Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 20, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Palm strike isn't 123456, it's more like 123415!

FoxBat · Dec 20, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Lower damage/cripple a ton (at least half), 2s recharge, "all your (other) off-hand attacks are disabled for 20 seconds." High recharge and rigid attack chains are a large part of what makes the class boring, letting people use duals whenever they want at the cost of lame spike ability is probably about as interesting as the class is going to get at this stage.

Lourens · Dec 20, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I need to be nuked down to earth

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

I think decent players can all agree that in it's current state, palm strike builds are too easy to get kills with.
Also, people need to stop discussing with this kid cytheria, he's just a baddie that will never learn.

or maybe my points are just indisputable.

Quote:

- check if you have antimelee hexes
- check if you are blind
- check if target is blocking above 50%
- check if target is heavily protted or has big armor buffs
- target prioritization
- timing attack skills (evading interrupts, waiting for key skills of target before kding it, etc)
- watch health. know when to run.
- watch energy (ex: dont do trampling at 5e or you cant followup falling, can you do the full combe, etc)
- watch positioning (dont get yourself ganked. with or without shadowsteps.)
...just like any melee.
but this is unique to sins...
- make sure your attack skill's condition is met before doing it

do they, or do they not have to do these, like any melee?

Quote:

She makes nice squirting movies though!

lol yeah i wish i could change my forum name.

id prefer you all called me Shinde.

moriz · Dec 20, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

or maybe my points are just indisputable.

only because you are too thick to realize that it has been disputed. 6 pages back.

of course, you can just bury your head in the sand and "define" your points are indisputable.

Quote:

you're like a cover band's broken record that just keeps on playing (unfortunately).
you all keep spewing the same shit like they are facts. stuff your obtuse opinions back down your pieholes.

take your own advice.

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 20, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

- check if you have antimelee hexes: Palm Strike is a touch skill, not an attack skill. Mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.
- check if you are blind: Palm Strike is a touch skill, not an attack skill. Mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.
- check if target is blocking above 50%. Palm Strike is a touch skill, not an attack skill. Mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.
- check if target is heavily protted. Palm Strike goes mostly under most small prots (Shield of Absorption / Shielding Hands / Guardian) and big prots (Protective Spirit, Shield of Deflection, Shield of Regeneration).
- or has big armor buffs. Palm Strike does untyped, armor-ignoring damage. Mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.
- target prioritization. Typically involves the aforementioned. As the aforementioned is a non-factor, mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.
- timing attack skills (evading interrupts, waiting for key skills of target before kding it, etc). Any part of your chain except Palm Strike disrupted? Mash Palm Strike.
- watch health. know when to run. Mash Palm Strike, run away.
- watch energy (ex: dont do trampling at 5e or you cant followup falling, can you do the full combe, etc). Critical Strikes, auto for five seconds. Idiots kite under Palm Strike regularly so you autocrit anyways.
- watch positioning (dont get yourself ganked. with or without shadowsteps.)
...just like any melee. Mash Palm Strike, run away.
- make sure your attack skill's condition is met before doing it. Any part of your chain except Palm Strike disrupted? Mash Palm Strike, condition met.

lol Palm Strike, lol Guild Wars. pz

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

hahaaa good one, i lold.

i was talking about sin gameplay in general though.

but you probably knew that.

75 damage isnt much, in the grand scheme of things.

Captain Robo · Dec 20, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I played palm strike before it was cool.

Jeydra · Dec 20, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Fixed. Bull's Strike is a conditional knockdown, which you will really want to use before you spike. Shock has this thing called "exhaustion". Frenzy has the double damage which can hurt you. Adrenaline means that if you're being kited or blocked you can't execute.

Energy attacks are far different.

Correction: Bull's Strike as a skill is used whenever the Warrior using it feels it will meet the condition and knockdown. Whether it's used immediately before a spike, or immediately after, or on approach, changes with situation and what the Warrior knows of his target's style of play. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Distracting Shot is an interrupt, therefore if you miss it you've not got the most efficient usage of it. Infact, where do you see Rangers pressing 123456? Assassins use a combo, therefore if you miss with it you've lost out on it completely, but there's no escaping that because you don't need to do more than roll your head against the keyboard. The same can be said for prots; Assassins just need to pick a target, prevail their combo or fail it, doing near nothing for a while, while Monks are far more active - infact, when do you see Monks pressing 123456?

Sure Rangers press (or used to press) 123456. Simple example: (pre-nerf) Expert's Dexterity -> Read The Wind -> Sloth Hunter's Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> Savage Shot.

And I'll say this as well, I have nothing against 123456. I think nerfing Sins or any similar build because they are 'just' 123456 is not a reason. Some builds are easier to play than others (eg. Warriors are easier to play than Monks or Mesmers), that is a fact of life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Palm Strike is a touch skill, not an attack skill. Mash Palm Strike, do 75 damage.

75 damage every 4 seconds, that is a blazing 18.75 DPS.

ensoriki · Dec 20, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

hahaaa good one, i lold.

i was talking about sin gameplay in general though.

but you probably knew that.

