Curse

Gforce · Dec 02, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Lots of text and:
If you think this is wrong, or just don't understand how I can hold such an opinion, then I'd be willing to wager that you are terrible at Risk.

/win

I like playing risk.

Killed u man · Dec 02, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

There is a flaw in this thought. Even after a team can no longer meet the winning conditions, they are still present in the game.

Back in the old days people had much better tactics in 3 way battles. Now a days people talk much more trash, knock a team out early in the match, then complain when they got ganked.

Its reap what you sow. If a team gets knocked out (no longer able to win) early in the match, there is now a wild card. If your team is largely responsible for them being knocked out, then you are about to reap what was sewn. In days past teams tried hard to keep every team in the game until the end for this very reason.

"Don't aggro other teams." is something a few people I played with used to say. On old KotH matches when it became a standoff he would yell at anyone that sent a stray spell or arrow into another team. It wasn't just because of spike builds prolific at the time. I have seen teams get set off and go on to full gank just because one ranger sent some poison, or one stray AoE spell.

The losing team determins who wins. But the winning teams determine who is the losing team. Be one of the winning teams, but don't be the one that sets off the losing team.

If you think this is wrong, or just don't understand how I can hold such an opinion, then I'd be willing to wager that you are terrible at Risk.

Agreed. It IS the winning teams that decide who gets kicked out, USUALLY.

On a cap points map, when 2 Rspikes alternativly hold the center, whilst a third heroway doesn't manage to cap it (cuz their ghostly keeps getting spiked down by either rspike), they will end up in let's say a 12-12-6 situation.
Now, who will they gank? Will they resign out? Unlikely, because they didn't win and are frustrated. Assuming they can still hold 2 bases till the end of the match, they can still win, but it's REALLY unlikely as a heroway. They now became your 'wild card' without anyone explicitly ganking them. The winning chances for either rspike is now COMPLETELY RANDOM.

I don't know about you, but PvP isn't called PvP when it's random. I don't know what it is called, but definatly not competitive PvP.

There's a flaw in your reasoning. It's NOT always a team that's puts the loosing team out of winning position. Also imagine a heroway with no speed boost on Relic Run...

Do you expect BOTH teams to "slow" down to the paste of the heroway?

Even so, how is that any form of PvP at all anymore? 'Having your enemy keep up with you', that's not PvP, that's the complete oposite.
Instead of "beating" your enemy, you're giving him a hand, in order for him not to gank u.

PvP (HA) was about bare fist fights, 3 or more -way, where 1 team came out victor. Now, it's some random shithole where a random team wins, an overpowered build gives u larger, but still random, numerical chance of winning, and ganks are more rule than exception.

Reverend Dr · Dec 02, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Agreed. It IS the winning teams that decide who gets kicked out, USUALLY.

No always, stop complaining because you are bad at risk.

Quote:

The winning chances for either rspike is now COMPLETELY RANDOM.

RSPIKE!!!!!!!

You are completely ignoring the most important thing, the entire game. At the 12-12-6 point the heroway would most likely gank the team they perceive as having the most influence upon them losing (i.e. pissed them off the most) or the team they have an existing grudge with (constantly being the team that pissed them off). This is not random, it is your job as part of a 3-way battle, to not be that team.

Quote:

There's a flaw in your reasoning. It's NOT always a team that's puts the loosing team out of winning position. Also imagine a heroway with no speed boost on Relic Run...

Do you expect BOTH teams to "slow" down to the paste of the heroway?

YES I DO! Not slow themselves, but leave the heroway unmolested and focus entirely upon the other team. If you can't slow their team down to a relic capping speed slower than an unmolested team without a speed boost, you weren't winning anyway.

Quote:

PvP (HA) was about bare fist fights, 3 or more -way, where 1 team came out victor. Now, it's some random shithole where a random team wins, an overpowered build gives u larger, but still random, numerical chance of winning, and ganks are more rule than exception.

You never played HA back in the day did you? The only thing that really has changed is that you can no longer heavy hand the opposition every match with a holding build, the base tactics are the same as ever "don't aggro the other team." Seriously let go of "RANDOM CHANCE," it is an incorrect idea. Keep saying random chance when you keep losing 3-way's. 3-ways have political elements, not just what happens in that match, also what has happened in other matches, who your friends are, who your enemies are, who you upset on online forums, or who just ticked you off (interrupt camping, linebacking, quarterknocking, anything). Calling the political aspect "RANDOM CHANCE" is not allowing for any personal improvement.

Reverend Dr · Dec 02, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Addendum: "Random Chance" and Heroes

It can often seem that heroes may jump on your team at "random." It is also very important to know how hero AI works (you are playing against it, thinking you shouldn't have know hero AI is completely backwards). Heros usually are not effectively microed in HA, so they either target their owner's current target or a close target. Then again usually players have a tendancy to target other "close" targets anyway. Don't open yourself up for c-spacing, which has always been a good rule anyway. Less likely to get "RANDOMLY" targeted by heros, less likely to be targeted by a hero owner, less likely to be binded as a heros target, less likely to be targeted by their whole team.

