Curse

Maximumraver · Dec 14, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

life sheath is good for bar compression, which makes it very good on an arena monk.

behold! my incredibly manly monk:
guardian
patient spirit/gift of health
life sheath
savage slash
holy veil
spirit bond
bull's strike
shield bash

in soviet russia, monks shutdown you!

Nice, that made me laugh.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 14, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I think you're missing the biggest pro of RC: the 150+ heal.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Kumlekar · Dec 14, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

As a noob I'm throwing my two cents in. I could see LS taking over in all smaller format arenas, and maybe even in gvg due to the split nature. Even so, I highly doubt its going to touch RC in HA. RC has a strong heal as long as conditions are removed. LS only heals if the target takes a significant amount of damage. True, it can prevent 80+ and heal 80+, but that still requires the target to be hit by somethign fairly hard. an auto-attack will waste the LS.

Div · Dec 14, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Arenas - LS because you self target.

Quote:

I could see LS taking over in all smaller format arenas

I don't do RA/TA much, but since no one runs RC there to begin with, isn't it silly to compare LS with RC in the arenas? Or are people actually suggesting that it'll get played over WoH, though I highly doubt it...

I'm still a fan of RC over LS for general purposes, but for all you LS fanboys out there, Tommy said he likes it too.

Kumlekar · Dec 14, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Fair enough, the only place that I see them being comparable is gvg. I take it noone is considering peace and harmony? No heal on it, but absolutely destroys hex heavy teams, and does a pretty damn god job against cinditions too.

-Pluto- · Dec 14, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

i'd have pegged Tommy as an LS supporter right from the start.

Of course, this discussion doesn't matter. Instead we get to witness the return of a glorious divert hexes meta!

Yay?

moko · Dec 14, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I don't do RA/TA much, but since no one runs RC there to begin with, isn't it silly to compare LS with RC in the arenas? Or are people actually suggesting that it'll get played over WoH, though I highly doubt it...

in the standart balanced setup with FF, there's still no place for LS. however, taking LS allows more options on team builds now. the bar compression is really useful; the effect can easily be noticed in such a low setup.

LS also shines vs the new dual Palm Strike abuses, whereas FF would simply get raped over and over by training the nec to death.

LS is also really awesome in RA:> allows space for PS (for the 400 health nubs etc) and some other funneh prot, just like a ZB bar, but better.

for HA i don't see it taking over; draw spam and rc spam under channeling are effective enough, and the huge heal from RC is gud.

for GvG i assume it could work.

Byron · Dec 15, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Sheath is pretty cool for bar compression, if you figure that you can do without the healing power. You can fit a useful small prot in there, like shielding hands, or you can be weird and take gift of health.

Or, having witnessed this past weekend, you could maybe shimmy in purge signet, a second small hex removal, or even dwayna's kiss.

I Jonas I · Dec 16, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

RC vs Life Sheath might become a matter of preference, like running stances on monks vs Aegis chains vs (well not really anymore) hex breaker

-Pluto- · Dec 16, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Or, having witnessed this past weekend, you could maybe shimmy in purge signet, a second small hex removal, or even dwayna's kiss.

I kind of like the idea of divine healing + deny hexes if you're expecting to face a lot of hex teams. I like it even better than the old divine spirit + deny people used to run.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 18, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I think the thing with LS is that the two combined effects of a one shot prot and condition removal don't synergize too well. The traditional skill, RoF, is used to prot against attacks/spells that you didn't forsee, or an unexpected attack. Not something you generally should or need to spam.

LS, on the other hand, does the same thing, but also removes two conditions.

The two benefits of one "pulse" of hard prot and condition removal do not synergize because while a pulse of hard prot should be used sparingly, condition removal is needed a lot more. Due to a need for bar compression, this skills forces a player to use LS on an ally that might just have conditions on him but not under pressure, wasting the heal/damage reduction aspect.

Of course, this spell shines when one of your allies is spiked with a deep wound. But is Life Sheath really worth your elite spot?

That didn't really come out aswell as I thought it would, so I don't think most people will understand.

