After 30 seconds, an Ele without an attunement is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

You could always use one of those crappy Second Wind or Ether Prism elites for energy management and sacrifice a proper elite. *shudder*

The smart player will cover their key enchants but Rend undermines that whole technique.

I Angra I · Dec 09, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Rend is only a tool of the greater problem, 3-2-1 meta. Nerf rend and we'll find some other removal to 3-2-1 with.

Has WE been nerfed yet?

Well, rend is only part of the problem, yes, but I think it's still a pretty big problem. Like I sort of said in my original post, the 3 main problems that facilitate super defensive spike builds currently are turret rangers able to dish out tons of midline damage very quickly, fc water mesmers being far beyond the scope of what any elementalist can do defensively, and rend enchantments being able to strip everything short of warding from a target every 20s with incredibly minimal drawbacks.

Byron · Dec 09, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

MB Angra. Didn't read the OP, or anything besides the title, tbh.

Buff bsurge - bring the old midline hate/anti-hate battles back. It would at least mitigate the spike stuff.

Krill · Dec 09, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Who would honestly play b-surge over FC water when steam is so good and water has more utility? I'm afraid FC water won't die until water has been nerfed out of existence or something is done about FC itself.

BoondockSaint · Dec 09, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Rend is a bit overpowered and is a big part of spikes. Though, as mentioned before it will not solve spiking in genreal. While I have nothing against spike, they are often times very fun to pull off, there needs to be either better counters of insentives to run something other then spike.

I alway wondered if they could buff [Angelic Protection] so that it would be worth bringing along to counter spikers.

As for rend I think the damage should be increased.

SurareVaera · Dec 09, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I don't think you can nerf rend without doing something about gaze of contempt too. If rend gets nerfed, i'm pretty sure people will replace it with gaze and we'll have to suffer through another 2 months of guru forums QQ since the root of the problem won't be fixed.

There's something wrong when non-elite, unlinked or nearly unlinked (req 6 curses) enchant removal skills (Gaze, Rend, Mirror) outpace elite options like Shatterstorm.

Another problem i have is with Keen Arrow and Sloth Hunter's Shot:

Keen Arrow - 5E, 6R, +5...+17, +5...+29 on critical
Sloth Hunter's - 10E, 8R, +5...+17, +5...+21 if not using a skill

While Sloth Hunter's is nearly guaranteed if the spike target is knocked-down, the disparity between the skills in relation to cost and recharge is unmistakable; Keen Arrow needs to be at least 10E, 8R.

I Jonas I · Dec 10, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Change to:

Rend Enchantments
* 5 Energy
* 1 Activation
* 20 Recharge
Spell. Remove 5...8...9 enchantments from target foe. For each Monk enchantment removed, you take 55...31...25 damage. (50% failure chance with Curses 9 or less)

scruffy · Dec 10, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

that will only make people have less options on what builds they can use, since every1 will be specing 9 into curses if you do that...

the actual function of the skill needs to be changed, so that its not so must-have that everyone needs it in their build

my idea of what it could be:

hex spell 5 energy, 20 second recharge,1 second cast time: enchantments on target foe have 50% shorter durations lasts 5-15 seconds

Celeborn10 · Dec 11, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

that will only make people have less options on what builds they can use, since every1 will be specing 9 into curses if you do that...

the actual function of the skill needs to be changed, so that its not so must-have that everyone needs it in their build

my idea of what it could be:

hex spell 5 energy, 20 second recharge,1 second cast time: enchantments on target foe have 50% shorter durations lasts 5-15 seconds

Hmm, isn't there some elite that already does that?

thor hammerbane · Dec 11, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Changing rend to dmg for all enchants wouldn't really do much, considering the main point of it is removing prots for spike..Only enchants you need to remove are monk ones. I'd personally like to see the skill bumped energy wise, perhaps 10, or even 15. Hell, mirror of disenchant was 15, high cost, but a price to pay to remove party wide enchants. I think 15e would balance it out, wouldnt be as spammable.

Also, FC mesmers aint bad. What people should try is actually running a regular dom mesmer in their build..The beauty of the FC mes is that the casting times are so fast, they can't be cancelled. If people tried to reverting to the older meta of actually running a dom mesmer, FC mesmers wouldnt be a problem.

scruffy · Dec 11, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

my problem with balancing rend, and spells in general by energy cost is that there will be a threshold where it's either completely useless to some builds and to others it will be just as broken as it is now