The more you open yourself up for this the more likely you are to be sandwiched, which is a position you don't want to be in. This type of movement was much more obvious back in the days of kill count, where matches would be whole team movements trying to avoid and create sandwich opportunities. This has always applied in HA, but was just much more obvious on kill count.

Killed u man · Dec 02, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

You are completely ignoring the most important thing, the entire game. At the 12-12-6 point the heroway would most likely gank the team they perceive as having the most influence upon them losing (i.e. pissed them off the most) or the team they have an existing grudge with (constantly being the team that pissed them off). This is not random, it is your job as part of a 3-way battle, to not be that team.

So what you're saying is you should give up your own points, and give it to the Heroway, giving the third team carte blanche on how they play (they can do whatever they want, concidering YOUR team is already making sure the hway doesn't get behind and gank).

Once again, that's is NOT fair, it's NOT fun, and it most definatly is NOT what HA was before...

Quote:

YES I DO! Not slow themselves, but leave the heroway unmolested and focus entirely upon the other team. If you can't slow their team down to a relic capping speed slower than an unmolested team without a speed boost, you weren't winning anyway.

So you find it fair someone ganks for "not" snaring the third team? Well, so much for logic in this threadzzzz.

Quote:

You never played HA back in the day did you? The only thing that really has changed is that you can no longer heavy hand the opposition every match with a holding build, the base tactics are the same as ever "don't aggro the other team." Seriously let go of "RANDOM CHANCE," it is an incorrect idea. Keep saying random chance when you keep losing 3-way's. 3-ways have political elements, not just what happens in that match, also what has happened in other matches, who your friends are, who your enemies are, who you upset on online forums, or who just ticked you off (interrupt camping, linebacking, quarterknocking, anything). Calling the political aspect "RANDOM CHANCE" is not allowing for any personal improvement.

Then by your definition, nothing is random, and random chance is something that doesn't exists, cuz everything is affected by you in some way. If you wanna take it down to such a childish form of arguement, that's cool, but then just stop posting, and let SRS posters do the talking...

Reverend Dr · Dec 03, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

You have been and still are completely missing the point. The point is to NOT BE the team that gets ganked. I'm trying to explain how to not be that team, but you just want to keep saying WAAAAH I GOT GANKED AND ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!

I'm not saying random doesn't exist, but the things you are calling random are things that you and your team well have power over.

You are eqivocating between addressing the questions "Should the current format be changed?" and "How do I excell at the current format?" The former is a matter of opinion and has been discussed in many ways at many times. However, this thread is about "ganking" in the context of the current system of HA. I am offering general advice on how to deal with the 3-way nature of halls, you are saying that the 3-way nature is undesirable. While on its own your comment is not invalid, it is certainly not a counterargument to anything I have said, nor is it any way constructive for this thread.

You don't like current HA conditions, fine. I am quite positive that you are the only player in the entire history of Guild Wars to find the current HA system even slightly less than ideal. This thread is not about one's ideas for HA's improvement, but about the current state and hopefully one's improvement at HA.

So far I have addressed only the political nature and tried to give advice to avoid being ganked in the first place. Here is what you do when you are getting ganked:
1. Do nothing and never improve
2. Complain (we are not talking about a hypothetical change to HA, we are talking about the current system, so see #1)
3. Figure out why you got ganked.
As far as the current match goes, there isn't all that much that can be done if you are receiving a gank, the best you can do is prepare for the future. Don't try to figure out why they ganked, figure out why they ganked YOU. First look at the match: was your team riding the ganking team harder than the winning team, what was said in local, was your team training their strat caller? Next look at all the teams compositions: who was on your team, the ganking team, the winning team? Was this a gank for a friend, or was this a gank of an enemy? Was this a gank for something that happened in an earlier match, a 1v1 earlier, a match from days ago, a GvG? Sometimes it is an easy question to answer, sometimes it is incredibly difficult, but you have to try to figure out why your team got ganked and not the other team. I'm not saying go completely crazy trying to figure the political aspect out, but don't completely ignore it either.

Killed u man · Dec 04, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I'm not saying random doesn't exist, but the things you are calling random are things that you and your team well have power over.