75 damage isnt much, in the grand scheme of things.

75 untyped armor ignoring, cannot be blinded or blocked damage on a 4 second timer for only 5 energy, and it activates in less than a second.
That also gives you teh cripple for 13 seconds.
I don't hate palm, but it's synergy for triple Duals is like 0_o.
Also Palm would be much cooler if that Cripple happened if the foe was moving...just saying..

Iotan · Dec 20, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

And I'll say this as well, I have nothing against 123456. I think nerfing Sins or any similar build because they are 'just' 123456 is not a reason. Some builds are easier to play than others (eg. Warriors are easier to play than Monks or Mesmers), that is a fact of life.

Pretty much everything you say here is either stupid or wrong. 123456 is what breaks game balance. When terrible players are just as affective as good players then game balance doesn't exist. And if you'd ever played high end PvP you'd know that a good strat calling Warrior is probably the most rare thing in the game...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

75 damage every 4 seconds, that is a blazing 18.75 DPS.

So by your logic, Flare should be elite? Get this-some skills have other effects too, like a spammable cripple that leads into an instagib chain!

Xsiriss · Dec 21, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

High recharge and rigid attack chains are a large part of what makes the class boring, letting people use duals whenever they want at the cost of lame spike ability is probably about as interesting as the class is going to get at this stage.

Yes. For the love of god yes. Sins became useable,so what. Now they can do what they were designed to do and in come the Q.Q's and more, a class became useable deal with it. To satisfy these conservative/elitist pricks sure make it 10e or slightly less damage/cripple time, but leave the godam recharge time alone. I hope anet open up more chain possibilities, this has been one of their best buffs ever.

On to those complaining of the sheer 1337tness of the spikes, start taking anti melee, you know what to expect therefore adapt instead of going 'oh noes I got killed by a sin', they're squishy anyway with a wel timed d-shot or blind destroying it. There's no need for all these facts and figures, stop taking the fun out of guild wars.

12charflawlessvictory

Kwisatz_Haderach · Dec 21, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Yes. For the love of god yes. Sins became useable,so what. Now they can do what they were designed to do and in come the Q.Q's and more, a class became useable deal with it. To satisfy these conservative/elitist pricks sure make it 10e or slightly less damage/cripple time, but leave the godam recharge time alone. I hope anet open up more chain possibilities, this has been one of their best buffs ever.

On to those complaining of the sheer 1337tness of the spikes, start taking anti melee, you know what to expect therefore adapt instead of going 'oh noes I got killed by a sin', they're squishy anyway with a wel timed d-shot or blind destroying it. There's no need for all these facts and figures, stop taking the fun out of guild wars.

12charflawlessvictory

incase you didn't notice palm strike is unaffected by anti-melee. look a few posts up and you will see why. also it is a 3/4 sec cast time which is surprisingly difficult to interrupt unless your right up in their grill.

I maybe delusional, but every other time in ra i get spiked down by someone
running a palm striker, I typically get z-ranked and said palm striker yells, "I Pwned you, Noob!!!" It's almost like they think they are 1337.

Forgotton200 · Dec 21, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

incase you didn't notice palm strike is unaffected by anti-melee. look a few posts up and you will see why. also it is a 3/4 sec cast time which is surprisingly difficult to interrupt unless your right up in their grill.

I maybe delusional, but every other time in ra i get spiked down by someone
running a palm striker, I typically get z-ranked and said palm striker yells, "I Pwned you, Noob!!!" It's almost like they think they are 1337.

I just made a assassin, if I press 1-2-3-4-5-etc.etc., I'm 1337 right? So I heard this game takes skills to play. I'm not seeing it.

ensoriki · Dec 21, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

I just made a assassin, if I press 1-2-3-4-5-etc.etc., I'm 1337 right? So I heard this game takes skills to play. I'm not seeing it.

Run
Disrupting Stab/some other lead, Exhausting assault, Moebius Strike, Critical Strike/some other Dual, Wild blow, Dash, some skill of your choice, some skill of your choice/res.

To be more epic, replace moebius with Palm strike..to see what Palm does to this build, makes it more spikish, and adds cripple.

YA OMFG crappy build (says some dude here...though it's 1 of my favs)...

Builds that take skill to play are usually ineffective because A-net won't make them have enough bang for their buck.

Kwisatz_Haderach · Dec 21, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

alright heres my 2 cents:

I kinda like the idea behind palm strike's buff at first it seems like an alternative to mobieus with the addition of cripple to keep the foe within range of the sin's attack chain.

However, what it is being applied in general melee is a 1-2-3-4-1-5 attack chain, to put it simple it allows the sin to have 9 skills instead of 8 with the addition of ateast 1 (maybe 2) extra dual attacks. No class no matter what should have that advantage. This is ignoring the fact that palm strike completely avoids any normal anti-melee and most anti-spell counters.

The skill in its current state needs a tone down to increase counters to it. For example either remove the cripple all together, increase the energy to 10, or increase the recharge to 8 secs.