FoxBat · Dec 18, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

On the other hand, RCing blind/burning off warriors is usually a wasted heal. Sheath gets that job done faster, which is better for enabling your spikes. Another major plus is the self-targeting aspect. Finally, it opens up the option to heal even when someone isn't conditioned (gift of health goes in the slot), especially useful if you are stuck in some godawful split.

Fuzzy Taco · Dec 20, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Life Sheath is just a wonderful, wonderful way to catch Rendspikes with DW now.

I agree with all posted before me saying that RC is a massive heal, and that Life Sheath's RoF effect will likely be wasted when used as pure condition removal, but i think in the current state of things, LS is better in GvG, and RC is better in HA. In arenas, WoH still reigns supreme on a primary healer's bar. In HA, there's no reason to pass up Channeltanking Draw and RC spam on your monks. It's a tried-and-true, extremely useful function of the standard HA backline that would suck to lose. I think that the super-infuse of an HB monk in HA, as well as RoF and/or Spirit Bond on our beloved RC, should be able to handle anything LS could. Condition pressure still remains strong in HA, so i think it would be a pretty steep loss to yank RC out of most HA teams. In GvG, Life Sheath operates as a sort of super condition removal skill - a Mending Touch without the ugly cast time, a shorter recharge, and a RoF effect. Regardless of whether or not the RoF effect is proc'd, the condition removal is still efficient. The question then becomes is it better than RC's super heal? I believe that, in the totally broken state of things, it is better. The ability to still pack Patient (if your monks are coordinated enough not to overlap) or Gift is kind of nice, but its real strength lies in its ability to catch gimmickspike. catching 321s with a RoF and ripping of DW is a valuable asset in the era of Rend and WE we're floating in right now. Plus, with the prevalence of these rendspike teams alongside Hex teams, we're not seeing as many pressuring condition stacks of RC food as we're used to.

Discussing hex teams means we need to include Divert Hexes in this whole debate - the monk elite alongside WoH will either be a hex eater, a spike catcher, or a pressure reliever/red bar manager. Honestly, i think they're all very flexible options that should be dependent on the rest of the team's makeup more than anything else, but i'm a really big proponent of the new Life Sheath. Also, I am totally trying out moriz's monk bar.

tl;dr: I like Life Sheath, but that doesn't mean it should be glued to your HA/Arena bar - and, in some cases, you might want to keep it off your GvG backline, too. But it's still pro cond remover / spike catcher. Also, hexes.

Jeydra · Dec 20, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I don't do RA/TA much, but since no one runs RC there to begin with, isn't it silly to compare LS with RC in the arenas? Or are people actually suggesting that it'll get played over WoH, though I highly doubt it...

I'm still a fan of RC over LS for general purposes, but for all you LS fanboys out there, Tommy said he likes it too.

Thing about Monks is that, without the elite, you can't heal very well. I've tried to run Shield of Deflection, Aura of Faith, etc in RA and the results aren't good. The only reasonable heals available to you then are:

Heal Other (can't heal yourself, high energy cost)
Healing Breeze (regen-based healing, high energy cost)
Gift of Health (good heal but does not heal for much, and cannot self-target)
Patient Spirit (good heal but does not heal for much)
Mending Touch (good heal but you can't use it on allies easily, nor can you use it without conditions)
Dismiss Condition (good heal but does not heal for much)

Not to mention all these other heals pale in efficiency compared to WoH / ZB.

My verdict: Monks have to run either WoH or ZB in RA / TA / AB, or if they are very brave Blessed Light and similar rare builds like Boon Prot, because if they do not they can't keep up with the massive damage. Neither Life Sheath nor RC works, and a comparison between the two based on RA / TA makes no sense.

I'm leaning towards RC at the moment. Reversal of Fortune may be very good and Life Sheath makes it even better, but RC heals for a lot in addition to removing all conditions. Removing even a single condition is over a hundred health healed. Life Sheath cannot make red bars go up (it can stop red bars from going down, but not make red bars go up), but RC can.

That said, Life Sheath has obvious advantages: 1/4 second cast allows you to remove Cripple from Palm Strike before the Sin can use Trampling Ox, makes you impossible to interrupt / Power Block, and you can use it to remove Deep Wound off spikes quickly (although you still have to cast Spirit Bond first). It's a good buff to Life Sheath, gives more options at least.