You have power over everything. If I get ganked because I'm a "ritspiker", how is that a fair gank? Maybe I should "stop" being a ritspiker, but I can't, concidering people STILL gank me for a build I ran 1 year ago. Ok, that's cool, I got more fame than all thos people together, but that, once again, doesn't make it "fair" for me to get ganked.
Or how about teams ganking because they want to help the other team (that's in their alliance), are you saying you have a magical button on your screen that removes both of them from the same alliance, and makes them forget they are friends? What is this mind-controlling device you speak off, and please, can U get it cheap at Best Buy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You don't like current HA conditions, fine. I am quite positive that you are the only player in the entire history of Guild Wars to find the current HA system even slightly less than ideal. This thread is not about one's ideas for HA's improvement, but about the current state and hopefully one's improvement at HA.

The Poll here in Guru where people could vote for either:
-> Current HoH Conditions
-> Revert to Old-School
-> Some last option which I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure it was
something amongst the lines of: "I don't care, HA is dead anyways".

CLEARLY showed people prefered old-school more. (It was like 60-80% for old-school, if I recall correct, and only like 12-13% for current conditions)
Also, let the numbers speak for themselves. We BARELY have 2 districts now, and ALL you see is heroways, and/or other farming builds, with the sole purpose of FARMING FAME. People don't play for fun anymore, or atleast 99.9% of the community doesn't, you can ask anyone you want. The first thing people ask when U ask them to join running a new build: "Will it win?", translated from HA-orion to plain English: "Will I get alot of fame without having to do much?".
If you find a random chance of winning fun, I have another fun game for you:

Grab a deck of cards, some friends and unbiased medium (a dog, machine, anything "random").
Now have that medium "give" each player a card (just lay all card on the floor, face down and have the dog, e.g., select a card for each player somehow)
Once everyone has his own card, you turn it around and show it to eachother. Whoever has the highest number wins!!!!! If people have the same number (J=11, Q=12, K=13, A=1), you go to the suits. (Harts > Spades > Clovers > Diamonds)
Sounds insane fun? I know, and you can repeat it as many times as you want!!!!

People liked old-school holding more, I doubt anyone will disagree on that one. Some people like to eat sheit, yet I think it's safe to say that the large community, the bigger part of the world, DOESN'T like to eat sheit. The fact that noone does so prooves this.
It's the same in HA, once again, let the number of districts, and people who left HA, speak for itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Here is what you do when you are getting ganked:
1. Do nothing and never improve
2. Complain (we are not talking about a hypothetical change to HA, we are talking about the current system, so see #1)
3. Figure out why you got ganked.

1. What am I expect to do? I am yet working on my Guild Wars hack, so I can use the skill "Prevent Gank", and cast it on me and my team.
It's hard to improve when you're already one of the best teams in HA. (Dent)
2. Yes, I got shot in my leg, but I won't complain, it was my bad, I'll go back to working in the field now. I'll also give the guy who shot me some money, so he can buy some more bullets.
WHY CAN'T I COMPLAIN?
I keep loosing HoH because of bad design. Bad design is an understatement, concidering the VERY BASE of a Competitive PvP game is a FAIR system. HA is far from, and would thus fall under the category: "Seriously Flawed Games, aboid at all cost".
3. Well, if you want a list:

-Spartan: Becuase I capped the altar first when he said: "Whoever caps the altar first gets ganked", and I figured he was joking.
-[eXe ] (The contagionwayers): Because we beat them in underworld, flawless in 1 minute, and they said: Backbreaker nabs. So when they skipped to HoH from UW, they ganked us as a payback for rolling them too fast.
-Amazon: Because I'm a ritspiker.
-rawr: Because they didn't care about winning, and decided to gank the HA nabs.
-random heroway X: because we beat them in a previous match, and they want revenge.
-random team X: because we beat them in a previous match, and they want revenge.
-Ralaj: For calling him a "thumper" in HA ID1 in a discussion in All-Chat that happened a few days/weeks before.
-...

Ok, Oh Mighty One, now tell me how to I stop these ganks from happening? You got it all figured out, please let your eternal light of wisdom shine upon me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

As far as the current match goes, there isn't all that much that can be done if you are receiving a gank, the best you can do is prepare for the future. Don't try to figure out why they ganked, figure out why they ganked YOU. First look at the match: was your team riding the ganking team harder than the winning team, what was said in local, was your team training their strat caller? Next look at all the teams compositions: who was on your team, the ganking team, the winning team? Was this a gank for a friend, or was this a gank of an enemy? Was this a gank for something that happened in an earlier match, a 1v1 earlier, a match from days ago, a GvG? Sometimes it is an easy question to answer, sometimes it is incredibly difficult, but you have to try to figure out why your team got ganked and not the other team. I'm not saying go completely crazy trying to figure the political aspect out, but don't completely ignore it either.[/

As one, maybe THE, most experiencer player in HA, I make sure I NEVER take out a team before-hand. I NEVER train someone, unlike some other people, I'm NOT bad.

