Curse

deluxe · Nov 30, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

There's still [[gaze of contempt]

Sakura Az · Nov 30, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

my thought on rend is to just double the damage taken. makes it more risky to take at lower spec

LifesRestorer · Nov 30, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

up damage taken, change 'each monk enchantment' to 'each enchantment'

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 30, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

With prot and various enchantments being so damn fundamental to GW, stupidly retarded enchantment removal (read: just about every necro skill that's been buffed in the last year) is bad. Rend was unusable at 3A - 30R, it's too powerful at 1A - 20R, so I'd probably just tweak activation / recharge again. I dunno, 2A still asks for continued activation on mesmers (fast cast says lol) and zero use on necros, and the effect of taking everything off the target is just stupid.

And just so we can get this out of the way, upping the damage or modifying rend so it hurts you on every enchantment removed is not a solution; the former because unless the damage increase is astronomical people will just use rend anyways, and the latter because there are only like ten non-prot enchantments across all formats which see regular use.

Age · Nov 30, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Yes please fix rend enchantment and no FC Mesmers don't need to be fixed.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 30, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I think Rend Enchantments should have an AoE effect.

Molock · Dec 01, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Imo Curses spec should have a larger influence on the skill.
Start at 1 enchantment at 0 spec and work up from there. Something like 4 enchantments removed at 12 curses (13 being the breakpoint for 5 and 16 for 6). Damage wise, start at 85 dmg at 0 spec and decrease by 3 or 4 per curses spec. All enchantments removed cause damage. Cast time stays, 1 second. Recharge to 30 seconds.

This way you get rewarded for using Rend in a mainly Curses spec'ed build and it would become much less effective as a secondary skill on an ele, ranger or whatever.

Gforce · Dec 01, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Im not really sure on this, I dont really play highend gvg, but I play a lot of midend gvg and I dont really notice the skill a lot there.

People are saying that because of rend, you need to bring zero offense. Well seriously: rend has been like that for a while and before that people used shatter enchantment. Also, WoW is not removable and therefor will stop these kind of spikes. Half the teams have a standrit nowadays and should have enough copies of WoW to still preprot a spike.

The midlines need to be toned down also, FC snare needs one of the defense layers removed (or everything interuptable, shatterstone eles are fine), and the turret rangers do too much damage while providing shutdown for all defense but FC snare...

Giving the other remaining shadowsteps an aftercast would help for bad stand rits to still preprot with WoW btw...

Phe Belladona · Dec 01, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gforce

Im not really sure on this, I dont really play highend gvg, but I play a lot of midend gvg and I dont really notice the skill a lot there.

People are saying that because of rend, you need to bring zero offense. Well seriously: rend has been like that for a while and before that people used shatter enchantment. Also, WoW is not removable and therefor will stop these kind of spikes. Half the teams have a standrit nowadays and should have enough copies of WoW to still preprot a spike.

The midlines need to be toned down also, FC snare needs one of the defense layers removed (or everything interuptable, shatterstone eles are fine), and the turret rangers do too much damage while providing shutdown for all defense but FC snare...

Giving the other remaining shadowsteps an aftercast would help for bad stand rits to still preprot with WoW btw...

ok.. you are implying that rend doesnt mean you bring less offense BUT you then go on to say that half the teams have a stand rit. you also are saying that rend is ok because weapon of warding will still portect the spiked target, way to say 1 OP skill is ok by mentioning another one

im not even going to talk about you comparing rend and shatter cause that was just put in as a joke right?

FoxBat · Dec 01, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Rend used to fail against ward vs melee, and FC water is nothing compared to the old bsurge. You used to need a mesmer to shut down the superpowered defense midliner long enough to score kills, as Ensign accurately noted long ago, nerfing those def midliner means that mesmers are less essential and you can get away just rending/PoDing stuff. Also, pew pew contributes a ton to these spikes, which didn't exist until Izzy introduced 1s attacks. It did take people a bit to figure out how to abuse this, but it's not like this has been around forever.

Productivity · Dec 01, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

The sooner you realise that ANet doesn't give a shit about supporting competitive PVP in GW and that Izzy has no serious oversight of what he's doing and has a completely different view of what balance should look like to the majority of the PVP community (ie. he views degenerate but 'interesting' builds as good), the happier you will be.

Nothing significant will change in how PVP is handled without major changes within the management hierarchy of ANet and Izzy being sacked. The chances of either of those happening are low.

There is no point fixing rend enchantments, as when it is fixed, something else equally retarded will be buffed and replace it. Abuse what you can and if you don't enjoy it, do something else other than GW is my suggestion.

Gforce · Dec 01, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

ok.. you are implying that rend doesnt mean you bring less offense BUT you then go on to say that half the teams have a stand rit. you also are saying that rend is ok because weapon of warding will still portect the spiked target, way to say 1 OP skill is ok by mentioning another one

im not even going to talk about you comparing rend and shatter cause that was just put in as a joke right?

Basicly if they would nerf the retarded spike templates (MoI FC snare, WE warriors with shadowfang) the spike would be infusable and there would be no problem. Everyone has a lot of defense because they dont need more damge, I really dont think bringing rend and bringing defense are linked.

