Curse

gof_lynx · Nov 11, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

This is a petition to bring back old maps back into HA, i know it prbably wont happen, but something new needs to happen to *refreshen* HA, Scarred Earth, Broken Tower, and Sacred Temples were some great maps, maybe the developer team could come up with new ways to implement relic runs on maps like broken tower, short run distance but oh well, just adding my opinion, every one knows HA is dead and it would take a lot to help it out. Maybe this will get around to the devs and something might just happen

pls no flaming on this topic, just opinions and ign's

Vial

[Morkai] · Nov 11, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Yes. Bringing old content back is the way to fix something that is dead from lack of content.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 11, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I can't remember the original reasons for removing those maps, so I'm going to support bringing them back into rotation unless someone can tell me why they were so bad.

wind fire and ice · Nov 11, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I can't remember the original reasons for removing those maps, so I'm going to support bringing them back into rotation unless someone can tell me why they were so bad.

Agree'd with him,any different content(even if it is old) is better then the same thing over and over again.

If theres no very good reason they were removed,why not bring them back?

Konig Des Todes · Nov 11, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I also believe that Tombs should be extended to contain all/most HoH maps.

Make it a bit more challenging for those perma SF Tomb Gree Farmers. (no need for ecto dropping enemies in the extra levels).

Ciric · Nov 11, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Yes and No some map changes need to be made but not "to stir things up" but to introduce many more unique situations so builds can not bring all the utility needed to win every map.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 11, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

What if they decided to make a new map for Halls?

Ciric · Nov 11, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

What if they decided to make a new map for Halls?

lol12char

but seriously, the GW team is to devoted to GW2 (as they should be) to make totally new maps for HA.

Cookies Loves You · Nov 11, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

/signed

bring back holding or change RA/TA/GVG, into map based games. And i'm waiting to hear, "I CaNtZ KiLl TeH GhOsT". All this Relic run and capture points killed HA,

Aera · Nov 11, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

lol12char

but seriously, the GW team is to devoted to GW2 (as they should be) to make totally new maps for HA.

There might not be an HA-type PVP in GW2.

Also, holding halls was fun

Skyros · Nov 11, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

you just gave kyp jade a huge chubby

Kyp Jade · Nov 11, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

I detect a post full of win

In all honesty however, Ciric is right on the money (except that he didnt mention sacred in his post)
Skills have been put into the game such that build wars isnt the effect of a stale meta, its build wars because its the only way to play.

You HAVE to fit
Weapon of Gayness (warding)
Make Haste
Song Conc
Aura of Stab
Ward of Foes
Weapon of warding
Death Pact Sig

-----------
If nothing else, aura of stability really really REALLY has to go, this skill is just WAY to strong on relic runs when stacked with holy veil. Congrats on making ward against foes the only snare in the game the works in tombz to any noticable degree.
-----------

In every single build you make you take these skills, or you lose before you start, really limits what, and how you can play. Also, as much as I hate the new ab maps in HA, they were actually good at the time to implement in HA, because at the time, they really cockblocked some of the really gay builds in the meta (spike builds). But, making 4 of the maps in rotation be simple kill the other team maps is BAD for the game, because having so many kill maps reduces the need to play a balanced build, so you can play a holding build (something with all of the skills listed above, sometimes in multiples!!!)

Kill count was good in the rotation for the same reason the AB maps were good when they were added, they prevented certain types of builds that were able to play on every map and crush everything. Unfortunatly, at the time they didnt stop everything, and I'm sure the others around at the time got frustrated when lego began playing his gvg inspired legoway in tombz, which had the advantage on every map objective hands down. (its like today, the strongest build is 2wars, fire, rit, ranger, mesmer, 2 monks if you have players that can do that)

Probably the best thing for tombz (as much as I hate the stupid abmaps)

Underworld
Broken Tower (3 way kill count)
Unholy Temples
Forgotten Gayness
Dark Chambers
Courtyard (Altar hold)
Sacred Win
HoH (3 objectives, abgayness, relic, king of the hill)

-On kill count maps, ghostly should not be worth extra points
-On forgotten gayness, revert map to its original form
-On king of the hill maps, keep it the same for matches that begin as 3 way, change it to last to cap for matches that begin as 1v1
-On relic runs, smiterboon aura of stability
-On Cap points, find some other tie breaker besides last kill wins, or add a fourth shrine up where the HoH chest spawns
-Require Sacred temples before advancing to HoH
-Require Sacred temples before advancing to HoH
-Require Sacred temples before advancing to HoH
-Require Sacred temples before advancing to HoH
-Require Sacred temples before advancing to HoH

that is all

Gift3d · Nov 11, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

What if they decided to make a new map for Halls?

only thing they need to do with halls is take out capture points. that shit's just annoying and ridiculous.