I love how you're trying to find a "tactical" reason behind the gank. It's plain and simple: human behaviour.
I get ganked because of jealousy (Serious, a team once joined after a HoH skip from UW, we were alrdy holding for 8-9 times, and they said: Well you've been holding long enough now, bye), because I'm better (Amazon, Bongo), because they don't like [Dent] for playing lame builds (Yeah, BBway is lame, but Rspike isn't? o.0)

Ganking ALONE is a reason to throw both capture points AND relic run in the trashbin, by far the best spot for them to be at...

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 04, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

It's not necessarily the best team that gets ganked. Often it's because of a personal vendetta or because one team doesn't think they can win, so they help out their friends.

It's just a natural occurrence, playing on three way maps.

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, winning halls is 1/3 luck/buildwars, 1/3 skill, and 1/3 who you know.

pretty much sums up the thread gg

Reverend Dr · Dec 04, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

people STILL gank me for a build I ran 1 year ago.

I got more fame than all thos people together,

CLEARLY showed people prefered old-school more. (It was like 60-80% for old-school, if I recall correct, and only like 12-13% for current conditions)
Also, let the numbers speak for themselves, I cannot catch blantantly obvious sarcasm.

It's hard to improve when you're already one of the best teams in HA. (Dent)

As one, maybe THE, most experiencer player in HA, I make sure I NEVER take out a team before-hand. I NEVER train someone, unlike some other people, I'm NOT bad.

I get ganked because of jealousy

because I'm better

because they don't like [Dent]

12 characters

Ramod · Dec 05, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

[Dent]? Who? Best? What?

Zenos Squad · Dec 05, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramod

[Dent]? Who? Best? What?

You're added to ganklist.

Scf Blacknight · Dec 05, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

As far as ganking is concerned. Most people do it for personal issues with somebody on the ganked team. Some do it because they find it entertaining to gank (i.e Me). Some do it because they know they cant win, so they pick a team to drag down with them.
Who cares? This has been happening since forever, why the sudden QQ-fest over it? Maybe your personal rep has caught up with you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

As one, maybe THE, most experiencer player in HA,........unlike some other people, I'm NOT bad.

This is an example of why people gank you. You are essentially saying you are better than most, if not all, players in HA. You are begging for people to toss you off the pedestal you have placed yourself on.
Personally, I wouldnt put you over some of the other people i've played with from [Dent], much less one of the best in the game.

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 05, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenos Squad

You're added to ganklist.

you are on my ganklist.

II Lucky Charm II · Dec 05, 2008, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Ganking is the only fun thing to do in HoH now. The only purpose for me to even play HA these days is to prevent others from gaining fame, which of course is extremely fun. For those, who are r3/6+, the more you gank the slower other people will get to r9. So, do you know what that means? It's easier for you guys to find groups! Now, if you guys see any well known Guilds or people, just go ahead and gank them. Why gank? It's fun and it also slow them down from getting what they want (gold + fame?).

shoogi · Dec 05, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I basically said that in a post that got deleted because of unnecessary flames against some player (not borat)(come on mods nothing I said wasn't true), so I'll say it more to the point-

Borat, I don't know you personally, and I'll agree that you are not a bad player, but your behavior, attitude and character are of the type that invites ganks sometimes, at least as it shows up on Guru.

Skyros · Dec 05, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by II Lucky Charm II

Ganking is the only fun thing to do in HoH now. The only purpose for me to even play HA these days is to prevent others from gaining fame, which of course is extremely fun. For those, who are r3/6+, the more you gank the slower other people will get to r9. So, do you know what that means? It's easier for you guys to find groups! Now, if you guys see any well known Guilds or people, just go ahead and gank them. Why gank? It's fun and it also slow them down from getting what they want (gold + fame?).

u know who else tried to justify being a douche bag? hitler.
ty for your input, mein fuhrer, you're one of the many things wrong with HA and also proves my point of ha players being scum.

shoogi · Dec 05, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I'm not defending what he said, but Skyros, that analogy brings you into a whole new level of stupidity, even in this forum.

LifesRestorer · Dec 05, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

yeah what you said is like branding Team Shitter forums as the shining light of GvGers.

Moving on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scf Blacknight

This is an example of why people gank you. You are essentially saying you are better than most, if not all, players in HA. You are begging for people to toss you off the pedestal you have placed yourself on.
Personally, I wouldnt put you over some of the other people i've played with from [Dent], much less one of the best in the game.

QFT

No one would give a shit if you didn't say stuff like this, but with the arrogant remarks, true or false you set yourself up as the bad guy.

Kyp Jade · Dec 05, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

people gank borat because he is borat

also, this whole thread is full of fail, ganking is tombz, tombz is ganking. Dont complain about it.

The Arching Healer · Dec 05, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Ganking HA elitists is actually fun because they think GW is srs bsns. Cant believe they get mad and rage in real life because they got ganked in HoH.

lolgw

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