You dont even need rend if you interupt aegis and do a good spike...

scruffy · Dec 01, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

rend could just go 2 second cast, 30 second recharge?

weapon of warding should end after it blocks a certain amount of attacks, like 5 or something

maybe to stop turret rangers you can change read the wind so that it doesn't make your arrows travel faster, change 1's cast attacks to normal attack speed

I'd say nerf all the other retarded shit first, then look at water mesmers to see if they still look imba, if they do, change it so that steam costs 10 energy

Killed u man · Dec 01, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Buff Rend Enchantments
--------------------------
1+ YEAR
--------------------------
Redicilous buffs to physical damage
--------------------------
1 MONTH
--------------------------
People crying about Rend Enchantments

Am I the only one that's not jumping on the bandwagon here, and seeing the flaw in this logic.

Rend Enchantments has been like this for the past... 2 years I believe, and NOW all of a sudden it's overpowered? Lolwut?

Imo, ViM needs a nerf aswell, aswell as Jaggedway and SoMW.

Let's see:

BIG skill update one month ago that buffed phsyical damage to insane amounts

People complaining about collapsing too fast under few enemy physicals.

Once again, am I the only one that sees the flaw?

Yes, rend enchantments IS overpowered, but the very base of your arguement makes no sense at all.

If you want to take "steps closer to balancing this game", well, then start with more recent updates, and work your way back to Proph '05.

Instead of nerfing Rend, which COULD do with a nerf (don't get me wrong), let's nerf these redicilous 3-2-1 WE and Ranger templates. Rangers are BY FAR the most overpowered class in GW atm (for the past years really), They can pressure more (poison/conditions), have more shutdown (Savage/Dshot should have been nerfed A LONG time ago, Dshot should have been Elite a VERY LONG TIME AGO), and now can spike more than anything else. Even with all these nerfs, 120+ Dmg Keens and Sloth's are seen.

Don't nerf the things that have been in this game for a long time (2years), nerf the recent additions first. Well, that's what a smart player would do...

shoogi · Dec 01, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

@borat

1. what big buff to physicals are you talking about. The only skill balance in the last month was nerf to ED and N/A.

2. Rend has been complained about for a long time.

3. When will you finally understand that the problem with your wretched rspike isn't the damage each ranger does, it is the tons of utility and defense the build has, which pure spike build shoudn't have.

Ec]-[oMaN · Dec 01, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Sure Rend has been around for ages, it's just that now after all this time has passed, that teams are bringing it in any spike build. It's a broken staple now. Why is it that besides gaze, the only other enchant removals that can compare are ELITE...Hi Izzy time to take a look. One of which you need to spend points for it rip 3+enchants and cause dmg. The other needing no att investment yet increasing in recharge for each ripped, and is Elite!!!. Spike builds have always been big in GW and shown tons of success, I just think now they're much easier to pull off. Builds now can pressure fairly well, and spike, where as before it was either or.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

@borat

1. what big buff to physicals are you talking about. The only skill balance in the last month was nerf to ED and N/A.

[Warriors Endurance], any conjure, rangers with almost instant bow attacks..

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 01, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Rend Enchantments has been like this for the past... 2 years I believe, and NOW all of a sudden it's overpowered? Lolwut?

Two years ago, Rend was 10E, 3 A / 30 R. It wasn't until like a year and a half ago that they decreased the E and A costs, and it wasn't until last year that they improved the recharge. I see your point; Rend Enchantments wasn't really considered broken until recently, and it's had the same functionality for almost a year. At any rate, I think the current problems stem from other things besides just Rend Enchantments, and I don't think the Burning Arrow / ED Pewpews or Warrior's Endurance are the major problems either.

Ec]-[oMaN · Dec 01, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

and I don't think the Burning Arrow / ED Pewpews or Warrior's Endurance are the major problems either.

They aren't the biggest major problems, just half of the problem. From about summer 07 and just after, layered passive defense took a huge hit in the face. In that time phsyical dmg has increased, recharges for such dmg sources have been lowered, and you go from all the previous passive layered d, to one mesly blind and blured on a midliner, and monks with aegis at most. Pick your target. People have been moaing hardcore about these midline fast cast ele's, a joke compared to wards+aegis+da+aoe blind+weakness+lod.

xDusT II · Dec 02, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Rend Enchantments has been like this for the past... 2 years I believe, and NOW all of a sudden it's overpowered? Lolwut?

I c wut u did thar

scruffy · Dec 02, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

If I logged on tommorow and someone told me they nerfed ranger spike damage, I would hit B and expect to see teams running another air ele instead.

Having enough defense to be immune to pressure and stop ganks dead in their tracks while spiking at the flag stand, or pushing their base to dmg lord is just too strong of a tactic atm.

At the moment its just to easy to defend vrs splits, you send back 1 guy to deal with 2 people, 2 guys to deal with 3 people, 3 guys to deal with 4+ people and you just keep pushing them in the front.

You think by nerfing 1 spike ranger build and 1 enchant removal teams are gonna stop running rawr-way? It's just so easy to put 5 defense spells and 2 spike skills on the same character and get kills while being immune to anything but spikes. You need to give people a reason to use anything else first.

The issue at the heart of the problem imo, is builds in general, whether for offense or for defense, are too good. You used to have to choose what you wanted: damage,utility or defense. Builds are so good now that the bar is shit unless it has all 3.

Now, because builds are so good, its the offense builds that lose out because 1 defense character can keep multiple offense characters at bay while just spiking and getting kills by bypassing the enemies defense entirely.

8 good players with bad builds relying on intelligent play to win rather than 1 dominant strategy is fun, 8 people with super charged builds spiking eachother down 8v8 at stand is boring.

It's most likely too late for GW1, and i hope they don't make the same mistakes in GW2.