Ciric · Nov 11, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

There might not be an HA-type PVP in GW2.

Also, holding halls was fun

Reports are that there is NOT going to be HA sytle PVP in GW2

Binary · Nov 11, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Signed, but sorry to burst your bubble; this is not going to happen. They were removed for a reason in the first place, remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berek

Yes. Bringing old content back is the way to fix something that is dead from lack of content.

Oh god, can you guys drop it already? Guild Wars is not dead, and it's far from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

Reports are that there is NOT going to be HA sytle PVP in GW2

Lykan · Nov 11, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

.. stuff

I agree with most of that, requirement to have to play certain maps before hoh is a good idea or maybe just a certain no. of maps.

I do not agree that bringing kill count back is a good idea.

The programming code for kill count should be placed on a disc and then the disc should be hit with a hammer, burned and buried. And then the person who implemented kill count maps into GW in the first place should be hit with a hammer, burned and buried.

shadows of hob · Nov 11, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Ye, bring back kill count. We really need more SFway in HA.

/sarcasme off

Like Kyp stated, there is a very limited amount of what you can play in HA atm, because any kind of serious team needs mh/song/aura/wow/foes/etc.

What would be nice to change the current meta, is to rotate the maps a bit. 1 week there would be altar holding, other week kill count. For all the scarred earth lovers, that map would be unplayable for at least 1/2 of the day, because there are just not enough people playing to get that map full.

Killed u man · Nov 12, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Kill Count is bad. How is promoting spike builds, in any situation, good? Worse, how is promoting retarded AoE, or fast, spikes (SF, Rspike) good?

Since when exactly did we decide that playing Rspike, Ritspike, Shitspikes (Warriors, Dervishes with Eles and rangers, pretty much any rainbowspike) deserves to be promoted over pressure builds, including the good old gimmicks (Hexway, Spirit Pressure, Condi Pressure)?

Yes, it filters out some redicilous farming builds, such as Hway, but it also promotes redicilously fast spiking builds, such as SF. How is that fair in any way? Or are you here to argue that playing Rspike, or Sfspike, requires more skill than running Heroway?

I haven't even started on the fact that 3-way, ANY mechanic other than Old-school holding, will only be worse, or in best case scenarion: even, as old-school holding itself, if you look at it from a "fair" and "ganking" perspective.
Kill Count for a pressure build means auto-loss, so they can either resign (1% HA will do this), or gank the team they don't like (99% of HA will do this).

Kill count, regardless of how you put it, mod it, explain it, is, and always will be a bad mechanic, if you're trying to promote build diversity (and thus a "balanced" HA)

Yes, if it's Anet's intention to promote lol-imba spikes (Rspike/SFspike) then I can understand why they would want to put this in, and from the looks of things, current HA meta, I can actually see this mechanic being implemented, Izzy as stupid as he is.

I prefer spikes, but I'm fair enough, and I've played more builds than anyone else so I KNOW what is fair, to admit that Kill Count certainly does not filter out the "gimmick"-fame farming builds. It simply relocates them from "button-bash pressure" (Hway, NR/tranq, etc...) to "button-bash spikes" (SF, Rspike, ...).

I do agree on the HoH conditions being redicilous.

Aside from all the bullsheit on ganking, balanced this, balanced that:

Relic Run is, and ALWAYS WILL BE a bad HoH-mechanic. Having Make haste is 10% of Victory. Having some Snares is 13% (Increases a little bit if you have more snares) of Victory. Skill is the last 10% of Victory. The other 66% Chance to win is equally devided amongst the other 2 teams.
Relic Run is random. Half the time, the Heroway without snares, skill or alot of running power wins, because of the randomness in snaring.