That being said as more weeks pass this looks more and more like it is going to be the assassin's version of wounding strike: completely overpowered compared to everything else in their line, but the only thing that gets that proffesion played; therefore, it will remain unnerfed.

ensoriki · Dec 21, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

If a warrior puts 5 attack skills on his bar and spams them in order he'd do some pretty beastly damage as well >.>
By that I mean 5 skills that do + damage...not disrupting chop + fodder.

Wastrels, Palm and MoI are all good right now, it's not simply Palm strike Kwisatz.

Marverick · Dec 21, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

incase you didn't notice palm strike is unaffected by anti-melee. look a few posts up and you will see why. also it is a 3/4 sec cast time which is surprisingly difficult to interrupt unless your right up in their grill.

I maybe delusional, but every other time in ra i get spiked down by someone
running a palm striker, I typically get z-ranked and said palm striker yells, "I Pwned you, Noob!!!" It's almost like they think they are 1337.

If you're dyin gin RA then... maybe you should stop running 500hp?

While monking in AB/CM/RA Palm Strike sins are the least threatening... Palm Strike -> Trampling Ox -> Fallling whatever -> insert any dual here isn't enough to kill. By the time the sin gets impale off I'll have an RoF to turn it into a 100hp health gain.
The only way they can guarantee kill is to add the other falling and horns of the ox, which makes for an unwieldy bar full of attack skills and no room for utility, aka fail.

They can't use Blades of Steel effectively because Palm Strike isn't an attack; to make Palm Strike an attack would make Palm Strike sins more powerful.

However I think a suitable adjustment would be to make the cripple application either while target foe is activating a skill or while target foe is not moving (or while is moving? but leaping mantis already does that).

Aerial Assault · Dec 21, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i made my point ages ago: palm strike should keep its current functionality but should have an 8 second recharge, purely because it has the unprecedented ability to not only skip a lead once, but skip it TWICE. having a single skill lead off two dual attacks in one combo, while providing high damage AND a long cripple, is overpowered. plain and simple.

the other alternative is, to keep the short recharge, but lose the cripple. take your pick, the skill can't have both.

lastly before i put your face back on the ignore list: i never bother to sound intelligent on forums, especially about a game that i really don't care for anymore. now, if you REALLY want to argue about game balance, i can outdo you any day of the week. after all, it's not like YOU had anything intelligent to say.

What a moron, if you had bothered to even read what a I wrote my stance on Palm Strike is the same as yours (requires dmg/recharge nerf), why you decided to (unsuccessfully) troll me is what remains in question. Actually not really, your hate for sins is so blind and transparent that even if I make the slightest applause about the buff you come right back to spew your tireless unintelligent garbage once again.

Who the hell do you think you're trying to convince anyway? Certainly not me, so go ahead and check me off from the fan-boy listing k? I promise I wont cry about it.

What I have been trying to say is that the update was good, that creating more options of play sin is great, but should not remain unchecked. As far as sins being holistically overpowered ? Nope I don't think so, for reasons I have stated in my previous post.

Whether that is intelligent or not is subjective and is certainly up for debate considering I am not alone in this opinion. As far as being able to "outdo" me in an argument, that's a laugh, you have no premise I've not already read before from Ensign. It's cool bro, you don't even care anyway right? It really shows....

Aerial Assault · Dec 21, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

You speak of reintroducing a class that is broken in design to begin with as a good thing.

Im sorry, they are broken once again HOW exactly?

Before the update they were almost non existent in GvG play, and as for the issue of Palm Strike you can skip, I am aware of cripple+dmg spam it is capable of, and for the 2384092934 time, that while I am in support of its change in functionality, I am also in agreement that it needs a dmg/recharge nerf.

It's funny that during the era of Last Pride no one ever bothered to bitch about them when AoD shadow-stepping was so prevalent. That was actually thee main premise of Ensign's disapproval of them was it not?
The other was their ability to insta-gib, which should be a non issue, because honestly am not seeing that in the latest mATs -- they face the same struggles warriors do in trying to kill a target, if not even more so.

Quote:

I rather see classes with skilled play than this type of "diversity"

Ok so what else other than Warriors for front line then? Dervs? ...lol.

I'd also like to take this time to comment...Warrior's Endurance Wars = Pressure via button mash bonanza? Oh noez, are they on their way to becoming the next "low-skill-requirement-needed-to-play" class? Perhaps, but at least they've still a myriad of other viable builds they can run.

See why diversity = gud ?

Btw, loved DM's lineup for mAT's, is it original? Could have sworn I've seen it somewhere else. So sexy though [rawr]!

Quote:

We have been. It's just sin threads attract the most clueless naruto fans so it's the most discussed.

Well, whatever, unoriginal overzealous Ensign fan-boys unable to adapt to change are on other side of the coin (you know who you are).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

It benefits you because you want a game with broken aspects all over.

Yes because my defense of the addition of other classes in game (particularly sins) means I want a game with "broken aspects all over".

Am I supposed to take this guy seriously or wut? Not even going to bother responding to that except with this:

"Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience. " -you should know from who