When good teams fight eachother, you actually have to AVOID being ahead, or you'll get f*cked in the last minute, how is that for "skill-full" play. It comes down to AVOID getting snared, whilst you avoid snaring anyone else, and let the other 2 teams engage at eachother, so u can secure your victory in the last minute by taking both of them out of the game. This is not skill, this psychology. This is not even psychology, as more often than not, players in HA don't even have a brain, and you see teams (r10+ thumper and shheit) snaring a team that's already 3-4 relic behind.

You can't play Chess with 3 people, and nor can you do with Relic Run.

Cap Points is gank fest. You can add extra shrines, you can introduce forced resign when you can't win anymore, it won't stop the ganking. Whereas ganking doesn't reflect HoH conditions, and skillfull play, it simply is TO PROMINENT TO BE IGNORED.
And it's only getting worse, I haven't even seen a non-gank Cap Points map in the past 2-3 months orso...
Heck, Spartan (From gank) forms up his gankway every day, and succesfully gets to HoH every day aswell, just to piss people off by ganking them.

The only way I can see this work, is by having "ganking" being a form a unsupportive PvP play. The same way players in RA get dishonorable after being reported a few times, and/or leaving the match, people should have a longer HA-dishonerable. (Which counts in a few hours/days)

If teams get reported for ganking a few times (16-24 Obviously per 8; since you have 8 people on your team being there to report), they should get an instant 1-2 hours "ban" from HA, which can, if more reports are being made, be extended to a few days.

Observing through observer should be possible, so people who observe can also judge wether or not they ganked. Offcorse abuse should be checked, and there should be the same punishment for abusing. (Have an official person check the match on observer -ANY match where a gank-report has been made should be saved for 1-2 days their servers)
As I can see some people, whose name I won't mention (BONGO cough), being unsupportive enough to get their intire guild to report people over observer, just for fun, to screw him over.
Abusing this feature should then turn into the same offence as the initial report, a few hours/days ban from HA, AND an actaul banable offence, "abusing the report function".

Other than that, Cap Points still fails, and only promotes playing on the center altar, aka hyper Defence/AoE.

Old school holding is the way to go. You can win with 1 Monk, you can win with 8 of them. Everything in between works, and you can experiment with alot of things, unlike current objectives. You don't need the million aoe damage or snares, you don't need the insane speed buffs or shutdown.

All you need is some basic form of defence, which can be put onto 2 skills bars (Monks) and then you have 6 full bars to toy around with.

shoogi · Nov 12, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

1. No one has any slightest idea about why Sacred was removed from rotation.

2. AB shit has to go, espcially from HoH (i hurd gankin wuz teh l33t).

3. DP has to come back to all maps.

4. I had this idea about broken tower- How about 1v1 koth with one of those bonus shrines at where yellow base used to be? Could be health, energy, bcry (nerfed version probably), morale shrine (functions like flag stand, but with normal capping instead of flag), or maybe even one of those hb cannons that will 321boomwtflolmao the altar! Res shrine every minute, dp is ofc enabled, ghost is used to cap altar (duh) and for +4 pips at bonus shrine as well, if anyone would want to use him for that. Of course there is no chance for this happening in the near lifetime but it's still a nice idea I think :P

5. edit- very good post from borat about why kill count shouldn't return and why hoh relics is a complete waste of time.

Kyp Jade · Nov 12, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Kill Count for a pressure build means auto-loss, so they can either resign (1% HA will do this), or gank the team they don't like (99% of HA will do this).

WHile your post is strong, and mostly true, this statement right here is just enough that you should /facepalm

Killcount for hex/condition/degen pressure, means autoloss (which is a GOOD thing, because these builds are the roll your face on your keyboard and do well builds)

Killcount for warrior or aoe pressure, is far, FAR from an autoloss. The standard two warrior build in HA now, will be dominant on kill count. Unfortunatly, so will smiterway, (heroes should never be that strong in 8man arenas imo) Even [Dong] style iway will be great on killcount with a couple of skill changes on a paragon, and they have no aoe to speak of.

Also, from the countless attempts on teams to gank me in killcount maps (especially by the spike builds with thier "advantage", I need to just say it is hard to gank a good team on killcount unless your snarer is very, very good.

That being said, something like killcount in the rotation, where the focus is on raw damage, movement, and ranged snare ability is needed to keep some of the rollfaceonkeyboardandwin builds discouraged, and it needs to be early in rotation